Jury Finds Both Apple and Samsung Guilty of Patent Infringement, Samsung to Pay $119.6 Million, Apple to Pay $158,400

[zipa]

Any premium ones? No. Samsung makes only two premium phones, Galaxy and the Note. Both are significantly larger than 4"

They make the "mini" versions of the Galaxy S-line. Sure, they are 4,3", I'll give you that...

Also, given that there are about 1000 different Samsung phones (947 according to GSMArena), I'd say they are doing the diversification-thingy quite all right. I do not think that they would have any issue with going for phone number 948 if they would see such a high demand for a < 4" flagship phone.

Given the fact that they don't just strengthens my suspicions that people buy iPhones despite the screen size, not because of it. I sure know that me and wife did.

 

[aohus]

lol $120 million is nothing for Samsung.

 

[RobertoCravallo]

all i know, large screen phones exist solely because of the oems inability to keep up with apple

NOT!!! Maybe because users actually want larger screens. If your eyesight is perfect for a small screen, buy it. Let people that want a large screen have that.

So all the people that bought SAMSUM S phones only bought them because they could not afford APPLES much smaller screens, right?

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maybe you should install adblock?

no, more along the lines of this

Image

That is exactly what my REAL wallet looks like. Will I be sued now?

 

[BvizioN]

That is exactly what my REAL wallet looks like. Will I be sued now?

Did you create it? No, didn't think so. You bought it

 

[RobertoCravallo]

im not talking about judicial review. im talking about my review, more precisely, my eyes review.

The funny thing is, that a lot of contributers here seem to think that consumers can't tell the difference between a APPLE and SAMSUNG product if they are "similar"! I don't think that there is one person that bought a SAMSUNG by "mistake" because the box is similar.

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Did you create it? No, didn't think so. You bought it

I was trying to make the point, that the app probably looks that way, because wallets in real life do.

And microphones tend to look a lot alike too. It just because that's they way they are. In my opinion the APPLE microphone is much "prettier" and SAMSUNGS looks nothing like it!

 

[bsolar]

Hence the patent was granted for "a vacuum tube containing a tungsten filament that glows when heated by electrons passing through it", not for a "round glowing thingy".

It's a little more complex than that: the original patent was about a vacuum tube containing a platinum wire, and was in 1841, and not Edison's. In the following years the big deal was trying to find a better filament to make the lightbulb last, and that was Edison's contribution: his original filament was carbon with platinum connectors. Tungsten lightbulbs came 40 years later...

Anyway the point is that even in the lightbulb's case it's difficult to isolate a single inventor: almost all patents are improvements of existing prior art. On top of that it's difficult to decide whether a patent is actually valid or not: in Edison's case a 6-years long legal battle led first to the revocation and then to the confirmation of its improvements' patentability. And the legal battle stopped only because he and his antagonist decided to join venture instead of keeping litigating.

Basically, patents are a mess and always were: software patents even more so.

 

[BvizioN]

I was trying to make the point, that the app probably looks that way, because wallets in real life do.

I got that! But the other guy was making a point too and in my opinion you have to be blind or ignorant to not see that there is a mimic on the way Samsung did implement their wallet (just like lot of other stuff) Gee, I mean I am really rubbish at graphic designs but I think I could come up myself with a dozen of different ways to do it.

I am not hating Samsung! I am using their products and realizing they are good, but I also think that Samsung does try hard to mimic Apple.

 

[bsolar]

Any premium ones? No. Samsung makes only two premium phones, Galaxy and the Note. Both are significantly larger than 4".

I tried to explain the reason here.

 

[RobertoCravallo]

Come on now, if your going to post stuff, at least get it right!


http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/17/samsung-dyson-vacuum-cleaner-patent-copyright

Good one Dave. And it just proves again, that all "proof" that is presented in this forum is to be accepted with a grain of salt. There are most always two sides to these things.

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They included it 7 years ago?

Of course! Read this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/08/t...-stifle-competition.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

Nice quote in it for you "As a result, some patents are so broad that they allow patent holders to claim sweeping ownership of seemingly unrelated products built by others. Often, companies are sued for violating patents they never knew existed or never dreamed might apply to their creations, at a cost shouldered by consumers in the form of higher prices and fewer choices."

I rest my case!!!

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Apple's hardly an innocent sheep among wolves when it comes to taking other people's ideas.

Good one. But unfortuanately, most people in this forum choose to ignore articles like that and pound on all non APPLE companies. Go figure...

 

[pjh]

The funny thing is, that a lot of contributers here seem to think that consumers can't tell the difference between a APPLE and SAMSUNG product if they are "similar"! I don't think that there is one person that bought a SAMSUNG by "mistake" because the box is similar.

If only this were true, a little bit of faith in the human race would be restored. Cloning the general appearance and functionality of another device won't fool informed buyers, but many people are not informed.

When I decided to buy an iphone 5s my wife ask why as "those samsung ones are the same and are cheaper". Many, many people are the same. You can't blame them, as their passion is not normally technology and they don't spent hours a day on this kind of site. They judge a product superficially. I'm not having a go at samsung owners here, many apple buyers are the same. They buy an iphone becuase it does "apps and stuff" and "everyone knows they're the best"

My solution was simple, I bought myself and iphone 5s and her a samsung s3. With 3 months the samsung was gone and a new iphone was bought.

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More than just copying. Price fixing with components and product sales. Good read for many to refresh their memories on why Samsung continues and will never stop their M.O.. It works too good and the payoff is worth it to them.

http://www.vanityfair.com/business/2014/06/apple-samsung-smartphone-patent-war

Thats is a very interesting artical, it really changed my opinion of Samsung.

Up until reading that I just assumed Apple and Samsung were as bad as each other. While Apple is by no means innocent, Samsungs entire business model seems to revolve around the deliberate wholesale breach of patents, knowing full well that by the time it's resolved legally, they'll have established themselves as a market player. They seem to use patent infringement as a springboard into markets where they are lacking.

I'd be interested to know other peoples opinions on this artical. Is it really as clear cut as stated?

 

[bsolar]

I'd be interested to know other peoples opinions on this artical. Is it really as clear cut as stated?

In my opinion the most important part of the article is at the end in the conclusions:

One person close to Apple said that the endless fighting has been a drain on the company, both emotionally and financially.

Meanwhile, as has happened with other cases where Samsung violated a company’s patents, it has continued to develop new and better phones throughout the litigation to the point where even some people who have worked with Apple say the Korean company is now a strong competitor on the technology and not just a copycat anymore.

This reinforces my opinion that the patent system has a problem: on paper the idea is very good but in practice it fosters endless litigation, often fails to actually protect inventions' investments and other times protects what is not worthy of protection at all.

Also with the same rationale used by many to "excuse" Apple's alleged collusion and price-fixing in the ebooks market: the end result is actually positive. Samsung's illegal infringements ultimately helped levelling the field against a much stronger competitor and led to a better market.

I disagree with the rationale above, I consider unfair competition to be wrong no matter the "better" outcome on the market, but in the case of patents the risk is to completely block competition through huge patent porfolios covering overly broad claims: either you're ready to a lengthy and incredbily expensive legal battle or you cannot compete at all.

 

[cdmoore74]

If only this were true, a little bit of faith in the human race would be restored. Cloning the general appearance and functionality of another device won't fool informed buyers, but many people are not informed.

When I decided to buy an iphone 5s my wife ask why as "those samsung ones are the same and are cheaper". Many, many people are the same. You can't blame them, as their passion is not normaly technology and they don't spent hours a day on this kind of site. They judge a product superficially. I'm not having a go at samsung owners here, many apple buyers are the same. They buy an iphone becuase it does "apps and stuff" and "everyone knows they're the best"

My solution was simple, I bought myself and iphone 5s and her a samsung s3. With 3 months the samsung was gone and a new iphone was bought.

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Thats is a very interesting artical, it really changed my opinion of Samsung.

Up until reading that I just assumed Apple and Samsung were as bad as each other. While Apple is by no means innocent, Samsungs entire business model seems to made around the deliberate wholesale breach of patents, knowing full well that by the time it's resolved illegally, they'll have established themselves as a market player. They seem to use patent infringement as a springboard into markets where they are lacking.

I'd be interested to know other peoples opinions on this artical. Is it really as clear cut as stated?

I remember getting a HTC Rezound for my wife 2 years ago and I just got tired of her complaining about it. So I found a guy willing to trade a iPhone 4 and everything was fine. I even bought her a iPhone 5 on release day and the only problem was that the battery would not hold a charge after 40 percent. Replaced it myself for $12 and it's good as new. She loves it and the plan is for her to keep it another 2 years.
That being said I don't like iPhones because of the lack of features (screen size being one), limitations of iOS, iTunes and the lack of customization. Anybody that says Android phones are no different than iPhones are not hard-core users and will buy the cheapest phone they can get. I just saw a Samsung S5 commercial yesterday for a free on contract S5 with a free Samsung tablet. Apple is not willing to go down that road. So even if the iPhone 6 is the best phone on the market I would consider it because I want the best but the general population would rather like free stuff no matter how good the iPhone is. How can Apple beat this?

 

[RobertoCravallo]

That being said I don't like iPhones because of the lack of features (screen size being one), limitations of iOS, iTunes and the lack of customization.

If the IPHONE was as perfect as stated in this forum, why are so many of them jailbroken? So obviously, the customers that choose APPLE, don't agree 100% with what they are getting. Changing to ANDROID for me was a choice of a larger screen and a OS without the limitations that APPLE decided for me. I was sick of having to jailbreak my phone everytime I wanted to use a feature that APPLE decided against for me. I did have 4 different IPHONES and am very happy with my S4 now.

 

[pjh]

Anybody that says Android phones are no different than iPhones are not hard-core users and will buy the cheapest phone they can get. I just saw a Samsung S5 commercial yesterday for a free on contract S5 with a free Samsung tablet. Apple is not willing to go down that road. So even if the iPhone 6 is the best phone on the market I would consider it because I want the best but the general population would rather like free stuff no matter how good the iPhone is. How can Apple beat this?

My opinion is that Apple can't beat this and I'd question if they should try. As a result they have a smaller market share than Android, but they make significantly more profits per sale that their competitors. I know it's an extreme example, but should Rolex go after the Swatch market?

In the end I'm glad there is competition, as hopefully it'll promote innovation. But I must admit I am now very uneasy as to how Samsung managed to attain it's current market position. In future I think I'm going to avoid Samsung completely, as I don't like their business model. They seem to have royaly shafted many companies (off which I feel the least sorry for Apple, as at least they are big enough to weather it).

For me, there is no "best phone". It all depends on your uses, what you value and the amount of free money you have. For many people Sansumg products meet all their expectations at an afordable price, thats great for them. But I value what the iphone has to offer and am prepared to may a premium for it.

 

[pjh]

If the IPHONE was as perfect as stated in this forum, why are so many of them jailbroken? So obviously, the customers that choose APPLE, don't agree 100% with what they are getting. Changing to ANDROID for me was a choice of a larger screen and a OS without the limitations that APPLE decided for me. I was sick of having to jailbreak my phone everytime I wanted to use a feature that APPLE decided against for me. I did have 4 different IPHONES and am very happy with my S4 now.

I think it all comes down to your definition of perfect and how people present their arguement. For me the iPhone is perfect, it meets all my needs at a price I'm prepared to pay. But that doesn't mean it's perfect for the next man. Manu people forget that we all have different needs and expectations, which can vairy wildly between people.

I love my iPhone, but I don't take it as an insult if someone thinks it a bag of pish. If they've found something better for them, thats great.

 

[k995]

I remember getting a HTC Rezound for my wife 2 years ago and I just got tired of her complaining about it. So I found a guy willing to trade a iPhone 4 and everything was fine. I even bought her a iPhone 5 on release day and the only problem was that the battery would not hold a charge after 40 percent. Replaced it myself for $12 and it's good as new. She loves it and the plan is for her to keep it another 2 years.
That being said I don't like iPhones because of the lack of features (screen size being one), limitations of iOS, iTunes and the lack of customization. Anybody that says Android phones are no different than iPhones are not hard-core users and will buy the cheapest phone they can get. I just saw a Samsung S5 commercial yesterday for a free on contract S5 with a free Samsung tablet. Apple is not willing to go down that road. So even if the iPhone 6 is the best phone on the market I would consider it because I want the best but the general population would rather like free stuff no matter how good the iPhone is. How can Apple beat this?

If you actually think anyone is giving away smartphones ...

But yes its cheaper, and if people see tha it can do just about the same of an iphone why would they pay more ?

If I wouldnt have an iphone from my company I would have a cheap ass android or WM phone. It can do just about everything I do with the iphone(and I use it pretty extensivly) so why would I spend more ?

 

[pjh]

If I wouldnt have an iphone from my company I would have a cheap ass android or WM phone. It can do just about everything I do with the iphone(and I use it pretty extensivly) so why would I spend more ?

There is no reason why you should. It meets all your needs. Anyone that tells you that you should still buy an iPhone is probably being a snob.

 

[Oletros]

If only this were true, a little bit of faith in the human race would be restored. Cloning the general appearance and functionality of another device won't fool informed buyers, but many people are not informed.

When I decided to buy an iphone 5s my wife ask why as "those samsung ones are the same and are cheaper".

How a Samsung S3 has cloned the appearance and functionality of an iPhone?

 

[maflynn]

All things being equal, for both Apple and Samsung was it worth the lawsuits. Just seems like a terrible waste of money and time.

 

[Oletros]

Anybody that says Android phones are no different than iPhones are not hard-core users and will buy the cheapest phone they can get. I just saw a Samsung S5 commercial yesterday for a free on contract S5 with a free Samsung tablet. Apple is not willing to go down that road. So even if the iPhone 6 is the best phone on the market I would consider it because I want the best but the general population would rather like free stuff no matter how good the iPhone is. How can Apple beat this?

Surprisingly, there are a lot of people that doesn't buy iPhone not because of money or because there are cheaper smartphones, but because there are others OS'es that suits better their needs.

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I think it all comes down to your definition of perfect and how people present their arguement. For me the iPhone is perfect, it meets all my needs at a price I'm prepared to pay. But that doesn't mean it's perfect for the next man. Manu people forget that we all have different needs and expectations, which can vairy wildly between people.

I love my iPhone, but I don't take it as an insult if someone thinks it a bag of pish. If they've found something better for them, thats great.

Exactly this

 

[pjh]

How a Samsung S3 has cloned the appearance and functionality of an iPhone?

Do you really think there is any point in going into a long discussion regarding the Samsung smart phone range and the origin of its building blocks? Neither of us is going to change our mind, so why bother?

Edit: I just re read that reply and it sounds a bit ****y. That wasn't my intention.

 

[Oletros]

Do you really think there is any point in going into a long discussion regarding the Samsung smart phone range and the origin of its building blocks? Neither of us is going to change our mind, so why bother?

My question has nothing to do with the Samsung history, I'm asking how it is the S3 a clone of an iPhone.

Nor the appearance nor the functionality clones an iPhone

EDIT: Also, Not trying to be ****y.

 

[martinbc]

A Picture is worth a thousand words ....

 

[spjonez]

Right, and, once again, what's not obvious about the patents in question? For a piece of software to be granted a patent, it needs to be something truly new, or a substantial improvement on what's come before. Most importantly, they need to be specific in what they do and how they do it, which is the one biggest problem I have with the current software patent situation. Right now, they're so vague they could be applied to anything remotely similar.

If they were obvious, why hasn't anyone else implemented them before now?

I have no problem with someone getting a patent if they deserve it. But right now, the patent office has set the bar too low, and hands them to out to seemingly anyone who bothers filling out the paperwork.

That's what the patent office is for, they make that call.

If it's a substantial improvement upon the original idea, then yeah. You earned it. If it's just you slapping a few superfluous parts on top of the base design in a transparent attempt to get around a patent, then no.

That is your opinion and a sentiment not all developers share (me being one of them). If you were responsible for protecting a company's IP, had shareholders, investors, and employees to worry about you may feel differently.

Any code I write in my spare time I release for free on Github under the MIT license. Anyone can download it, modify it, and use/sell it to their hearts content without paying me a dime. Code I write for the company I expect to be protected as that's how we make a living.

This is true. IP does need protecting, but I don't think the software patent setup as it currently exists is the way to go about it. In the end, a large company with a bevy of vaguely defined patents can be just as damaging to any small startup company as a free-for-all IP environment. They can throw a few infringement lawsuits your way, bog you down in court, drain your wallet in legal fees, and even if you are able to prove their patents invalid, they have more money than you. You're now broke, and they buy you up.

I don't disagree that our current system has flaws, but switching to copyright is order of magnitudes worse. To be honest I don't know the correct solution either, hopefully these lawsuits will result in someone finding a better solution.

A patent for hardware has a much higher burden of proof than a patent on software. Hardware has to describe every moving part and provide diagrams showing exactly what does what. Software only has to provide the means but not the method to gain a patent.

This is the part I don't think you understand. Because software exists in two states, it's very hard to tell if someone infringed on your patent unless you can protect the method used to derive the result. With hardware anyone can buy one, take it apart to see how it's built and check if it infringes on your design. You can't do that with software so the protection has to be broad or it won't serve it's purpose.

 

[apolloa]

would they?

or would they wait till late 2014, iphone 6 so they can put a large high-quality display, make it thinner and more efficient with a8? smth they couldnt do in 2012 or 2013?

thinner so you actually can hold it comfortably. and use it.

i guess we'll never know, but we can guess.

all i know, large screen phones exist solely because of the oems inability to keep up with apple in design, thinness, performance and battery life. so they made larger phones. first phone that even touches iphone is xperia z1 compact. but its much thicker and larger.

then consumers, mostly asian commuters started loving large screens, phablets... and here we are now

The reason you don't get many small screen Android handsets has absolutely nothing with inability to keep up with Apple, and everything to do with the mass market demanding big screens, public loves them, and Android itself is much more functional on a bigger screen because of its widgets etc.

And you do realise the exact same company's making and developing iPhone parts do the same for Android handsets right?

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What about Dyson? Are you referring to a illconceived lawsuit where Dyson wanted to sue Samsung for infringing a bogus patent that Dyson received for something they did not actually invent? Looks very similar to Apple action indeed. Both Dyson and Apple lose to Samsung in open competition and resort to suing them.

How true, Dyson can rot in hell too, it did an Apple and moved all its manufacturing out of its home country (UK) to Assia to make more profit.