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Regarding something as a thing of the past is not necessarily synonymous with cutting off all support. However, the writing was already on the wall with the keynote Intel presentation. PPC was history. I still remember the furious debates that went on here with the Quad squad angry at dropping thousands on a rig that only had maintenance support, whilst even the most basic of Intel machines were getting access to 'The Best OSX Ever'.

As for soldered components, where Apple leads others follow. There is money to be made in planned for obsolescence and PC manufacturers are learning fast. Most people just don't really upgrade their computers. At a pinch, they may buy the odd external peripheral but tinkering in the internals is a dying art.
 
As for soldered components, where Apple leads others follow. There is money to be made in planned for obsolescence and PC manufacturers are learning fast. Most people just don't really upgrade their computers. At a pinch, they may buy the odd external peripheral but tinkering in the internals is a dying art.

I would hope this is the one thing nobody else follows. I can understand "no PCI." There was only a huge minority that actually used a PCI slot. I would at least hope there is a much higher number that has put in more RAM.

Maybe not that many that upgraded their hard drives, but making it so that no RAM at all can be upgraded? Seriously? Even the iBooks had one slot for more RAM. It's a trend that I seriously hope shoots its foot.
 
I would hope this is the one thing nobody else follows. I can understand "no PCI." There was only a huge minority that actually used a PCI slot. I would at least hope there is a much higher number that has put in more RAM.

Maybe not that many that upgraded their hard drives, but making it so that no RAM at all can be upgraded? Seriously? Even the iBooks had one slot for more RAM. It's a trend that I seriously hope shoots its foot.

I upgraded the RAM in my MBP. It was one of the first upgrades I did.

At the time I bought my computer, Apple was charging $200 to upgrade from 4gb to 8gb. I paid I think $40 or $50 for 2x4gb chips, plus got to keep the 2x2gb chips that were originally in the computer.

Fortunately, Apple has at least dropped their RAM upgrade prices to something more reasonable. I think that they're now charging $90 on the "Classic" MBP for 8GB as a BTO option, but doing it yourself is still cheaper.
 
In my opinion, we (PowerPC user community) are heading towards Mac classic and/or museum status. What I mean by that is that, in the Mac world, many classic Macs are pulled out on occasion for a specific purpose. Whether it's to play a period game, or feel nostalgia our PowerPC Macs will soon occupy that same niche.

Each one of us would qualify as a PowerPC Mac museum employee. We know how these Macs work and we have worked inside of them. If you have not noticed, there are Mac museums out there and our machines are starting to show up in them.

I have a bunch of PowerPC Macs, but only one that I care to keep tossing money at. As they slowly die the rest probably won't be fixed. But my A1013 will live as long as I can keep it running. It was my very first eBay purchae, the one model of Mac that actually made me WANT a Mac, and is to me a point of pride.

But, in the two points I named above, our Macs are still relevant. Why play a period game on an emulator when you can play it natively on a machine of the period? I can still use my Quicksilver for InDesign, Photoshop and for making/editing PDFs. There may be a time where the features of PDF are such that my current tools can no longer handle it, but the design industry moves slower than Apple when it comes to change. You can still make a PDF with Acrobat 3.0 and go to press/print with it.

Whatever purposes you have your Macs set aside for will determine how long you have. For me, it's internet browsing. There will be an A1261 for me next year. But again, that does not preclude the purposes of all my other Macs.
 
I would hope this is the one thing nobody else follows. I can understand "no PCI." There was only a huge minority that actually used a PCI slot. I would at least hope there is a much higher number that has put in more RAM.

Maybe not that many that upgraded their hard drives, but making it so that no RAM at all can be upgraded? Seriously? Even the iBooks had one slot for more RAM. It's a trend that I seriously hope shoots its foot.

Others have already gone there, like Asus and Lenovo. And that iMac thing with a sealed non-user upgradeable hard drive on top of non-upgradeable ram in the 21". In a desktop.

Watch out for that one.
 
Why play a period game on an emulator when you can play it natively on a machine of the period? I can still use my Quicksilver for InDesign, Photoshop and for making/editing PDFs.

That's why I run Tiger on my G4. I don't need or want modern software. I have newer Macs for modern software. I want my G4 to run the software it grew up with. :cool:
 
Others have already gone there, like Asus and Lenovo. And that iMac thing with a sealed non-user upgradeable hard drive on top of non-upgradeable ram in the 21". In a desktop.

Watch out for that one.

And I hope they all lose spectacular amounts of money from such a stupid mistake, Apple included.
 
10.6 didn't ship until August 2009, so I'm kind of wondering where the 2006 figure came from for lack of support. I know 2006 was the start of the transition to Intel, but PPC was still at least halfass supported, even after 10.6 hit.

Now to be fair, PowerPC has not been in a new Mac for 10 years now and Apple has cut off all support for years now. Also, with the way Apple has been doing incredibly stupid things lately, such as soldering everything down so there's zero upgrade potential, I'm not sure if my next computer will be a new Mac. I know my next laptop won't be one.

I don't get the whole upgradability thing. If you are noticing, every single laptop is moving towards non expandability.
 
Which is a shame because I would think it would be cheaper when they break to just swap a RAM stick for warranty purposes but maybe I am wrong.

Exactly! I had this Korean friend back in college, bought a Samsung laptop. One day it broke down and it was the OS. Turned out that it had one soldered RAM stick and that RAM went bad. It was out of warranty and that laptop was known for that problem. He had to buy a new one.
 
Exactly! I had this Korean friend back in college, bought a Samsung laptop. One day it broke down and it was the OS. Turned out that it had one soldered RAM stick and that RAM went bad. It was out of warranty and that laptop was known for that problem. He had to buy a new one.

The EPA and everyone talks about how computers are terrible things to throw out and always should be used to the end of their lives and then recycled. Well the manufacturers promote waste!
 
Each one of us would qualify as a PowerPC Mac museum employee. We know how these Macs work and we have worked inside of them. If you have not noticed, there are Mac museums out there and our machines are starting to show up in them.

That's true, and this is exactly the reason why I'm not worried about my PowerPC Macs' usefulness in the future. When they no longer serve a purpose as computers, I'll just have them on display as beautiful artefacts, examples of Apple's unique design language from the iMac era.
 
Yup and I just added to my collection today with this. Top of the range 466Mhz but with default spec. The hard drive is a bit noisy but I will probably replace it when I chuck more memory in it.

Not the best browsing machine but in good condition with no cracks or missing bits. The battery looks like it will take a charge. Just needs a good clean. The box is only missing the polystyrene tray. Everything else is there. A ridiculous £5.50 secured me this bit of recent heritage. Only one other lukewarm bidder.

While people dispose of perfectly serviceable word processors like this for nothing there will be people like me to save them from landfills.
 

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Yup and I just added to my collection today with this. Top of the range 466Mhz but with default spec. The hard drive is a bit noisy but I will probably replace it when I chuck more memory in it.

Not the best browsing machine but in good condition with no cracks or missing bits. The battery looks like it will take a charge. Just needs a good clean. The box is only missing the polystyrene tray. Everything else is there. A ridiculous £5.50 secured me this bit of recent heritage. Only one other lukewarm bidder.

While people dispose of perfectly serviceable word processors like this for nothing there will be people like me to save them from landfills.

You're extremely lucky to pickup such a nice machine, such a nice piece of history, and above all, lucky to have such an appreciation of older machines. That's one thing I love about this community, the valuing of old machines that aren't yet trash.
 
(now an old thread, but I stumbled across it again...)

I know that this thread has been left, but I stumbled across it again. It makes me really sad that PowerPC Macs' times will come sooner or later. I am sure there was a 1980s fan base around Macs back in the 1990s, and eventually people had to give up their computers and leave them as collection pieces. I really hate to see what is happening with the internet. Things are constantly updated and made broken for NO apparent reason! We can leave the internet well alone and still be just as productive. I don't understand why Flash has to update their stupid software every month, or exist for that matter. I absolutely hate how Java is still alive, considering it sucks at everything it does. I hate how things are just heavy for no reason. We almost force ourselves to make faster processors and force new standards of amounts of RAM because new software just gets slower and slower. If we had left the internet alone in the 1990s, we could be browsing the web fine on an old computer. In fact, what gets to me even more is that a relatively new computer still sometimes struggles on certain websites, which makes me think that Google and other sites/developers are those kinds of people who buy a new computer every two years. It's sad that we still do pretty much the same things on the internet now as we did many years ago, but with much less efficiency. I agree that by now, a PowerPC Mac can be use for very specific things and isn't a daily driver. I can still survive with them just because I don't need to do so many things on my computer that require new software. AIM is AIM, e-mail is e-mail, iTunes is iTunes, word processors are word processors, etc. The internet is just something that holds not only old computers back, but new computers as well. Why keep a leash on them?? Can companies take a rest and stop updating web standards every five minutes? We have people as a whole complaining that America generates tons of e-waste per year because we produce a lot of electronics and upgrade to new ones frequently. What, for the most part, makes a common user want a new computer? Internet surfing on their previous one being slow... Do they blame it on the computer? In most cases, people think and old computer is simply slow and don't understand how people could use computers so many years ago. No average person seems to be realizing it, but a large reason for the "obsoleteness" of computers is a result of internet standards being updated needlessly, causing a computer that is only three years old to gradually feel slower. Is the computer getting slower? Maybe there is a factor of wear and tear, but honestly things like the internet get too slow FOR the computer itself! Want to cut down on e-waste America? Then pressure devs to stop needlessly fixing what isn't broken with their software. I am gonna miss when I cannot use my PowerPC Mac mainly. It's sad to think that the times of the later PowerPC Macs are coming.
 
I don't know about you guys, but I will continue using my PPC right up until the very end. Am I concerned about parts? Yes, but it won't likely become a problem for a while yet. I am so glad there is still a large (and growing!) PPC community that continues to support and care for theses machines even today!
 
I had a nice chat today with my department chair that touched on this very topic.

The core of his research revolves around his home-built NMR(nuclear magnetic resonance) spectrometer. For those so interested, he's using an off-the-shelf(so to speak) wide bore 500 mhz Oxford magnet and doing solid state spectroscopy with magic angle spinning. The "home built" part of the instrument is the probe, which he has tinkered with over the years.

And, where all of this ties into the discussion is that the software(also mostly his own creation) runs on OS 9 and interfaces to the spectrometer via a couple of PCI cards.

He's currently running it with a B&W G3 that he says is giving him problems, and is getting ready to upgrade to a G4 tower. Given the software and hardware issues, a G4 is as new as he can go without a substantial monetary investment and a lot of work and time(none of which he has).

Although the PPC Mac is just the "front end" of the system, it's a pretty significant front end and is still pulling its weight in terms of putting out good research and publishing papers.

So, that's at least one application where a PPC Mac in some form is going to be in use probably until he retires and dismantles the instrument.
 
Based on a discussion I viewed recently in another thread, I wanted to revisit this topic rather than starting a whole new thread.

Between my first post and now a lot of things have changed. My QS has been retired, I gained a 2.3DC, a 2.7 DP and a Quad Core G5. All of those are relegated to lesser positions even now as I am typing this on my Mac Pro.

Since May, I've been using this MP and while I dearly love the 17" PowerBook sitting next to it I am really finding no use for it (although I haven't stopped thinking about it). My original intent was to use it to browse the net for pertinent sites while working on the main tower. However, I grow more and more dissatisfied with the time it takes to do this, versus opening another browser window on the MP.

With the 17" SL MBP, the 15" MBP, the Mac Mini and this MacPro I have essentially left PowerPC behind. I am still using it for specific things, but honestly those things could all be handled by the Intels. I'm not here to bash PowerPC or say "move on!", I'm just referencing where I am right now.

Farther up this page I mentioned I believe we are heading into museum status for PowerPC. While that hasn't yet happened, let's be honest and realize that the majority of the PowerPC Macs that we claim as daily drivers are the last and high-end versions of those particular models - because they give use the most power to do things. Yes, there are other Macs that are slower performers, but these tend to get used for specific tasks or as 'proof of concept' type things.

I realize I'm generalizing, but I don't believe I am far off the mark. This community has not yet fully moved on, but the day is coming when the balance of the typical discussions we've had over the years are going to be referencing early Intel Macs and not PowerPC. Yes, we will still be talking about PowerPC, but more as it relates to specific tasks that they are capable of or that they actually do better.

Outside of leveraging Linux, which gives our PowerPC Macs many more years, I just think we are coming (soon) to the next stop. Most of us have early Intels and this community is a refuge for discussing them outside the main Intel forum. It's just natural progression I think.

As always, I value everyone's opinion on this.
 
I agree that PPC machines are rapidly becoming even more of a collector's item than a really usable daily driver computer, especially running OS X. I still pull out my computers on a regular basis to play around with and try out new stuff I've seen on here, but pretty much all my school and browsing is handled by my Mac Pro and MacBook, both of which I think count as early Intel (09 MB is probably debatable). Early Intel is a lot more usable as even the 2006 machines can be made to run windows and the 09 and up models can run current versions of macOS.

This forum has been seeing a shift toward more emphasis on Intel machines. PPC is still the main focus, but I think many others are slowly moving to Intel as you are. (I think this forum could be renamed PowerPC/Early Intel so discussions on that could take place more 'officially', but that's probably better suited to Forum Feedback.)

Things have changed a lot from this 2014 thread. I got into PPC around 2015, when the newest machines were about 15 years old. Those machines are now 20 years old. Leopard received it's final updates in 2011 IIRC, only three years before this thread. Now it's almost ten. In the last ten years, I believe PPC shifted from what many considered 'obsolete junk' people almost gave away on Craigslist to valuable collector pieces. From what I've read, many of us got into this because the low priced machines made it accessible. Now early Intel is filling that same niche of inexpensive machines. (It is for me anyway, I use old hardware because I hate to pay a lot for new things when old computers can do the same for a lower cost, plus I like to tinker with stuff.)

The Internet continues to get more and more bloated and modern workflows become more demanding with things like video calls during the pandemic. Even my Macbook struggles with google meet sometimes. Old single core, sub-GHz computers with low amounts of ram and old graphics just are not up to many of these tasks in my experience.

Maybe we'll just be a generation behind, apple releases a new architecture and we move up to whatever the last one was. :)

Anyway, that's just my opinion. I hope more people will chime in with their perspectives too.
 
@eyoungren Your points are well-founded. Only because you asked for opinions pertaining to this subject, I will give you mine in a somewhat condensed format:

As I have stated in the past, I have a continued interest in PowerPC machines not because they are historically affordable examples of Apple when it was great (although that is what initially attracted me as I grew up in an Apple household), but because they are an obscure architecture in the modern landscape oftentimes housed in attractive and / or endearing case designs, both qualities calling back to the high-end Silicon Graphics workstations of the 90's, which I also think were great. The fact that I refer to them as machines and not Macs is indicative of this (besides the fact that there were PowerPC-based machines that were not Macs, which I also think were equally great).

However, they also strike another interest in me because a loaded machine (a mid-tier G4 for example) does possess the base resources necessary to handle the modern Web at a comfortable or at least acceptable pace, but only after the hardware has been fully leveraged and the software fully optimized to better achieve a desired end result. This is another point of interest, because for some people (as I'm sure others here can attest), it is fun to optimize things; especially when doing so in order to reap said better result out of whatever you're asking the machine to do than it otherwise would have in an unoptimized state. So simply using these machines is for me almost like a win-win scenario.

When given that context, it is self-evident as to why Intel Macs do not strike the same chord in me. Their computing power is in greater supply, so they do not require any optimization. Their architecture is not by any means special (which also carries certain consequences for certain use cases, like virus binaries and hardware exploits), and shortly after the transition, they all assimilated into the exact same black and silver appearance. Which further differentiated them from the concept of soul and individuality, whereas at least the PowerPC machines were aesthetically segmented into either all-white or all-silver depending on the market any given machine catered to.

As @AL1630 mentioned, I too have seen increased discussion around early Intel Macs in this forum, with an increasing margin of users slowly shifting to that platform exclusively. Taking this into account, when it inevitably gets to the point that the PowerPC ecosystem and architecture finds itself a borderline afterthought in a majority of threads and discussions, I will probably stop logging on as the forum's original appeal for me would have at that point left.

-

As to the future of PowerPC machines on the Internet, there will inevitably come a point in time where Software Update will stop connecting to Apple's servers, iTunes will cease to connect to the store, Leopard WebKit will not connect to most websites, TenFourFox will become just as limited as Camino 2.1.2 is now, file sharing will become impossible with new environments, Gentoo, OpenBSD, and FreeBSD will drop support, and the renewed Linux activity that began two years ago will die down once more. There will come a certain point in most likely less than 10 years' time that these machines will be useful to most people for exclusively niche offline tasks and that alone, boasting only one very small dedicated online community of diehard users (probably Macintosh Garden or Mac OS 9 Lives).

I could be wrong of course; I am sure that nobody in 2010 ever expected these things to scream into 2020 with the vengeance that they had. But in any case, I am already pursuing ARM and OpenPOWER platforms in preparation for this. Eventually, I strongly believe that RISC-V will find its way into the mix and grow its market share as well, but it will need to mature for a small period first, which it is already very well into the process of now.

However, I won't soon forget the social interactions and bonds had here over time. To me, they were invaluable and something that transcends technology altogether.
 
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Based on a discussion I viewed recently in another thread, I wanted to revisit this topic rather than starting a whole new thread.

Between my first post and now a lot of things have changed. My QS has been retired, I gained a 2.3DC, a 2.7 DP and a Quad Core G5. All of those are relegated to lesser positions even now as I am typing this on my Mac Pro.

Since May, I've been using this MP and while I dearly love the 17" PowerBook sitting next to it I am really finding no use for it (although I haven't stopped thinking about it). My original intent was to use it to browse the net for pertinent sites while working on the main tower. However, I grow more and more dissatisfied with the time it takes to do this, versus opening another browser window on the MP.

With the 17" SL MBP, the 15" MBP, the Mac Mini and this MacPro I have essentially left PowerPC behind. I am still using it for specific things, but honestly those things could all be handled by the Intels. I'm not here to bash PowerPC or say "move on!", I'm just referencing where I am right now.

Farther up this page I mentioned I believe we are heading into museum status for PowerPC. While that hasn't yet happened, let's be honest and realize that the majority of the PowerPC Macs that we claim as daily drivers are the last and high-end versions of those particular models - because they give use the most power to do things. Yes, there are other Macs that are slower performers, but these tend to get used for specific tasks or as 'proof of concept' type things.

I realize I'm generalizing, but I don't believe I am far off the mark. This community has not yet fully moved on, but the day is coming when the balance of the typical discussions we've had over the years are going to be referencing early Intel Macs and not PowerPC. Yes, we will still be talking about PowerPC, but more as it relates to specific tasks that they are capable of or that they actually do better.

Outside of leveraging Linux, which gives our PowerPC Macs many more years, I just think we are coming (soon) to the next stop. Most of us have early Intels and this community is a refuge for discussing them outside the main Intel forum. It's just natural progression I think.

As always, I value everyone's opinion on this.

I said something somewhat similar and got called many harsh names.

Incidentally, I agree with everything you wrote.
 
I remember this thread well, shocking that its six years old now! PPC Linux-Void, Adeile, Fienix etc, while at least a way forward doesn't solve the problem of the web being a bloated and deeply unpleasant place to be on any single processor computer or any pre 2006 hardware. I also am looking very seriously at ARM and OpenPower (God, an OpenPower laptop-can you even imagine?) as ways forward to avoid the Intel-AMD-Apple-Microsoft-Google Axis of Awfulness. Right now I am settling for a Librebooted 2008 Thinkpad with Linux and without an Intel ME as my stopgap on the web. A serious, powerful ARM Open Source Laptop, something like a Pinebook Pro (but not crippled by no user upgradable components) is probably my next new computing purchase. Definitely not an M1 Mac. Sorry Apple. Yes, it's mighty impressive, but until you stop ripping off you users, using slave labour and respect our right to repair and upgrade, no flipping dice.
 
@eyoungren Your points are well-founded. Only because you asked for opinions pertaining to this subject, I will give you mine in a somewhat condensed format:

As I have stated in the past, I have a continued interest in PowerPC machines not because they are historically affordable examples of Apple when it was great (although that is what initially attracted me as I grew up in an Apple household), but because they are an obscure architecture in the modern landscape oftentimes housed in attractive and / or endearing case designs, both qualities calling back to the high-end Silicon Graphics workstations of the 90's, which I also think were great. The fact that I refer to them as machines and not Macs is indicative of this.

However, they also strike another interest in me because a loaded machine (a mid-tier G4 for example) does possess the base resources necessary to handle the modern Web at a comfortable or at least acceptable pace, but only after the hardware has been fully leveraged and the software fully optimized to better achieve a desired end result. This is another point of interest, because for some people (as I'm sure others here can attest), it is fun to optimize things; especially when doing so in order to reap said better result out of whatever you're asking the machine to do than it otherwise would have in an unoptimized state. So it is almost like a win-win scenario.

When given that context, it is self-evident as to why Intel Macs do not strike the same chord in me. Their computing power is in greater supply, so they do not require any optimization. Their architecture is not by any means special (which also carries certain consequences for certain use cases), and shortly after the transition, they all assimilated into the exact same black and silver appearance. Which further differentiated them from the concept of individuality, whereas at least the PowerPC machines were segmented into either all-white or all-silver depending on the market any given machine catered to.

As @AL1630 mentioned, I too have seen increased discussion around early Intel Macs in this forum, with an increasing margin of users inevitably shifting to that platform exclusively. Taking this into account, when it inevitably gets to the point that the PowerPC ecosystem and architecture finds itself a borderline afterthought in a majority of threads and discussions, I will probably stop logging on as the forum's original appeal for me would have at that point left.

-

As to the future of PowerPC machines on the Internet, there will inevitably come a point in time where Software Update will stop connecting to Apple's servers, iTunes will cease to connect to the store, Leopard WebKit will not connect to most websites, TenFourFox will become just as limited as Camino 2.1.2 is now, file sharing will become impossible with new environments, Gentoo, OpenBSD, and FreeBSD will drop support, and the renewed Linux activity that began two years ago will die down once more. There will come a certain point in most likely less than 10 years' time that these machines will be useful to most people for exclusively niche offline tasks and that alone, boasting only one very small dedicated online community of diehard users.

I could be wrong of course, I am sure that nobody in 2010 ever expected these things to scream into 2020 with the vengeance that they had. But in any case, I am already pursuing ARM and OpenPOWER platforms in preparation for this. Eventually, I strongly believe that RISC-V will find its way into the mix and grow its market share as well, but it will need to mature for a small period first.

However, I won't soon forget the social interactions and bonds had here over time. To me, they were invaluable; which is something that transcends technology altogether.
PowerPC is always going to occupy a special memory in my mind. There are many spots there, occupied by many different types of computers and the time periods in which I used them. For PowerPC it will always be the fact that in looking for a community during a time period when my use of these Macs was heavy, I found one. Just like the local user group I found for Commodore when I was 14 where I experienced social comradery, I've found the same here. We all share a common experience and I value the relationships I've made.

I'll always be around, it's also why I hang out in the iPhone forum even though my daily use phone is an Android. I can only hope that there is something at some point that will keep you here.

Thanks for the input!
 
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