Kentsfield (Quad-core Intel) by end of 2006?

[aegisdesign]

And that's one of the reasons I don't like all in ones, I dont like throwing away display no matter what the size. My last CRT lasted me about 6 years and I had an old apple 14" monitor that was still working after 10 years! Now that's getting value out of your components!

Do you really want to use a monitor from 10 years ago in everyday use? Not likely. I've a 15" CRT from about a decade ago too but it's sitting on a shelf as a spare in case my newer monitor dies.

Most times I've bought a new computer, I've also bought a new monitor. A widescreen 17" monitor back when I bought my iMac was extortionately expensive. I generally figure on spending about £15-1800 every three years on a computer and about 5-6 years of useful life. It's been going up from a G3 iBook to a 17" G5 Mac to a fully kitted out 24" iMac for that money. I can't imagine what it will be in 3 - 6 years time but I guess it'll make a 24" iMac feel just as obsolete as the 500Mhz G3 iBook with a 1024x768 screen feels.

I have to conclude that people who want to use their 10 year old CRT are just incredibly cheap and don't value their screens as much as being able to claim how fast their CPU is. I've been programming for 20+ years professionally and your screen isn't something to skimp on. It's THE most important thing if you value your eyes.

 

[manu chao]

This is my expectation. I am one customer who needs 8 cores for sure. I also expect to need 16 when they become available. Clovertown is not expected to be any longer than Kentsfield.

If you need 16 cores, shouldn't you get a rack with four Xserves (once the new Xserves with Intel-processors become available)?

Sure, getting the same in one (quiet) box for the price of one box would be preferable but this is not available yet.

Or, do you mean you want 16 cores but right now you are not willing to spent what it takes to get it.

(Sorry for the tone, I would like to have 16 cores for my work as well.)

 

[manu chao]

I have to conclude that people who want to use their 10 year old CRT are just incredibly cheap and don't value their screens as much as being able to claim how fast their CPU is.

Maybe, with the current pace at which CPUs are improving, I would want to upgrade my CPU every 18 months but my screen only every 36 months?

 

[Multimedia]

$4k For An 8 Core Then A 16 Core Mac Is My Expectation-Hope

If you need 16 cores, shouldn't you get a rack with four Xserves (once the new Xserves with Intel-processors become available)?

Sure, getting the same in one (quiet) box for the price of one box would be preferable but this is not available yet.

Or, do you mean you want 16 cores but right now you are not willing to spent what it takes to get it.

(Sorry for the tone, I would like to have 16 cores for my work as well.)

What tone? Yeah I don't want to spend that much. I'm thinking $4k max for an 8 Core-In-One Mac Pro. I'm sure I'll be pretty happy with 8 until I find out I still have to wait a lot for video compressions to happen. Then I'll be right back here complaining about how 8 cores isn't enough either.

I'm with you there. Although I don't do video compression but Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign work, I'm sure Adobe will manage to deliver a version of CS3 that still feels sluggish under 8 cores.

Glad I won't be alone. We are an unusual small group finding a reason to need a lot of cores. I think those who don't don't understand us.

I still wonder if all this video editing is personal or for profit.

Personal. I'm just trying to archive Television recordings - simple. But currently it takes longer than the shows run IE about 3x time spent watching, then crushing each show. That's a very time consuming thing to get hung up on. And I'm sure it makes no sense to 90% of those here.

 

[Eidorian]

What tone? Yeah I don't want to spend that much. I'm thinking $4k max for an 8 Core-In-One Mac Pro. I'm sure I'll be pretty happy with 8 until I find out I still have to wait a lot for video compressions to happen. Then I'll be right back here complaining about how 8 cores isn't enough either.

I still wonder if all this video editing is personal or for profit.

 

[zwida]

Then I'll be right back here complaining about how 8 cores isn't enough either.

I'm with you there. Although I don't do video compression but Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign work, I'm sure Adobe will manage to deliver a version of CS3 that still feels sluggish under 8 cores.

 

[chatin]

What tone? Yeah I don't want to spend that much. I'm thinking $4k max for an 8 Core-In-One Mac Pro. I'm sure I'll be pretty happy with 8 until I find out I still have to wait a lot for video compressions to happen. Then I'll be right back here complaining about how 8 cores isn't enough either.

My Xeon utilization is only 50% per proc while compressing in Quicktime Pro. Even during an HD export the fans don't get use.

 

[fblack]

Do you really want to use a monitor from 10 years ago in everyday use? Not likely. I've a 15" CRT from about a decade ago too but it's sitting on a shelf as a spare in case my newer monitor dies.

Most times I've bought a new computer, I've also bought a new monitor. A widescreen 17" monitor back when I bought my iMac was extortionately expensive. I generally figure on spending about £15-1800 every three years on a computer and about 5-6 years of useful life. It's been going up from a G3 iBook to a 17" G5 Mac to a fully kitted out 24" iMac for that money. I can't imagine what it will be in 3 - 6 years time but I guess it'll make a 24" iMac feel just as obsolete as the 500Mhz G3 iBook with a 1024x768 screen feels.

I have to conclude that people who want to use their 10 year old CRT are just incredibly cheap and don't value their screens as much as being able to claim how fast their CPU is. I've been programming for 20+ years professionally and your screen isn't something to skimp on. It's THE most important thing if you value your eyes.

I think you mistook the slant of my post. Notice the big grin face at the end of my sentence in the previous post? I meant it half in jest. It does not mean that as I type I am staring at a 14" screen. As far as my 6 yr old CRT that died it was a 19inch not a tiny screen and certainly hefty at about 60lbs. My 10yr old CRT that has been permanently retired now was in fact used as a backup monitor for my old beige G3. I've had more than one monitor go before and having a backup even if it has small screen real estate can save your bacon if you've got work to do.

I would love to have the budget to replace all of my equipment every 3 years like you can but I dont have that luxury. If I can have a piece of equipment last a little longer you may call it cheap from your fancy perch, but I call it frugal. Good budgeting should never be sneered at...

 

[Multimedia]

Quad G5 Crushes With Almost Two Cores All The Time

My Xeon utilization is only 50% per proc while compressing in Quicktime Pro. Even during an HD export the fans don't get use.

I am compressing EyeTV Broadcast HD recordings with Toast then Handbrake. On the G5 Quad they each use more than two cores occasionally and almost two cores all the time - well over 80% each all the time.

I can crush two files simultaneously to gain even more performance - like 150% faster that way.

 

[EagerDragon]

Put a Conroe processor in a midrange headless system, and you'll have what the cube was supposed to be. The problem is that Apple just finished rationalizing a minimized line. To add something else into their lineup makes for all kinds of headaches.

Low-end (headless) - mac mini
Mid-range (all-in-one) - iMac
High-end (headless) - mac pro
Server room (headless) - xserve

In order to rationalize another product line in the mid-range (pro-sumer?) market, I think they'll need to focus it on some other feature that people need. Dropping the cube back out there just cannibalizes sales of existing product, if you are not careful with it.

Apple does not seem to believe that there is some large contingent of people who want a mid-range system that would prefer it not to have a monitor. I, however, think they are wrong, and they are missing a large segment of people who are willing to pay top dollar for a high-end well-designed machine. That market is the one for the high-end gamer.

Apple absolutely could produce a great machine aimed at high-end gamers. Produce a super-cool design aimed at that segment. Make it BTO with multiple upgradable graphics cards, fast bus speeds, fast ram, RAID 0, etc. They could leave off FW800, Bluetooth (most wireless gamer mice don't use it), and some of the other connectivity options that high-end gamers could care less about (modems, etc). Put the Conroe processors in there and crank them up as high as you can. The high end system could be liquid cooled, we already know apple can do that when needed. Most games are still not threaded all that well - but an MT OpenGL also couldn't hurt...

They could also Pre-install boot-camp as a BTO option. We all know any serious gamer is going to want windows installed - so just prep them for it. It wouldn't surprise me to see many more people buying macs to run windows on in the near future anyway.

There isn't any reason why such a machine couldn't look like the "cube" I suppose, but I'd probably prefer to see something different. The cube had a different design goal and has too much baggage associated with it anyway.

It is coming, I bet. But you forgot the need for SLI. Apple is a hardware company and does not mind selling to Windows users that want the best hardware for their games. It is coming.

 

[Multimedia]

I Never Play Games • Am I In A Minority?

It is coming, I bet. But you forgot the need for SLI. Apple is a hardware company and does not mind selling to Windows users that want the best hardware for their games. It is coming.

Anyone got numbers on percentage of computer users who play games? I never play games. Am I in a minority?

 

[EagerDragon]

Anyone got numbers on percentage of computer users who play games? I never play games. Am I in a minority?

The target is Windows users, Most windows users between 10 and 25 play some game or another. I have no clue about OS X users on the Macs but probably 20 % do.

Apple is interested in selling hardware and putting a hurt on PC companies like Dell and others. They can sell a heck of a lot of machines to the PC market and double or quatruple their market share in just one year alone. That is what BootCamp is there for.

 

[sisyphus]

Face it the Conroe Mac is coming.

iMac 24" - $1999

Mac Pro (downgraded to 2.0 Ghz) + 23" - 3198

That is a $1k price gap.

A high quality midtower would fit perfectly. They have another chip to differentiate the product matrix. It is coming!

Mac Mini - Core Duo (yonah) - base entry machine. 2 RAM slots
iMac - Core 2 Duo (Merom) - All in one basic to prosumer models, quiet operation and powerful. 2 RAM Slots
"Mac" - Core 2 Duo (Conroe) - mini tower 1 optical, 2 drives, 2 PCIe, 4 RAM Slots - prosumer to low end workstation.
Mac Pro - Xeon (Woodcrest) - Full tower 2 processors, 8 RAM slots, 4 PCIe, 2 optical, 4 drive bays. - Mid to high end workstation.

Face it Apple left the biggest gap between the iMac and the Pro machine ever! There was no crippled tower to span the distance between the two. Apple wants to expand market share. They have a power processor that will not step on the toes of the machine above or below. Why wouldn't they use it. Before all the desktops ran the G5. It was difficult to provide product differentiation without gobbling sales up internally. Here the highest end Conroe cannot match the lowest end dual Woodcrest at highly threaded apps. This is a win-win situation. It will either come out on Tuesday or another special event in early october.

 

[EagerDragon]

Face it the Conroe Mac is coming.

iMac 24" - $1999

Mac Pro (downgraded to 2.0 Ghz) + 23" - 3198

That is a $1k price gap.

A high quality midtower would fit perfectly. They have another chip to differentiate the product matrix. It is coming!

Mac Mini - Core Duo (yonah) - base entry machine. 2 RAM slots
iMac - Core 2 Duo (Merom) - All in one basic to prosumer models, quiet operation and powerful. 2 RAM Slots
"Mac" - Core 2 Duo (Conroe) - mini tower 1 optical, 2 drives, 2 PCIe, 4 RAM Slots - prosumer to low end workstation.
Mac Pro - Xeon (Woodcrest) - Full tower 2 processors, 8 RAM slots, 4 PCIe, 2 optical, 4 drive bays. - Mid to high end workstation.

Face it Apple left the biggest gap between the iMac and the Pro machine ever! There was no crippled tower to span the distance between the two. Apple wants to expand market share. They have a power processor that will not step on the toes of the machine above or below. Why wouldn't they use it. Before all the desktops ran the G5. It was difficult to provide product differentiation without gobbling sales up internally. Here the highest end Conroe cannot match the lowest end dual Woodcrest at highly threaded apps. This is a win-win situation. It will either come out on Tuesday or another special event in early october.

It will be headless and upgradable to attract the Windows gamers. They already have monitors, keyboards and mice. A little BootCamp goes a long way.

 

[rtdunham]

Sorry, but that mockup is just stupid. Whoever made it obviously has no concept of Apple's product line. CONSUMER = WHITE OR BLACK. PRO = ALUMINUM. NEITHER = MIX OF IMAC WHITE + ALUMINUM. Every single frickin' product follows these guidelines. Get a clue.

You're doing what Marshall McLuhan described: looking in a rearview mirror to anticipate the future. You might even be being a little arrogant about it. Y'think? I mean, what about those aluminum iPod minis? that same format's suggested for new nanos. Apple's smart to delineate its lines, and you're smart to note that. But neither Apple nor you would be smart to think that delineation has to be sustained...what, forever? Like wide and narrow ties (hair styles, skirt lengths) moving in and out of fashion, Apple, IMHO, will establish distinctions and evolve them over time. It won't always happen: we'll never see a black Apple laptop again, like the early models, but... Oh, wait!!!

bellbottoms forever
peace out

 

[Multimedia]

I Agree With Sisyphus A Conroe Mac Pro Jr. Has Got To Be Imminent

Face it the Conroe Mac is coming.

iMac 24" - $1999

Mac Pro (downgraded to 2.0 Ghz) + 23" - 3198

That is a $1k price gap.

A high quality midtower would fit perfectly. They have another chip to differentiate the product matrix. It is coming!

Mac Mini - Core Duo (yonah) - base entry machine. 2 RAM slots
iMac - Core 2 Duo (Merom) - All in one basic to prosumer models, quiet operation and powerful. 2 RAM Slots
"Mac" - Core 2 Duo (Conroe) - mini tower 1 optical, 2 drives, 2 PCIe, 4 RAM Slots - prosumer to low end workstation.
Mac Pro - Xeon (Woodcrest) - Full tower 2 processors, 8 RAM slots, 4 PCIe, 2 optical, 4 drive bays. - Mid to high end workstation.

Face it Apple left the biggest gap between the iMac and the Pro machine ever! There was no crippled tower to span the distance between the two. Apple wants to expand market share. They have a power processor that will not step on the toes of the machine above or below. Why wouldn't they use it. Before all the desktops ran the G5. It was difficult to provide product differentiation without gobbling sales up internally. Here the highest end Conroe cannot match the lowest end dual Woodcrest at highly threaded apps. This is a win-win situation. It will either come out on Tuesday or another special event in early october.

I sure hope you are right. I totally agree with your analysis.

It will be headless and upgradable to attract the Windows gamers. They already have monitors, keyboards and mice. A little BootCamp goes a long way.

I want this to be where Kentsfield and Tigerton wind up for less than $2k. The existing base of over 25 Million Mac owners also already have this stuff. But they will come with a keyboard and mouse.

 

[Macmaniac]

Please stop these chip rumors, it will only spawn new "MacBooks this Tuesday" threads

 

[EagerDragon]

Please stop these chip rumors, it will only spawn new "MacBooks this Tuesday" threads

No, PowerBook G7 on Monday's keynote

 

[FFTT]

I understand the need for a mid level consumer tower, but right now
50%+/- of the market is looking at notebooks.

The cluttered, wire infested desktop is also none too popular with many people.
That's why the AOI iMac is so popular.

The MacBook is already more powerful than the majority of desktops MOST
average users have in their home.
The mini does a respectable job filling the affordable hassle free niche.

Heck, if you don't count the extra RAM cost, the Xeon powered Mac Pro 2.66 Quad is priced neck and neck with the mid level MacBook Pro.
That's amazing when you really think about it.

Even so, I do see a place for a Max mini of some sort starting
with at least the power of half a Mac Pro Tower for $999.00

 

[sord]

No, PowerBook G7 on Monday's keynote

I don't know about a G7, but PowerBook G5s for sure!!!

 

[ezekielrage_99]

I wondering how many people are now going to put off buying a Mac Pro and wait for a faster Kentsfield

The Mac Pros a fast as it is now, Kentsfield would smash the previous benchmarks but a fair margin.

 

[adamfilip]

I wondering how many people are now going to put off buying a Mac Pro and wait for a faster Kentsfield

The Mac Pros a fast as it is now, Kentsfield would smash the previous benchmarks but a fair margin.

Ive heard about cloverton coming all along. and have put off buying a Mac pro

id much rather have 8 cores then 4 for the work i do

 

[ezekielrage_99]

Face it the Conroe Mac is coming.

iMac 24" - $1999

Mac Pro (downgraded to 2.0 Ghz) + 23" - 3198

That is a $1k price gap.

A high quality midtower would fit perfectly. They have another chip to differentiate the product matrix. It is coming!

Mac Mini - Core Duo (yonah) - base entry machine. 2 RAM slots
iMac - Core 2 Duo (Merom) - All in one basic to prosumer models, quiet operation and powerful. 2 RAM Slots
"Mac" - Core 2 Duo (Conroe) - mini tower 1 optical, 2 drives, 2 PCIe, 4 RAM Slots - prosumer to low end workstation.
Mac Pro - Xeon (Woodcrest) - Full tower 2 processors, 8 RAM slots, 4 PCIe, 2 optical, 4 drive bays. - Mid to high end workstation.

Sounds kind of feasible for a single CPU "Mac" Conroe system and it would fit nicely into the Apple product line up. I think a Conroe system would appeal nicely to prosumers and gamers.

 

[EagerDragon]

I understand the need for a mid level consumer tower, but right now
50%+/- of the market is looking at notebooks.

The cluttered, wire infested desktop is also none too popular with many people.
That's why the AOI iMac is so popular.

The MacBook is already more powerful than the majority of desktops MOST
average users have in their home.
The mini does a respectable job filling the affordable hassle free niche.

Heck, if you don't count the extra RAM cost, the Xeon powered Mac Pro 2.66 Quad is priced neck and neck with the mid level MacBook Pro.
That's amazing when you really think about it.

Even so, I do see a place for a Max mini of some sort starting
with at least the power of half a Mac Pro Tower for $999.00

If the iMac would come with a top of the line graphic card or as a BTO, it would be even more popular.

But the top gamers want more than one card with SLI and that means a different form factor.

I agree something is coming, but it does not have to be a mini. It could be a modified Mac Pro enclosure with liquid cooling for the graphic cards, CPU(s) and chip set. Mini or Maxi not sure. The system will also need to support overclocking of the CPU and Graphic cards. We will find out soon (prob October) for the holidays.

 

[ezekielrage_99]

Ive heard about cloverton coming all along. and have put off buying a Mac pro

id much rather have 8 cores then 4 for the work i do

With people putting off for the "next big thing" I wonder how many people will end up buying nothing