Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Kernel panic at boots… A CPU failure? [EDIT: No; RAM.]
- Thread starter Lud DiLettante
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
OK. The DiskWarrior disc seems to work perfectly though (although the results aren't perfectly optimized directories). BtW I tried to boot ASD with C, the cursor slid by itself all the way from left to right along the menu bar... (never seen anything like it. After that it was frozen as usual.)
Surprise "progress" with ASD...
I didn't think I could change the mouse speed for ASD, but did set the mouse to maximum speed at System Preferences and what do you know, I could start the test..! Didn't get far though. Here's what I wrote down from the locked screen:
Testing MLB
10 - Address as Data Test on Memory <2GB using address/!addr[I couldn't read further than this because I couldn't scroll, but then:]
ERROR - Memory Data Mismatch
-TEST FAILED-
(elsewhere it said:"ERROR 4")
No such progress with AHT. I did read somewhere that there's such a thing as "loop mode" for AHT, that you start by cmd+L before the test, but couldn't figure yet if it works for G5, nor about when exactly to press cmd+L.
I've also been thinking about burning the PPC Memtest (on another Mac of course).
I didn't think I could change the mouse speed for ASD, but did set the mouse to maximum speed at System Preferences and what do you know, I could start the test..! Didn't get far though. Here's what I wrote down from the locked screen:
Testing MLB
10 - Address as Data Test on Memory <2GB using address/!addr[I couldn't read further than this because I couldn't scroll, but then:]
ERROR - Memory Data Mismatch
-TEST FAILED-
(elsewhere it said:"ERROR 4")
No such progress with AHT. I did read somewhere that there's such a thing as "loop mode" for AHT, that you start by cmd+L before the test, but couldn't figure yet if it works for G5, nor about when exactly to press cmd+L.
I've also been thinking about burning the PPC Memtest (on another Mac of course).
Hack5190
macrumors 6502a
Great find on the mouse. Looks like you need to do some memory swapping to get past that test and go on from there. Welcome to the 'joy' of working with old systems.
I'll eventually get versed on memory swapping but meanwhile maybe somebody knows a link to a dummy-friendly introduction..? Or other similiar... 🙂
Hack5190
macrumors 6502a
Check this thread here -> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/memory-cards.1953667/#post-22523179 . Hopefully you have more than 2 sticks in there so you can do some swapping.
If you need guidance on how to remove & insert memory check youtube 😉
If you need guidance on how to remove & insert memory check youtube 😉
Aah, the hills are alive with prospects... do I see an 
orchard in the distance... One of these days, I just might get there, my heart full of spring....
orchard in the distance... One of these days, I just might get there, my heart full of spring....
Right... Considerable progress, from my perspective. (You might fast-read this.)
It began to seem swapping memory isn't that tricky, so I took the risk and did it the way I understood it. Along the way there had been potential confusion, like when I googled "swapping memory" and it appeared to be something that the computer does by itself... or when E. originally told me I might have a bad memory stick - I thought he can't mean what it sounded like to me because the direct translation of "memory stick" in finnish is an USB flash drive... so I googled "memory stick" and indeed, even in english I saw only USB flash drives... I figured maybe if somebody keeps a bad USBFD attached to the Mac it might cause major trouble... ;D but a suspicion lingered, as it often does because all the terminology is confusing and has many illogical overlaps etc... not to mention that the translations of the words are rarely analogous in implication (and for instance my Mac's default language is finnish, etc etc).
Anyway, where was I. Well, it appears Erik was right from the start.
After I had shuffled the memory sticks I booted ASD again.
Heavens above, it was working! 🙂
So I started the test with whatever default settings there were. Well, I was getting repeats of the one result I had got yesterday. So I tried "continue on error".
It went on to "Testing memory - DIMM0/J11..." and went through 5 different tests, all ending with the same: "ERROR: Data mismatch 4 - TEST FAILED".
Then it started the same on DIMM1/J12 but it was getting tedious as the result was always the same "Data mismatch 4".
I decided I might as well stop the test and try something else. Had a look at the "Stand Alone Tests". I found CPU0 and CPU1, so I had to try... and both passed testing, in green!
Now, ASD did seem a bit complicated, a bit Apple Genius, and I was itching to see what AHT might do.
Quit ASD, booted on AHT. Success again..!
Tried the quick test first. Sure enough, the only problem found was with memory. The error code was:
2MEM/104/4: DIMM0/J11
Of course, I had to try the extended test too... I got the usual suspect, but for some reason with a slightly different code:
2MEM/1/4: DIMM0/J11
Still, I was left wondering about a couple of things:
The test list had Airport, Hard drive, Storage Media, Modem, Memory, and Video card (and yes, I used AHT in finnish but you'll have to trust my translations...)
Why no processors/logic board..? (Well, no display/keyboard/mouse either, but OK...) Or does CPU go under Memory or something..? Or, is *this* the case for ASD...
Also, I had disconnected airport and modem, and AHT did list them as not connected. But the "Video card" test was listed as "not performed". First I thought that might change with the extended test, but didn't. Maybe that should've been selected separately from the default tests..?
OK, after the tests I booted the main drive. Once I got to desktop, there was a Kernel Panic........
I booted in safe mode, checked panic log - voilà, another panic on top of the panic log.....
On next boot I only got an unveiled screen freeze, which soon got happily covered by an irresponsibly routine screensaver... I pushed the button. I often do try reconnecting mouse, etc, but usually in vain.
Another regular boot, but was not gonna check logs or some other stuff, but ran internal DiskWarrior, for permissions mostly. Then I put DiskWarrior DVD inside and booted. At the end I had a most unexpected result, something I had only dreamed about: An optimized directory! 0 items out of order!
So, I had to run it on the second disk (old main drive) too. Well... "DW encountered an unexpected error while attempting to show the disk "X" on desktop. Rebuild this disk again. Preview the disk and backup all files from the preview disk. If you report this error please mention the error code 2168, 4902." And, things were frozen, too. But I just booted DW again. Well hell, is this heaven: Despite all, the graph showed 0 items out of order for the second drive too! Seemed too good for truth so I did copy the home folder to main disk although it was just another backup of mostly same stuff... then, no matter that I got a record breaking 32673 items out of order now, "rebuild/replace" and the graph was back to 0, sweet 0... 🙂
There was another little revelation that might've saved a LOT of trouble/time if conceived of before:
I got another screen freeze/lock. This time I didn't try just to reconnect things, but to connect the mouse to the new keyboard and the keyboard straight to the back of the G5. Both had been connected to the monitor... (the Dinovo wireless USB used to be at the back of G5, tho.) What do you know, mouse and keyboard were back to normal!
After all this, everything seems back to perfect again, but I realize I'll probably have to get that memory stick replaced with a new one. Will I have to replace its pair, also..? I guess I could buy some extra memory too, to get the RAM up to 2GB.
Major thanks to Hack for sticking around through this thread. (So far...) Where'd I be without your help..? (Maybe running after Erik towards the sunset.)
It began to seem swapping memory isn't that tricky, so I took the risk and did it the way I understood it. Along the way there had been potential confusion, like when I googled "swapping memory" and it appeared to be something that the computer does by itself... or when E. originally told me I might have a bad memory stick - I thought he can't mean what it sounded like to me because the direct translation of "memory stick" in finnish is an USB flash drive... so I googled "memory stick" and indeed, even in english I saw only USB flash drives... I figured maybe if somebody keeps a bad USBFD attached to the Mac it might cause major trouble... ;D but a suspicion lingered, as it often does because all the terminology is confusing and has many illogical overlaps etc... not to mention that the translations of the words are rarely analogous in implication (and for instance my Mac's default language is finnish, etc etc).
Anyway, where was I. Well, it appears Erik was right from the start.
After I had shuffled the memory sticks I booted ASD again.
Heavens above, it was working! 🙂
So I started the test with whatever default settings there were. Well, I was getting repeats of the one result I had got yesterday. So I tried "continue on error".
It went on to "Testing memory - DIMM0/J11..." and went through 5 different tests, all ending with the same: "ERROR: Data mismatch 4 - TEST FAILED".
Then it started the same on DIMM1/J12 but it was getting tedious as the result was always the same "Data mismatch 4".
I decided I might as well stop the test and try something else. Had a look at the "Stand Alone Tests". I found CPU0 and CPU1, so I had to try... and both passed testing, in green!
Now, ASD did seem a bit complicated, a bit Apple Genius, and I was itching to see what AHT might do.
Quit ASD, booted on AHT. Success again..!
Tried the quick test first. Sure enough, the only problem found was with memory. The error code was:
2MEM/104/4: DIMM0/J11
Of course, I had to try the extended test too... I got the usual suspect, but for some reason with a slightly different code:
2MEM/1/4: DIMM0/J11
Still, I was left wondering about a couple of things:
The test list had Airport, Hard drive, Storage Media, Modem, Memory, and Video card (and yes, I used AHT in finnish but you'll have to trust my translations...)
Why no processors/logic board..? (Well, no display/keyboard/mouse either, but OK...) Or does CPU go under Memory or something..? Or, is *this* the case for ASD...
Also, I had disconnected airport and modem, and AHT did list them as not connected. But the "Video card" test was listed as "not performed". First I thought that might change with the extended test, but didn't. Maybe that should've been selected separately from the default tests..?
OK, after the tests I booted the main drive. Once I got to desktop, there was a Kernel Panic........
I booted in safe mode, checked panic log - voilà, another panic on top of the panic log.....
On next boot I only got an unveiled screen freeze, which soon got happily covered by an irresponsibly routine screensaver... I pushed the button. I often do try reconnecting mouse, etc, but usually in vain.
Another regular boot, but was not gonna check logs or some other stuff, but ran internal DiskWarrior, for permissions mostly. Then I put DiskWarrior DVD inside and booted. At the end I had a most unexpected result, something I had only dreamed about: An optimized directory! 0 items out of order!
So, I had to run it on the second disk (old main drive) too. Well... "DW encountered an unexpected error while attempting to show the disk "X" on desktop. Rebuild this disk again. Preview the disk and backup all files from the preview disk. If you report this error please mention the error code 2168, 4902." And, things were frozen, too. But I just booted DW again. Well hell, is this heaven: Despite all, the graph showed 0 items out of order for the second drive too! Seemed too good for truth so I did copy the home folder to main disk although it was just another backup of mostly same stuff... then, no matter that I got a record breaking 32673 items out of order now, "rebuild/replace" and the graph was back to 0, sweet 0... 🙂
There was another little revelation that might've saved a LOT of trouble/time if conceived of before:
I got another screen freeze/lock. This time I didn't try just to reconnect things, but to connect the mouse to the new keyboard and the keyboard straight to the back of the G5. Both had been connected to the monitor... (the Dinovo wireless USB used to be at the back of G5, tho.) What do you know, mouse and keyboard were back to normal!
After all this, everything seems back to perfect again, but I realize I'll probably have to get that memory stick replaced with a new one. Will I have to replace its pair, also..? I guess I could buy some extra memory too, to get the RAM up to 2GB.
Major thanks to Hack for sticking around through this thread. (So far...) Where'd I be without your help..? (Maybe running after Erik towards the sunset.)
Last edited:
eyoungren
macrumors Nehalem
As long as you get the same type of ram in the same capacity as the bad stick, then you will be fine with the old one (the one that is ok).
We had a bad ram stick on our G5 at work in the first year. Since all four sticks were 1GB, Apple just replaced the bad 1GB stick and life when on as normal. I still had to reformat, reinstall the OS and reload apps though because that one bad stick had caused a "Keys Out of Order" error in the hard drive's B tree directory (the B tree directory is the backup to the main directory). This was something that in 2005-2006 DiskWarrior 3.x couldn't fix.
PS. For what it's worth, never have things like keyboards and mice plugged into anything other than a USB port on the Mac itself. In the case, of mice, they can of course be plugged in to the keyboard, but make sure the keyboard is plugged into the Mac itself and not anything else attached to the Mac via USB.
Glad you found out what the problem was.
So, yeah, the bad ram was causing disk errors which was causing your issues. Bad ram will also cause your kernel panics because it's faulty and the Mac is trying to access memory that is faulty. It panics or freezes as a result.
We had a bad ram stick on our G5 at work in the first year. Since all four sticks were 1GB, Apple just replaced the bad 1GB stick and life when on as normal. I still had to reformat, reinstall the OS and reload apps though because that one bad stick had caused a "Keys Out of Order" error in the hard drive's B tree directory (the B tree directory is the backup to the main directory). This was something that in 2005-2006 DiskWarrior 3.x couldn't fix.
PS. For what it's worth, never have things like keyboards and mice plugged into anything other than a USB port on the Mac itself. In the case, of mice, they can of course be plugged in to the keyboard, but make sure the keyboard is plugged into the Mac itself and not anything else attached to the Mac via USB.
Glad you found out what the problem was.
So, yeah, the bad ram was causing disk errors which was causing your issues. Bad ram will also cause your kernel panics because it's faulty and the Mac is trying to access memory that is faulty. It panics or freezes as a result.
Well, "Keys Out of Order" used to be one of the most common errors on my Disk Utility for years... and "B tree" always got mentions too... I never found out what the heck any of that was about. I've probably had bad RAM for ages (just not quite as bad as recently)...
My Apple monitor has 2 USB ports on the back of it. Maybe they were a mistake by Apple, or would there be any good uses for them..? I remember having read something along the lines you were saying, but guess I forgot, thinking "surely Apple mouse & Apple keyboard should be good there, what else goes there, anyway"...
My Apple monitor has 2 USB ports on the back of it. Maybe they were a mistake by Apple, or would there be any good uses for them..? I remember having read something along the lines you were saying, but guess I forgot, thinking "surely Apple mouse & Apple keyboard should be good there, what else goes there, anyway"...
eyoungren
macrumors Nehalem
Things like cameras, USB flash drives, external drives, perhaps an SD card reader. It's not that you can't attach a keyboard or mouse there, but it's just not good practice. You don't want anything between you and the Mac itself because those connections can fail, as you experienced until you actually connected your keyboard to the Mac itself.
OK. In a practical sense it would seem intuitive because the mouse & keyboard tend to be close to the monitor, where you work, whereas the G5 itself might be somewhere far removed, often approached only for the optical drive. I even start the Mac from the monitor power button. And I needed extra wire to connect the keyboard... Conversely, I don't think it would ever have occurred to me to connect an external drive on the back of the monitor... Now *that* sounds much more unreliable. But I do believe you..! ;D
"Funnily", after booting today the screen got locked again... the "funny" thing here was that when I plugged the keyboard and mouse back into the monitor, they started working.. ;D Not that they did for long. I kept switching around between various USB ports and some worked for a while. Then, I got a kernel panic... Yes, I'm gonna get those new RAM sticks. Maybe even today...
Well, I didn't figure out yet which one it is, or how you're supposed to know (?). The way I understood it the tests just gave error 4 without indicating a particular stick. So guess I'm supposed to swap, using 2 at a time until I know which it is..? At the moment all 4 are in, in the third order so far - after the latest panic I took them out again, along with the battery, planning to go shopping but a couple of searches on phone made it clear enough that those kind of DDR's (and the battery) just aren't readily available in the usual stores... Eventually I put the stuff back in the current order - no problems so far.
There's something though that I've been wondering about but haven't yet tried to do a search on - for quite a few times by now, when I've repaired permissions (on DU or DW) on the main disk, it finds nothing to repair... it gets through quickly and does say perms have been repaired, but there's a blank log. This seems odd, as I'm used to always getting a big log. What makes it seem even stranger is that on the second disk, which I really don't do anything on, I get a "normal" log. But then, I don't really know about what affects the perms anyway...
Anyway, guess I should take some RAM out at some point... maybe tomorrow, as if I get a panic during this session, I'll probably quit for the day. I won't be doing much on the Mac anymore today, anyway.
It's good to know I can still run the G5 on just two 256MB sticks...
There's something though that I've been wondering about but haven't yet tried to do a search on - for quite a few times by now, when I've repaired permissions (on DU or DW) on the main disk, it finds nothing to repair... it gets through quickly and does say perms have been repaired, but there's a blank log. This seems odd, as I'm used to always getting a big log. What makes it seem even stranger is that on the second disk, which I really don't do anything on, I get a "normal" log. But then, I don't really know about what affects the perms anyway...
Anyway, guess I should take some RAM out at some point... maybe tomorrow, as if I get a panic during this session, I'll probably quit for the day. I won't be doing much on the Mac anymore today, anyway.
It's good to know I can still run the G5 on just two 256MB sticks...
Hack5190
macrumors 6502a
One of those test discs should indicate which stick is bad. If not, you can always test with only 2 ram sticks at a time till you find the one that fails (or more than likley starts actink wonky again).
Your 90% of the way to having a working G5 - don't stop now!
Your 90% of the way to having a working G5 - don't stop now!
OK... thanks Hack. On ASD I always got "data mismatch 4" (error 4 on AHT) and "test failed", just getting the same on each DIMM. Maybe I should've continued till end, or done a stand alone test..? OK, now I do realize that *AHT* did give the error code with just one DIMM (DIMM0/J11)... so that's the DIMM slot..? Well, I've since shuffled the sticks again... 😀 (but I might remember...)
Hack5190
macrumors 6502a
My guess is that AHT begins countng at 0 vs carbon based life forms who prefer to start at 1 🙂
Yeah, I was planning on that (as mentioned earlier) but wanted to play safe and DL/burn it on another, flawless Mac, which I don't have ready access to. Tomorrow I might. But I may find out another way sooner...
The G5 has been running perfectly since I shuffled the sticks that last time, so I hated the idea of starting to take out sticks, and opted to do the above. Burned the Ubuntu disk image for the Memtest http://spdemille.blogspot.fi/2014/02/memory-test-memtest-for-powerpc.html. (The other PPC Memtest I found was a paid version.)
However, the disc didn't boot to the menu, but to some terminal... So I decided to run ASD, and completely this time.
Maybe last time I didn't realize the failed tests didn't mean ASD had failed to do its *job*... and as I was getting failures for the first 2 tested DIMMs it didn't occur to me that might indicate 2 or more bad sticks, and I just stopped the test...
As the sticks were in different order this time I got errors at DIMM2/J13 and DIMM3/J14. The other 2 passed.
I also got the same DIMM errors at MLB - what's the difference anyway, the results seem the same on both..?
Last time *AHT*, on the other hand, had only reported error for one DIMM, so I decided to run AHT too.
OK, this time it gave an error code that was different from *both* the last time *and* from the ASD results: 2MLB/10/4: $0005.14fo (not sure if the "o" was o, O or 0, because this is from my handwritten notes......). Why's that, then..? If it was up to AHT, last time I would've replaced one stick, and this time I've no idea what it's telling me.
But according to ASD I should replace the sticks at DIMM2 & 3, right..?
eyoungren
macrumors Nehalem
Yes. And until you get them replaced, pull the memory sticks out so you don't have problems.