KGI: Apple to Launch Cheaper MacBook Air in 2Q 2018

[jecowa]

I believe the Y series has 12 PCIe's. That's enough for four to the SSD, four to Thunderbolt, and enough left for WiFi and Bluetooth.



For whatever reason, Apple equipped the Air's with processors that have a GPU with 48 EU's. Unfortunately, Intel has hung Apple out to dry in terms of an upgrade path for these chips. The only options with equivalent or better GPU's are Iris Plus level parts that have the extra expense of eDRAM. The Mac Mini has gone down the same dead end. Apple needs to switch to inferior graphics, or pony up for a more expensive chip.

Why are the 48 Execution Units such big of a deal? The i5-7300U with HD 620 and 15 W TPD looks like it could be a good choice for a MacBook Air refresh. It only has 24 Execution Units, though.

 

[Appleaker]

Yes, because Steve hated cash cows and profit.

You're saying that as if there's no difference between them as CEO. If you want to defend what Tim Cook has done/not done to the Mac lineup then go ahead, but I don't see the point.

 

[imageWIS]

I get the impression that Some of the MacBook Air fans here are comparing them to out of date MacBook and MacBook Pro hardware.

Yes, my 13” MacBook Pro is a brick compared to the 13” MacBook Air, but that’s because mine is an old model. The current model is essentially is the same weight. Furthermore, the 13” MacBook Pro’s footprint is actually significantly SMALLER than the 13” MacBook Air’s footprint. The 13” Air has a 14% larger footprint than the 13” Pro.

Furthermore, many people have said that the Air is significantly faster than the 12” MacBook. Yes, that is true if you’re talking about the 2015 12” MacBook but it’s not 2015 anymore. I will reiterate that the 2017 is hugely faster than the 2015, and is about the same speed as the current MacBook Air. In benchmarks like PassMark and Geekbench, the 2017 12” is faster than the MacBook Air, but in Cinebench the MacBook Air is slightly faster, by all of 6%.

I was using the weights of the current available models... Apple won't sell you a laptop from 2015.

 

[Appleaker]

For whatever reason, Apple equipped the Air's with processors that have a GPU with 48 EU's. Unfortunately, Intel has hung Apple out to dry in terms of an upgrade path for these chips. The only options with equivalent or better GPU's are Iris Plus level parts that have the extra expense of eDRAM. The Mac Mini has gone down the same dead end. Apple needs to switch to inferior graphics, or pony up for a more expensive chip.

They equipped the Airs with the higher end GPUs because they wanted to go for the higher end GPUs, there's nothing more to it.
Intel haven't abandoned those chips, they have been updated and are currently used in the non-TB 13" MBP. The 15W GT3e graphics were named under the Iris/Iris Plus naming scheme with the Skylake refresh. While the Mac Mini used this line for the entry level model, so did the 21.5" iMac (which has been upgraded since the 15W GT3e graphics renaming).
But you're right about the solution, a good option is to switch to the models with GT2 graphics should the processor be upgraded.

 

[IG88]

It's not about running Windows on Mac.

It's about the hand tuned optimizations developers made for x86 over the years. If a developer cares about performance, it's not as simple as feeding code into a compiler and getting a program for ARM.

Developers would have to develop for three platforms: Windows, MacOS, and MacOS (Air). There's enough trouble as it is getting some of the serious commercial software on MacOS.

What types of serious commercial software are going to be run on a 2 lb 12 inch MacBook? Compiling MS Office for a new Apple ARM chip isn't going to be difficult for Microsoft.
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Nope. Chris Lattner already said bitcode is uarch specific

Thanks, just found that. You're correct, not bitcode, but they can compile the same app for multiple hardware slices. But it wouldn't be Apple...the developer has to perform that function. Which means Microsoft would have to have a dev kit from Apple or send devs to Apple to work on it.

John Siracusa: Going back to the “slice” thing, that's terminology from the Mach-O format where you get to put different architectures in executables, or is that different?

Chris Lattner: Yeah. I think that's technology that goes all the way back to NeXT when NeXT supported really heterogenous different architectures like PA-RISC and SPARC and PowerPC and Intel, all back in the NeXT days. It allows you to compile your application with multiple slices, and then there's a tool called Lipo which sticks them together, and at runtime, the OS picks the slice that best matches your CPU in practice. So an app developer can support many different types of architectures, and the OS just does the right thing.

In today's world, it's very common to build an iOS app, for example, for both ARM64 and ARM32. The way that works, in the simplest case, is that it's just two different binaries that are stuck together and then the OS picks the right one to run.

 

[QCassidy352]

I was using the weights of the current available models... Apple won't sell you a laptop from 2015.

Sure they will... the aforementioned MacBook Air.

 

[EugW]

I was using the weights of the current available models... Apple won't sell you a laptop from 2015.

Yes, I was just agreeing with you, saying that some of the other posters here may be posting incorrect comparisons because they are using info that is several years behind the times now.

My point was that back in 2015 the MacBook Air USED to be faster than the 12" MacBook and that the 13" Air USED to be lighter than the 13" Pro, but neither is the case anymore. If you get 2017 models, the 12" MacBook is as fast as the MacBook Air (sometimes slightly faster, and sometimes slightly slower), and the 13" Pro is the same weight as the 13" Air (within 2%).

In real world terms, CPU performance (vs the MacBook) and weight (vs the MacBook Pro) are no longer advantages of the Air, even though that was true back in 2015.

And if my prediction is true with chip upgrades in 2019, multithreaded performance of the MacBook will actually be way faster than the MacBook Air. All signs are are pointing to the MacBook going quad-core in 2019, whereas I'd expect the Air to stagnate further (assuming it's not discontinued completely). I think the chance of the of the MacBook Air getting even 6th gen Skylake are slim, but I'm not willing to rule that out 100% just yet. However, even with Skylake, it would remain dual-core, without much of a speed boost.

And of course, all the 7th gen chips have serious multimedia decoder/encoder upgrades compared to 5th gen Broadwell and even 6th gen Skylake. A 2017 Kaby Lake Core m3 MacBook 1.2 GHz can do stuff without even breaking a sweat, that a 2015 Skylake Core i7-6700K 4.0 GHz iMac can't even do.

 

[entropys]

The reasons why the MBA sells multiples in comparison to the MacBook is the MacBook is cripple when it comes to ports and it costs more. Fix those and you no longer need an MBA.
It would be easier to just whack a higher res screen into the MBA though.

 

[EugW]

The reasons why the MBA sells multiples in comparison to the MacBook is the MacBook is cripple when it comes to ports and it costs more. Fix those and you no longer need an MBA.
It would be easier to just whack a higher res screen into the MBA though.

All they need is a second USB-C port and a US$100 price drop IMO.

But if the MacBook got two USB-C ports, then non-TB MacBook Pro would start to look more stupid. IMO, that thing should have 4 ports like its TB brother. It's a "Pro" after all.

 

[jecowa]

All they need is a second USB-C port and a US$100 price drop IMO.

But if the MacBook got two USB-C ports, then non-TB MacBook Pro would start to look more stupid. IMO, that thing should have 4 ports like its TB brother. It's a "Pro" after all.

I think they gimped the MacBook Pro Escape to help encourage people to pick the MacBook Pro TouchBar instead. This would give them data that could help them justify expanding and improving the TouchBar. I'm not sure how well the TouchBar models are doing, though. The rumor of a TouchBoard keyboard-replacement worries me a bit.

 

[kironin]

I'll be buying so long as they don't make any drastic changes to ports or power cord. Any upgrades in speed/display would be nice. My 2012 is still cruising along.

Agreed. my mid-2013 11" is cruising along too.

 

[Delgibbons]

Kudos and a tip of the hat to Intel for milking their 40 yr old design.

But let's also remember that it's partly luck rather than genius. Luck that Windows and Intel created a symbiotic duopoly that was difficult to crack because of its ubiquitousness than anything else.

That ubiquitousness has been broken up. It's gone. Over. Done. That ubiquitousness, and everything that goes with it, such as economies of scale have been handed off to ARM economies. The R&D money is now in the hands of ARM chipmakers.

There is no way Intel comes out of this unscathed. like any 40-something, X86 has nothing to look out for but a nice retirement. It's been nice. But like everything else, there comes a time when everything comes to an end.

Amazing to think that the ARM all started with Acorn back in 80's British schools with the BBC Micro 128 then the first true ARM in the BBC Micro Archimedes A3000... I remember those days well lol

 

[snortpig]

I think they gimped the MacBook Pro Escape to help encourage people to pick the MacBook Pro TouchBar instead. This would give them data that could help them justify expanding and improving the TouchBar. I'm not sure how well the TouchBar models are doing, though. The rumor of a TouchBoard keyboard-replacement worries me a bit.

This works for people who are already on the fence but I think if they do this again with the 2018 models I'll either be getting a refurb 2015 or even a Dell XPS.

 

[Tomasulu]

They like to say all their products may all be placed on a table. Well not if you include all the models of each product range. I hate the wwsd crowd but I do suspect Steve would have either killed the MacBook Air or do something good to it. Don’t get it started with the mini

 

[jecowa]

This works for people who are already on the fence but I think if they do this again with the 2018 models I'll either be getting a refurb 2015 or even a Dell XPS.

I feel like they have to make the Touch Bar design last at least 3 generations, then they are free to do a redesign. They seem to be using all their laptop designs for at least 3 years before changing it up. I'm hoping they at least change up the TouchBar to make it less intrusive. These are things I would like for them to change on the TouchBar if they are going to keep it:

* Bring back the Escape and Function keys between the Touch Bar and the rest of the keyboard. These keys are missed by many and the function keys will act as a buffer to prevent the TouchBar from accidentally being pressed as often.
* Add an option to disabled the TouchBar. The TouchBar is a screen and screens use power. It'd be nice to be able to turn this thing off.
* Maybe add taptic feedback to the Touch Bar so users can feel when they press a button on it.

 

[eVolcre]

Bring back the 11”AIR (ultimate portable machine), take off the bezels and fit a 13” retina screen in there. Leave everything else the same ESPECIALLY the keyboard. Instant buy.

The MacBook 12 is a non starter because of the single port and the **** keyboard. I’m still rocking a 2011 AIR for backup duty and ended up switching to a thinkpad yoga just for the keyboard. OS doesn’t matter much to me on my main laptop. I’m usually in a browser or MS office or a mail client.

I was planning to shift my workflow over to iPad Pro but if a 11” body MBA comes out I’ll grab one in addition to the iPad. Simply can’t be beat for portable use. One of my favorite apple machines ever.

 

[bradl]

I'll be buying so long as they don't make any drastic changes to ports or power cord. Any upgrades in speed/display would be nice. My 2012 is still cruising along.

I'm on the bubble on this. I love the form factor and feel of the MBA, but most of the work I am doing now would actually require me to get the MBP. With the latest models requiring High Sierra, and as flaky as HS has been, I'd rather get the latest model instead of dropping back a year and getting the older model.

That said, my mid-2011 13" MBA is still working like a tank, and that's been from Mountain Lion all the way up to Sierra.

BL.

 

[eVolcre]

I'm on the bubble on this. I love the form factor and feel of the MBA, but most of the work I am doing now would actually require me to get the MBP. With the latest models requiring High Sierra, and as flaky as HS has been, I'd rather get the latest model instead of dropping back a year and getting the older model.

That said, my mid-2011 13" MBA is still working like a tank, and that's been from Mountain Lion all the way up to Sierra.

BL.

Great machine. I’ve got the 11” version same year. Battery life has dropped down. Had one issue where the battery swelled up and distorted the case. A cheap battery replacement fixed it. WiFi cars stopped working and I bought a mini linksys WiFi modem connected to the USB port. Other than that it still does what I need it to do. I’ve got the thinkpad so the MBA is now the media server but like you said, it’s a tank. Absolutely perfect form factor. I’d just pick it up and walk around the house. With anything bigger, even the 13” , it requires more thought because the mind says it’s a laptop.

 

[QCassidy352]

All they need is a second USB-C port and a US$100 price drop IMO.

But if the MacBook got two USB-C ports, then non-TB MacBook Pro would start to look more stupid. IMO, that thing should have 4 ports like its TB brother. It's a "Pro" after all.

I think they need SOME laptop priced under $1000 for psychological reasons. If they only drop the price on the MacBook by $100 then they gotta keep the air to keep that price point.

At $100 less and one port more, the MacBook would offer SOME value compared to the non-TB pro. Still not great, but some. Right now, it’s a ridiculously bad value unless you just really, really need to get rid of that extra pound.

 

[smulji]

Me neither. I don't expect to see any real update to the design, maybe slightly rejigged configurations with the savings they are making on the components (must be fairly significant given how dated a machine it is) passed on to the consumer. Priced around $850 ish.

If Apple plans on lowering the price of the MBA, no way they add retina display. If anything, I would like the MBA to have an option to to be upgraded to 16GB RAM

 

[jecowa]

Great machine. I’ve got the 11” version same year. Battery life has dropped down. Had one issue where the battery swelled up and distorted the case. A cheap battery replacement fixed it. WiFi cars stopped working and I bought a mini linksys WiFi modem connected to the USB port. Other than that it still does what I need it to do. I’ve got the thinkpad so the MBA is now the media server but like you said, it’s a tank. Absolutely perfect form factor. I’d just pick it up and walk around the house. With anything bigger, even the 13” , it requires more thought because the mind says it’s a laptop.

The 11-inch MacBook Air was cool, but I didn't like that it was 16:9 instead of 16:10.

If Apple plans on lowering the price of the MBA, on way they add retina display. If anything, I would like the MBA to have an option to to be upgraded to 16GB RAM

I don't think they're going to be able to add a Retina display while making it cheaper. I'm not expecting the cheaper MacBook Air to be something desireable. It will probably be like a non-Retina MacBook with a single USB-C port and a really low-end CPU like a Celeron.

 

[smulji]

You're saying that as if there's no difference between them as CEO. If you want to defend what Tim Cook has done/not done to the Mac lineup then go ahead, but I don't see the point.

Point is that Steve loved cash cows & profit just as much as Tim Cook. It was under Steve Jobs that Apple focused on profits vs market share.

 

[Robnsn2015]

Point is that Steve loved cash cows & profit just as much as Tim Cook. It was under Steve Jobs that Apple focused on profits vs market share.

I agree. For example, Apple was keeping the iPod classic (hard drive based) around past its expiration date when Steve Jobs was alive because it was still making a little bit of money.

 

[rockarollr]

is macrumors Ming-Chi Kuo's personal blog now or something?

how is this guy the only source for anything anymore?

I have been wondering the same thing myself.

 

[MacHiavelli]

We know Intel are fabricating ARM chips and we know the current ARM chips in iPads are plenty powerful enough for a lot of consumers.

We also know project marzipan will let iOS apps run on Macs.

The lines are being blurred and ARM Macs are certainly coming. They might not replace Intel chips across the Mac range from day one, but they will eventually.

And for people saying that the ARM chips we have now aren't powerful enough for Macs, that's because those chips are designed for iPads and iPhones. There's no reason why Apple can't make an ARM chip capable of running a Mac, but they're not going to release such a chip right now and put it in a phone.