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Actually what it means is that the data is inconclusive since you can't determine how people answered the question (did they select one OR did they select more).

That would not be how a good survey would be designed. Nielsen has been doing this for a long time. While they may have some questions that are inadvertently ambiguous, it is unlikely that they made the amateurish error of provide two alternative answers that overlap without making it clear whether the choices were exclusive or not.

Do you think, perhaps, I am incorrect in assuming Nielsen knows how to perform a competent survey? :)
 
That would not be how a good survey would be designed. Nielsen has been doing this for a long time. While they may have some questions that are inadvertently ambiguous, it is unlikely that they made the amateurish error of provide two alternative answers that overlap without making it clear whether the choices were exclusive or not.

Do you think, perhaps, I am incorrect in assuming Nielsen knows how to perform a competent survey? :)

No. I'm not questioning Nielsen's aggregation of data. I'm questioning the way it's presented and being interpreted. Since Nielsen has not (to my knowledge) explained how the survey was taken NOR can it begin to know the way every person filled it out (how could they) - the data presented is exactly what they gathered. INTERPRETATION of that data is a bit different and open to debate.

Do you sincerely want to argue on how you, I or someone else might answer a survey and whether or not we would check off everything we wanted and whether or not we would differentiate between products.

For example - Kindle is ubiquitous for eReader. If I was thinking I want an eReader - I might (I said might) out down Kindle. I might not put down any other device that serves as an eReader because that's just how I roll.

Another person might check off everything that COULD read an eBook.

Follow?

So while the chart is interesting. It's like I said - up there with Analyst's predictions and the like.
 
The only thing I find interesting is that people keep talking about kids as being some sort of sheep, either to Apple specifically or to consumerism in general.

Meanwhile, iPads are selling at a percent fairly well above 50 (of the tablet market) in reality, yet only 48% of kids want them, per this story. Maybe the 6-12yo's are doing better than the 20somethings here at MR on consumerism.

Apple is barley above the 50% mark for sales.

http://thenextweb.com/mobile/2012/11/05/apple-drops-to-50-4-tablet-market-share-in-q3-as-samsung-grabs-18-4-and-amazon-takes-9-0/
 
No. I'm not questioning Nielsen's aggregation of data. I'm questioning the way it's presented and being interpreted. Since Nielsen has not (to my knowledge) explained how the survey was taken NOR can it begin to know the way every person filled it out (how could they) - the data presented is exactly what they gathered. INTERPRETATION of that data is a bit different and open to debate.

Do you sincerely want to argue on how you, I or someone else might answer a survey and whether or not we would check off everything we wanted and whether or not we would differentiate between products.

For example - Kindle is ubiquitous for eReader. If I was thinking I want an eReader - I might (I said might) out down Kindle. I might not put down any other device that serves as an eReader because that's just how I roll.

Another person might check off everything that COULD read an eBook.

Follow?

So while the chart is interesting. It's like I said - up there with Analyst's predictions and the like.

Yes, but you assumed in your interpretation of the chart that "non-iPhones" was available as an option that was separate from "Android phone". So you added the numbers to come up with a total that was greater than the number for iPhone.

What I am saying is that you were making a leap, and that it seems much more likely that the number being presented for "non-iPhones" is already a roll-up of all the specific non-iPhone results, and already includes Androids. Sso, your conclusion, which is that the ACTUAL percent of respondents who wnted non-iPhones is something like the sum of the number that Nielsen presents for non-iPhones PLUS the number for Androids, etc., seems incorrect to me. I'm basing this on the fact that your interpretation doesn't jibe with my assumptions that Nielsen is highly competent at presenting data and constructing surveys.

You had to go through an extra step to come up with a number that THEY ALREADY PRESENT in the graph.
 
iPads And Computers Are Great For Kids

It's interesting reading these posts and guessing which posters have kids and which ones don't. As a parent of a 5 year old, one who has been playing with an iPad since he was around 3, I can tell you that managed properly, it's a great advantage for your child to be involved in computers, especially tablets.

The teaching apps for kids are great. My son went into both preschool and kindergarden with a lead on many kids with regards to spelling, math, identification of shapes, colors, vocabulary, etc. And being 'perceived' as 'smart' as early as possible in life is just as important as actually being smart in this competitive world.

My kid is knocking it out of the park at kindergarden; he's popular with his teachers and a large part of that is his comfort with learning and the jump start on learning he received because of our iPad. That can carry over into adult life. People think I'm 'smart' because I'm proficient in Microsoft Excel (macros and pivot tables, people) and can type above 30 WPM. :p

Getting your child access to a tablet, even if it's a shared family tablet, IMHO, is a no-brainer. When he reaches 1st grade, he's getting a Chromebook (locked down at the router level of course!). Not because I want to spoil him, but because I want him to be competitive in a future world where he'll have to compete for jobs globally.:D
 
Yur basically teaching then to spend spend spend if you give your kid a ipad, its a device to consume and nothing else.

Maybe when YOU give a kid an ipad. But I actually know how to give a kid something that will be used for educational purposes and not just as a babysitter. Whether it's an iPad, a computer etc.

The kids in my life use their things to learn and create because I don't just dump it on the floor and walk away. You should learn how to do that and try it sometime.

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If the enormous shoe fits ...

2847322805_b0a1f1e1fa.jpg
 
Yes, but you assumed in your interpretation of the chart that "non-iPhones" was available as an option that was separate from "Android phone". So you added the numbers to come up with a total that was greater than the number for iPhone.

Correct. My initial assertion or comment was a product of me not (regretfully) not paying attention to the % ;) So yes - it was wrong to add them up.

I still stand by my assertion that the chart is relatively useless :)
 
It's interesting reading these posts and guessing which posters have kids and which ones don't. As a parent of a 5 year old, one who has been playing with an iPad since he was around 3, I can tell you that managed properly, it's a great advantage for your child to be involved in computers, especially tablets.

The teaching apps for kids are great. My son went into both preschool and kindergarden with a lead on many kids with regards to spelling, math, identification of shapes, colors, vocabulary, etc. And being 'perceived' as 'smart' as early as possible in life is just as important as actually being smart in this competitive world.

My kid is knocking it out of the park at kindergarden; he's popular with his teachers and a large part of that is his comfort with learning and the jump start on learning he received because of our iPad. That can carry over into adult life. People think I'm 'smart' because I'm proficient in Microsoft Excel (macros and pivot tables, people) and can type above 30 WPM. :p

Getting your child access to a tablet, even if it's a shared family tablet, IMHO, is a no-brainer. When he reaches 1st grade, he's getting a Chromebook (locked down at the router level of course!). Not because I want to spoil him, but because I want him to be competitive in a future world where he'll have to compete for jobs globally.:D

Fantastic post.

I'm a parent of a 4-1/2 year old that's doing fantastic in VPK, has outstanding speaking, reading and logic skills, is quite sociable, sings, plays a few chords on the piano, and yeah, even climbs trees - who has has supervised access to an iPad and occasionally a MBP (the former since about age 3).
 
Honestly, if Apple supported a physical controller,

You're in luck. Because they do.

Now if the games would just support it.

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yet only 48% of kids want them, per this story.

for all we know, only 48% of kids want one cause the other 52% already have one. Along with their iphone 5, their Retina Macbooks etc

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That would not be how a good survey would be designed. Nielsen has been doing this for a long time.

Just like how they count a mere 25k houses out of many million to decide what the popular tv shows are. And then I see 20 million unique letters come in for a show that I worked on that was cancelled because Nielsen says we could only be getting 8 million viewers. Hmmm okay.

Sorry but I never take them at their word on these surveys when they dont reveal how they got the numbers, in detail.

Then again, I feel the same about basically all of these surveys. When you look at the details they are all suspect due to low counts, not really random selection etc
 
Fantastic post.

I'm a parent of a 4-1/2 year old that's doing fantastic in VPK, has outstanding speaking, reading and logic skills, is quite sociable, sings, plays a few chords on the piano, and yeah, even climbs trees - who has has supervised access to an iPad and occasionally a MBP (the former since about age 3).

Agree - good post and good comments.

Not that my daughter is in this demographic (at all) but we're making a conscious effort to not have any TV for her first two years. Whether we'll succeed in that remains to be seen - but so far so good. As for the iPad - we'll see. I know we won't introduce it before she's 1.

I believe in technology. And it's clearly part of our children's future. However I also believe in other methods of creativity. The iPad is great. But I want my daughter to put together real puzzles. I want her to play with real blocks. I want her to paint and use clay that are real and not virtual. I want her to play an instrument - not an app.

Again - I am not against technology. I just think it's also good - like with anything else - to have balance.
 
Not because I want to spoil him, but because I want him to be competitive in a future world

There's the key really. The future. Like it or not, computers are a huge part of that future. If we want our kids to succeed they need these skills. It's up to us to teach them that computers are just another part of the world just as we learned about tvs and phones. One of many options, all of which should be explored. It's up to us to mold their attitudes just as we mold them about everything else (or should be)
 
I just think it's also good - like with anything else - to have balance.

Balance. You have to have it and teach it to them. From day one. Whether it's eating junk food or healthy food, watching tv or playing outside, using 'real' things or digital ones.

Like I said about Jeremiah's comment, computers are the future and we adults are the ones that will mold how the kids look at that future and all things in balance is a major part of that. Or should be
 
Agree - good post and good comments.

Not that my daughter is in this demographic (at all) but we're making a conscious effort to not have any TV for her first two years. Whether we'll succeed in that remains to be seen - but so far so good. As for the iPad - we'll see. I know we won't introduce it before she's 1.

I believe in technology. And it's clearly part of our children's future. However I also believe in other methods of creativity. The iPad is great. But I want my daughter to put together real puzzles. I want her to play with real blocks. I want her to paint and use clay that are real and not virtual. I want her to play an instrument - not an app.

Again - I am not against technology. I just think it's also good - like with anything else - to have balance.

Oh yeah, we do quite a bit of, I guess you'd call it physical play (funny having to differentiate) - real play-dough, real glue, paper (she got a bunch of boxes of craft supplies), skating, boarding over at the beach. She's also big into pretend play, so she'll watch something like Wall-e, then want to play it, make Wall-e/Eve cutouts - TV is used to entertain and educate as a supplement to real world activities.

Last night we got a fashion show, lighting, music, several outfit changes ... pretty amazing :D

I know this trope is overused, but take in every second, they grow up fast ... I can't believe how old my little one is already, I'll swear she was just one (I posted a recent picture and a friend was stunned).

:)
 
I don't know where to go with this one. When I was younger I wanted computers for christmas (and once, I got one!) However, those cost a lot more than iPads do.
 
Fantastic post.

I'm a parent of a 4-1/2 year old that's doing fantastic in VPK, has outstanding speaking, reading and logic skills, is quite sociable, sings, plays a few chords on the piano, and yeah, even climbs trees - who has supervised access to an iPad and occasionally a MBP (the former since about age 3).

I bolded the major part of your post. Thing is - I personally am quite split up in this. Yes, well-crafted learning apps will engage a kid and make them...well..learn stuff pretty good.

But I think you just have to check quite often that your kid is not only playing Angry Birds. :D

Nevertheless I really think it is rather more essential for a kid to also learn significant motory skills, so that tree climbing part really made me happy for her.

And - gee - talk about spoiled kids. I can't remember receiving a christmas gift that was beyond that magic 100 bucks mark. So coming back to the point of supervision - I'd never even consider giving them an iPad of their own. They can have one to play with for about an hour.

But giving them one that is theirs...nope, too much for my conservative part. :rolleyes:
 
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I was surprised when a local station was asking kids in a mall what they wanted. These were about 8-10 years old. The first said iPad Mini, second Xbox, third iPad. This was before I had even seen an iPad mini commercial on TV.

How do 8 year olds find out about iPad minis before the ads even start rolling?
 
I bolded the major part of your post. Thing is - I personally am quite split up in this. Yes, well-crafted learning apps will engage a kid and make them...well..learn stuff pretty good.

But I think you just have to check quite often that your kid is not only playing Angry Birds. :D

Nevertheless I really think it is rather more essential for a kid to also learn significant motory skills, so that tree climbing part really made me happy for her.

And - gee - talk about spoiled kids. I can't remember receiving a christmas gift that was beyond that magic 100 bucks mark. So coming back to the point of supervision - I'd never even consider giving them an iPad of their own. They can have one to play with for about an hour.

But giving them one that is theirs...nope, too much for my conservative part. :rolleyes:

Since she has her own, and we've got install apps password protected, it actually makes things much easier. Her iPad is my hand-me-down iPad 1, it's really latched down (content limited, no transactions without password, etc.), with nothing installed that we wouldn't want her to have access to, no active email accounts, etc. (vs. my iPad with, umm, Angry Birds :D )

To be honest, it does in fact have AB, but she doesn't spend much time with pure games, she enjoys the creative type apps, the video/learning stuff ... in fact, she really enjoys taking pictures and photo editing them but her 1st gen doesn't have a camera. Very seriously considering a Mini for her for the camera, easier portability, would get a bigger capacity for movies/shows on the road.

Her favorite app is ABC Mouse, that's actually a PC based online learning system, requires a computer, so that's her very supervised use of my wife's MBP.
 
Strongly disagree here. Graphics are part of it, but not the whole story. These machines are both currently slow in many ways, the GPU and CPU are architecture from '04 I believe, that is ancient in tech years. Graphics will greatly improve just as they always do, no question about it. Look at a PS2>PS3 game or XBOX>360 game for comparison and those were 4-6 years between releases. A lot changes.
Compare launch title current gen games to recent current gen games; theres a huge difference. Then compare a modern next gen gaming system (a high end PC) to a modern console game. There is little difference beyond tessellation, higher res textures. The only thing the next console gen will bring will be that - plus initial support for 4k. That's hardware though, services is where next gen will shine.

If the 360 utilizes blu ray as the P4 will then you can this time around have more larger scale games and bigger worlds. Not that BS Sony was spouting because the P3 even with Blu ray was too crippled in the RAM dept. to do much with it, as well as the read speed of their drive was too slow.
No true at all. Game sizes aren't limited by the medium. Even games like Skyrim, Oblivion etc, don't take up a full DVD9 let alone a Bluray. PC exclusives have the option of being unlimited, but they're not.

Speaking of RAM that is a major gimp currently as well. There is no magical process where these systems have untapped potential. That is developer speak they always use for sales. Everyone in the gaming community knows that. Uncharted 2 was about as good as the P3 could do, and Gears 2 was about the best the 360 could do. Both were in 2009.
It sort of is true (I work in console game development). New processes and techniques occur very late into console cycles. One thing Halo 4 did that previous games didn't was to process only what the player sees, where previously it would process around a radius and a long distance infront. All these little things to hammer out the last bit of performance. Uncharted 3 improves upon 2, Halo 4 looks better than Gears 2, etc.

It will be the same as every other time. Once the new ones finally do come out people will be in awe of what the developers accomplish with them. Some more casual types are fine with bad hardware for another 5 years, you all can have it since they will make games for the 360 and P3 after the new ones, a lot of us and it is a lot are wanting new stuff and have been for awhile.
If you want bleeding edge then get a PC. Console games are never about amazing graphics, their selling point is how easy it is to get into the game, about sitting back with a TV and exclusive titles.
 
Fantastic post.

I'm a parent of a 4-1/2 year old that's doing fantastic in VPK, has outstanding speaking, reading and logic skills, is quite sociable, sings, plays a few chords on the piano, and yeah, even climbs trees - who has has supervised access to an iPad and occasionally a MBP (the former since about age 3).

LOL! You can't keep them away from the gear! When my son was born, we moved our computer desk into the living room to make it easier to watch him. Little did I know, what's mine is mine but also his.
 

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But giving them one that is theirs...nope, too much for my conservative part. :rolleyes:

If you think trying to decide when to give them access to computers and tablets is bad, wait until you have to figure out when's the best age for a phone. Have some family going through this right now and I'm not looking forward to that decision. Especially considering that the definition of a 'phone' might be radically different in a few years (yeah, I'm looking at you, Google Glass!)
 
I plan to get iPad Minis for my 3 kids for Christmas. Cost: about $1,000.

My father bought me and my brothers an Apple II+ for Christmas. Cost with monitor, disk drive and joystick: about $2,000. That's in 1980-81 dollars (which would be over $4,000 now).

There's nothing extravagant about an iPad Mini for a kid for Christmas. Good grief people. I spent more than $300 for 8 MB of RAM for my PowerMac 6100 once upon a time.
 
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