About 2 months ago, a student at my college made a bomb threat and claimed he had anthrax. From the start, most everyone knew this was a distraught student and was full of sh*t but the school didn't hesitate in cancelling classes and evacuating and sealing off campus. And fortunately, there was no bomb, and the power was powdered sugar. But they didn't hesitate, and would rather be safe than sorry. There are 2 confirmed shootings at VT and the administration sits around on their ass for 2 hours deciding what to do? Were they too busy reading My Pet Goat or something?
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Killing spree at VA Tech...
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About 2 months ago, a student at my college made a bomb threat and claimed he had anthrax. From the start, most everyone knew this was a distraught student and was full of sh*t but the school didn't hesitate in cancelling classes and evacuating and sealing off campus. And fortunately, there was no bomb, and the power was powdered sugar. But they didn't hesitate, and would rather be safe than sorry. There are 2 confirmed shootings at VT and the administration sits around on their ass for 2 hours deciding what to do? Were they too busy reading My Pet Goat or something?
While I think a bomb threat is quite different from a shooting. And how big is your school may I ask?
This campus is 25,000 people, effectively a small city, especially if you consider the dorms with people living in them. You don't evacuate an entire city because of one murder do you? I'm sure the administration was trying to wrap their heads around the magnitude of the event before making a knee-jerk reaction.
Yes, in this case it was the "wrong" decision to make and it cost them. But you can't just cry the sky is falling every time something tragic happens.
I'm not saying they made the right decisions, I'm just saying your very quick to judge them when the full story hasn't even come out as of yet.
My heart goes out to the students, family, and community at Virginia Tech. There will be ruminations about what should have, could have been done, but this is neither the time nor place.
go hokies!
so sad to hear about the shooting. even sadder that the community wasnt warned after the first part, and two hours later he killed even more people.
one thing's for certain, the murderer had mental problems.
so sad to hear about the shooting. even sadder that the community wasnt warned after the first part, and two hours later he killed even more people.
one thing's for certain, the murderer had mental problems.
The entire town, students included, is smaller than the number of students at VT. But I think the point still stands. I'd hardly consider the campus a small city, there's a huge difference between a college campus and a city, even if the campus is bigger than the city. Perhaps it would've been a kneejerk reaction, but for safety's sake, they should've cancelled, because you never know....
For a guy with a NO W avatar I find it odd that you are so caught up in the culture of fear created by events like this.
But this is getting political again, so I shall close my comments in this thread with "horrible event, but not the end the world"
I'm not scared, nor am I trying to make anyone else scared. Every day, I go into the same building where there was once a student making bomb threats, claiming he had anthrax, and assaulting police offers with a knife. This stuff doesn't scare me or anyone else I know. Its a risk you take every day you set foot outside your front door. And canceling classes for the day would not have been fear mongering, it would have been doing something that's in the best interests of the students and faculty.
So you send out the email at 7:45 when you've ascertained what's transpired (yes, the call came in at 7:15, but the police have to get to the scene, take down statements to find out what happened, inform the admin, etc.). Who do you expect is going to read the email? Quite a few of those students, faculty, and staff are already away from their computers on their way in to campus and the classroom buildings. Even those who aren't may well never read the email before they leave in the morning. The first thing I do in the morning sure isn't reading my email.
The admin acted on the info it had -- a case of domestic violence. You don't shut down a whole campus that size based on a single incident of this nature. I spent 8 years of my life on that campus and I'd willingly go back tomorrow and spend the rest of it there.
Hindsight is 20/20.
if 2 people are murdered on campus, and the killer was NOT found, the school has the responsibility as surrogate parents to close the campus until either the killer was found, or the police had secured the entire campus.
An unidentified man is restrained during a manhunt on the Virginia Tech campus in Blacksburg, Va.
the suspect was an Asian man wearing a black coat, thats why they are holding down that Asian.
The school, a state agency, has no in loco parentis authority. And how do you close the school? Turn away all the people coming on to campus? What if the killer has already fled campus? Or do you evacuate everybody? After all, the attack occurred IN a dorm.
We can second-guess all we want. The reality of the situation is that President Steger did what he felt was best. Second-guessing him, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, is all too easy.
Conjecture on your part. They also handcuffed anyone who did not comply with their orders to get down and raise their hands according to several eyewitness reports posted on the Washington Post and Roanoke Times websites.
Stick to the facts.
But all it takes is for one person who does read the e-mail to call or text a few of his friends, who call a few of their friends, etc. It wouldn't have gotten everyone off campus, but it would've gotten a lot of people off campus.
When our classes were canceled due to our little threat, they sent out an e-mail, but a lot of people didn't check their mail but heard from word of mouth from others who did get the e-mail. Yeah, some people did come to campus and didn't realize that something was going on until police turned them away, but a lot of students found out beforehand one way or another. FWIW, the first e-mails from our thing were sent out at 7:30 AM and the first classes are at 8.
That does not quite work. If you have a shooting, let just say downtown MRville, it's an isolated case. you could not shut down the city. VA Tech is a city. So one thing happens. An incident happens in a dorm room, everything looks as though the person has completed what they sent out to do. There was no reason what so ever for anyone to think that it was not over.
you are wrong about the in loco parentis. ever hear of 'helicopter parenting'? schools of higher education are now marketing to both students and parents because ethics of late have shown increased transparency between school affairs and parent knowledge.
MIT has been sued twice by parents of MIT students who died. one died of alcohol poisoning during a hazing incident; the other one killed herself by setting herself aflame in her dorm room. MIT settled out of court with both families and admitted responsibility for their loved ones. why? because when kids leave the home for the first time to a different region for college, they expect their child to be well taken care of. Now, MIT has changed their policies on drinking, and have increased the level of training for RA's.
whenever lives are concerned, it's better to err on the side of caution. the campus should have been secured before activity continued. those students were caught unawares because why? they thought it was an isolated incident? now 33 are dead.
You've got about 14,000 on-campus students. Some will be in class. Some will be walking around the rather large campus. Some will be asleep, showering, etc. Word-of-mouth will only reach a fraction of them -- and even then it'll be fragmentary information that gets passed on. Ever play the game "Whisper"? You take a large group, whisper to the person next to you, and they pass what you said on to the next one and so on. Almost never comes out intact on the other end.
Not to mention all the off-campus students and faculty/staff.
What would happen is you'd have lots of people all over the place in your scenario -- just as you would if you went ahead and let classes continue.
Tell you what: next time a community of 40,000-some (population of VT + Blacksburg) has two murders, let's all demand that the mayor and police chief shut down the town until the perpetrator is apprehended. Think any community will take that action?
This is by far the worst news I've heard in a while not related to the war.
I'm shocked about a comment read on cnn.com where it was said that at 7am when the first shooting took place it took 2 hours for an e-mail to go out about the issue and even then it was only to notify students they were looking into the shooting. 2 hours, email, looking into it....sad..
I'm shocked about a comment read on cnn.com where it was said that at 7am when the first shooting took place it took 2 hours for an e-mail to go out about the issue and even then it was only to notify students they were looking into the shooting. 2 hours, email, looking into it....sad..
If it would've saved one life, it would've been worth it.
I still don't see the parallels between a college campus and a town. 2 different things, and it's much more feasible to shut down a campus than an entire town, even if the campus is large.
Apples and oranges. MIT is not a state agency. VA is not MA, although both are commonwealths. Laws differ from state to state. Virginia state universities have NO in loco parentis authority. Furthermore, state immunity essentially ensures that the Commonwealth of Virginia and VT cannot be held liable for this.
Everybody who keeps on talking about securing the campus: have you ever been to VT? It's not a small campus. It takes about 5 minutes to cross the Drillfield on foot. Students have 15 minutes to change classes. Blacksburg is a small town with small streets. Block off campus and you'd have incoming traffic jammed up for miles -- and then what if the shooter is outside the campus? He might well go on his rampage there.
The ONLY one to blame for this is the shooter.
Interesting interview of one of the kids who was shot...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=67f_1176750363
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=67f_1176750363
lol. Speaking of Halo 2, my brother's old friend attends there. Luckily he was visiting his brother play in a Halo tourny.
when the parents sue VT we will see if VA has no in loco parentis authority. eventually the campus police did secure the campus; they barricaded all entrances to the campus. that happened too late.
im really not concerned about assigning blame as i am sympathizing with the families of loved ones.