Killing spree at VA Tech...

[SpaceMagic]

As a human being, I feel for their families and friends. As a student also, I can't fathom what has happened. I just don't understand it at all and the panic just makes me tear.

I'm not so keen on the President of VT though, he's a bit cold.

 

[TechHistorian]

when the parents sue VT we will see if VA has no in loco parentis authority. eventually the campus police did secure the campus; they barricaded all entrances to the campus. that happened too late.

im really not concerned about assigning blame as i am sympathizing with the families of loved ones.

In Virginia, you cannot sue the state or a state agency. Period. Black-letter law. The parents can try to sue, but it won't go anywhere.

Would you, as an adult, accept state control over your actions? Hardly. Hence, it is illegal for a state university in Virginia to assume in loco parentis authority. All violations of student conduct codes are handled by review boards and through due process. And such violations are traditionally where in loco parentis authority is exercised on college campuses.

If it would've saved one life, it would've been worth it.

I still don't see the parallels between a college campus and a town. 2 different things, and it's much more feasible to shut down a campus than an entire town, even if the campus is large.

You haven't said which school you're affiliated with, but does its campus contain a hundred buildings and 35,000 people? There's no real border between the campus and the town of Blacksburg. It's not like there's a chain link fence that separates the two. Large land-grant schools are more like towns, even cities. A small, urban school could be locked down much more easily.

 

[yg17]

In Virginia, you cannot sue the state or a state agency. Period. Black-letter law. The parents can try to sue, but it won't go anywhere.

Would you, as an adult, accept state control over your actions? Hardly. Hence, it is illegal for a state university in Virginia to assume in loco parentis authority. All violations of student conduct codes are handled by review boards and through due process. And such violations are traditionally where in loco parentis authority is exercised on college campuses.



You haven't said which school you're affiliated with, but does its campus contain a hundred buildings and 35,000 people? There's no real border between the campus and the town of Blacksburg. It's not like there's a chain link fence that separates the two. Large land-grant schools are more like towns, even cities. A small, urban school could be locked down much more easily.

University of Missouri-Rolla. No, it's not as large as VT, but there's no real border here either.

 

[63dot]

two basic questions

1) why didn't they close the campus?

2) why are there people on this forum that think closing the campus was a bad idea?

it's only the worst single shooter massacre in the history of the good ole usa..oh, i guess that does not matter since we are a very young country not much more than a couple of centuries old...sorry for my ignorance

maybe 33 people dead is nothing...nada...just a glitch

 

[TequilaBoobs]

Interesting interview of one of the kids who was shot...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=67f_1176750363

thanks, good link. cant believe he tried to come back and finish them off, but they barricaded the door!

 

[clevin]

msnbc now reports death toll at 33

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Watching this press conference, its evident that someone really screwed up. A ton of excuses, and they're dodging good questions

"Well, we had to decide whether or not to cancel classes...."
Huh? I think after the first shots were fired, it's pretty damn obvious you need to cancel classes. Had they cancelled classes and kept people off campus, 30 more people may be out right now having fun with their friends and family, not in bodybags.

"We would have had to send out 35,000 emails!"
Another BS excuse. This isn't the early 90s where you have to type in addresses manually. I work at a college's IT department, and they can send a message to all 12,000 Exchange mailboxes in seconds...literally. Who knows how many lives that also could've saved.

like some else said there is a lot more to it than just canceling class. After the first shooting a safe figuring was it was over.
2nd off even sending out those emails would not of kept that many people off campus. Most people really do not check there email that off and those mass school emails people get those every day telling them stuff so they kind of filter out. I sometime will have 5+ of those marked as unread in my inbox just because I get them all the time.
So still would of had a lot of students on campus.
the 35,000 emails is a pretty heavy strain on there system because you have to remember all 35,000 puts a pretty big strain on the servers. Hell my school with 30k breaks up all the announcements into small chunks and it take up to an hour or more before everyone gets one of hte announcements because it broken up to reduce strain on the servers.

Plus canceling class in college pretty hard to do and colleges try to avoid doing it. They can not get waivers for canceled class days and they have to some how make them up. It not like in k-12 where canceling class is a fairly easy thing to do. In college they do worry about accreditation. Loose that and the school is toast.

hindsight 20/20. It was a safe assumption after the first shooting it was pretty much over and contain there so school could go on as normal.

But oh boy you behind a keyboard are so smart and they should of done that. Hell if I was the person making the call I more than likely would NOT of cancel class after the first shooting because I would never of though it would of kept going on.


It is a very very sad event that happened. I do see law suits coming about because people are sue happy but I do not see the school having to pay really more than their legal fees because they did everything by the book and ti was just a very sad event that happened.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

1) why didn't they close the campus?

2) why are there people on this forum that think closing the campus was a bad idea?

it's only the worst single shooter massacre in the history of the good ole usa..oh, i guess that does not matter since we are a very young country not much more than a couple of centuries old...sorry for my ignorance

maybe 33 people dead is nothing...nada...just a glitch

for question 1.
University are not exactly schools. They are more like a small to medium size city and have a police force of their own. For protection and what not it runs like a city. it has to because there is no real way to lock down a college campus. They are pretty damn large in land area.

2. People like me are defending the school not being shut down because that it not just a small school but a living breathing city of it own. Come on next time a shooting goes on in your home town have entire city shut down until the killers are caught. NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

College trying to keep running like business when things go bad they try to keep things moving along and keep things as normal as possible just like a city tries to do when a bad event happens.

If you noticed the school responding to the incident and yes they cancel classes though tomorrow and my gut telling me it more so they can get the police in there investigating it and get damage control going on. But if you noticed they are going back to business as normal on wed. They have to.

it going to a rough on the students because they have finals coming up in a week or 2 and they still have to go on.

 

[obeygiant]

Witness survives by pretending to be dead

BLACKSBURG, Virginia (CNN) -- A gunman who killed at least 30 people at one of two shootings on the campus of Virginia Tech Monday was dressed "almost like a Boy Scout," said a woman who survived by pretending to lie dead on a classroom floor.

cnn

This gets stranger by the minute. This story is going to saturate the media weeks.

 

[FF_productions]

This is devastating, very hard to watch on CNN.


I don't have much to say.

 

[princealfie]

The saddest thing is that this incident was preventable, not some random act of fate.

 

[thedude110]

I just don't understand it at all and the panic just makes me tear.

This is a thing that makes me spiral -- just imagining the absolute fear in that moment.

This is the rare thing that demands that we feel it.

 

[EricNau]

Witness survives by pretending to be dead
cnn

This gets stranger by the minute. This story is going to saturate the media weeks.

Makes perfect sense to me. People don't usually shoot people who are already dead.

 

[63dot]

for question 1.
University are not exactly schools. They are more like a small to medium size city and have a police force of their own. For protection and what not it runs like a city. it has to because there is no real way to lock down a college campus. They are pretty damn large in land area.

2. People like me are defending the school not being shut down because that it not just a small school but a living breathing city of it own. Come on next time a shooting goes on in your home town have entire city shut down until the killers are caught. NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

College trying to keep running like business when things go bad they try to keep things moving along and keep things as normal as possible just like a city tries to do when a bad event happens.

If you noticed the school responding to the incident and yes they cancel classes though tomorrow and my gut telling me it more so they can get the police in there investigating it and get damage control going on. But if you noticed they are going back to business as normal on wed. They have to.

it going to a rough on the students because they have finals coming up in a week or 2 and they still have to go on.

nothing remotely like what you are saying has been said on cnn or fox from what i have seen

so the school is like a city that can't be alerted or shut down?...what?...too impractical?...killer on the loose in the school, but don't tell many people outside of some lockdowns and emails?

what about the people arriving on campus? is it just too little a detail in such a big school?

the campus' official reaction after the first wave of shootings, now that's the main outrage right now, live on tv, as you can see

anyway, when this cools down, analysts may determine that alerting such a big school was impractical, but it's not what is even being hinted at right now

i will also try and watch msnbc and the big 3 networks and see what transpires

if what you say, which seems outrageous, is correct and the school was correct in its reaction and your defense is sound, i will be the first to apologize to you

...and also suggest you go to cnn or fox and replace those reporters who keep on asking why the school did not do more to alert people after the first shootings

 

[EricNau]

It's pretty easy to sit behind a keyboard and go "well of course you should cancel class!" But it's a lot harder when your on campus and surrounded by mass confusion. You don't know where the gunman is, how many there are, or if it's an isolated case between 2 students, or a full blown assault from a group of people. And the media ringing your phones off the hook doesn't help matters easy.

And then immediately after event your forced to step up to a podium and make a statement and it's suppose to be concise and have all the answers?

I'm not saying mistakes weren't made, I'm just saying put yourself in the schools shoes for a second and realize not every decision is so obvious when your under the hammer.

No, canceling class was absolutely the right and obvious thing to do. Anytime there is a school shooting with the gunman still at large the only correct thing to do is cancel all classes immediately, place the school under strict lock-down, and require students to shelter in place until the gunman has been located and/or all buildings have been secured.

No exceptions.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

No, canceling class was absolutely the right and obvious thing to do. Anytime there is a school shooting with the gunman still at large the only correct thing to do is cancel all classes immediately, place the school under strict lock-down, and require students to shelter in place until the gunman has been located and/or all buildings have been secured.

No exceptions.

Umm read the story. The first shooting the POLICE said it was an isolated incident and the killer probable fed. Based on that advice they choose not to cancel class which at the time was what they though was best.

Just the media likes to blame some one and they are targeting the school. They refuse to accept the fact that it was not something that could be planned on.

Really like people have pointed out it easy to look back and blame some one. if you want to blame any one blame the Police they are the ones that said the first one was isolated. The odds of the killing spree happening where slime to none because almost all other murders are general isolated events. So they saw no reason at the time to cancel class because they figure the killer was gone.

But people want to blame some one and refuse to acted the fact that it was not something that was truly preventable based the infomation they had. They did what they though was the best action and I willing to be good money that all the other major university with 25k or more students would of done the exact same then VA tech did.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

nothing remotely like what you are saying has been said on cnn or fox from what i have seen

so the school is like a city that can't be alerted or shut down?...what?...too impractical?...killer on the loose in the school, but don't tell many people outside of some lockdowns and emails?

what about the people arriving on campus? is it just too little a detail in such a big school?

the campus' official reaction after the first wave of shootings, now that's the main outrage right now, live on tv, as you can see

anyway, when this cools down, analysts may determine that alerting such a big school was impractical, but it's not what is even being hinted at right now

i will also try and watch msnbc and the big 3 networks and see what transpires

if what you say, which seems outrageous, is correct and the school was correct in its reaction and your defense is sound, i will be the first to apologize to you

...and also suggest you go to cnn or fox and replace those reporters who keep on asking why the school did not do more to alert people after the first shootings

you know as well as I do that the media will never report that the school didn't do anything wrong. The media gave up a long time ago really giving a damn about the truth. No they report what will sell and lets face it making the school look like a bad guy sells and blaming the school. State that school did nothing wrong and the media will have a field day trying to cause problems.

The simple truth of the matter read some more information on it. It was reported that the police stated that the first 2 shooting where believed to of been isolated and the killer fled, based on that infomation no major university in their right mind would of shut down.

Hell 2 years ago some one was arrested from the door I lived in for a murder they committed over spring break in another city. Guess how the student body even found any of this out. It managed to make it in the school paper the next day but no major media pick it up. Hell the school didn't alert us to a murder being in the dorm I was living in.

Also got to think about the mass panic the alerting would of cause. that is why my university did not alert the student body. It just makes panic and they would rather avoid dealing with panic.

 

[EricNau]

Umm read the story. The first shooting the POLICE said it was an isolated incident and the killer probable fed. Based on that advice they choose not to cancel class which at the time was what they though was best.

Just the media likes to blame some one and they are targeting the school. They refuse to accept the fact that it was not something that could be planned on.

Really like people have pointed out it easy to look back and blame some one. if you want to blame any one blame the Police they are the ones that said the first one was isolated. The odds of the killing spree happening where slime to none because almost all other murders are general isolated events. So they saw no reason at the time to cancel class because they figure the killer was gone.

But people want to blame some one and refuse to acted the fact that it was not something that was truly preventable based the infomation they had. They did what they though was the best action and I willing to be good money that all the other major university with 25k or more students would of done the exact same then VA tech did.

That statement of mine was in no way influenced by the media or anyone else. It was my first thought when I heard the shootings were separated by 2 hours - "Why wasn't the school in lock-down?"

I blame the police for mistakingly misleading the school and I blame the school for not using common sense. With a school shooting (especially one that took place in a dorm), you can anticipate that the gunman is a student, and if they fled and are still at large you don't know where they're going (but you can bet they'll be back). ...The decision to place the school under lock-down should have been made before the police arrived.

 

[robPOD]

This is so f**kin Sick. 32 People Dead, Holy Sh*t.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

That statement of mine was in no way influenced by the media or anyone else. It was my first thought when I heard the shootings were separated by 2 hours - "Why wasn't the school in lock-down?"

I blame the police for mistakenly misleading the school and I blame the school for not using common sense. With a school shooting (especially one that took place in a dorm), you can anticipate that the gunman is a student, and if they fled and are still at large you don't know where they're going (but you can bet they'll be back). ...The decision to place the school under lock-down should have been made before the police arrived.

if you think the media gives a damn about the truth then my friend have a lot to learn. You have to remember the media only cares about one thing and that is making money. And guess what things like this sell very well and gets everyone attention.

I with the school and I think for the time they made the right move. Now if it was a school of less than 10k people then yes shutting it down would of been a valid chose. But when you are the size of a small city you have to think like that and how often murders go from one killing to a killing spree..... ALMOST NEVER. How the hell was the school going to guess that.

Remember hindsight 20/20 and it is so easy for you to judge. You where not the one having to make the call. They work with the infomation they had and based on what they knew at the time shutting down the school would of been the incorrect choice to make. Why shut it down and not continue business as normal when you believe that while the murders where unfortancted the killer is gone and not going t be coming back. I would not of shut the school down at that time in the morning. I would of been with the police.

Also if you read the school did lock down the dorm it happen in. For the safety of the students there. They saw no reason to shut down the campus..

 

[princealfie]

I think that the media enjoys this because they can sell more of the story which incurs wrath and polarization. thats the name of their game.

 

[EricNau]

if you think the media gives a damn about the truth then my friend have a lot to learn. You have to remember the media only cares about one thing and that is making money. And guess what things like this sell very well and gets everyone attention.

Who's post were you reading? When did I give the impression that I trust the media? I gave the exact opposite impression, in fact.

I with the school and I think for the time they made the right move. Now if it was a school of less than 10k people then yes shutting it down would of been a valid chose. But when you are the size of a small city you have to think like that and how often murders go from one killing to a killing spree..... ALMOST NEVER. How the hell was the school going to guess that.

Likewise, in a real city would you just hope the gunman was gone? Would you just assume he left the city limits? Would you fail to do a proper search? Would you fail to alert the public? ...I should certainly hope not.

Remember hindsight 20/20 and it is so easy for you to judge. You where not the one having to make the call. They work with the infomation they had and based on what they knew at the time shutting down the school would of been the incorrect choice to make. Why shut it down and not continue business as normal when you believe that while the murders where unfortancted the killer is gone and not going t be coming back. I would not of shut the school down at that time in the morning. I would of been with the police.

You should always err on the side of caution when lives are at risk. No one would have blamed the administrators if they cancelled classes to ensure the safety of students. Instead, 30 more students are dead and the school was still shut down.

Also if you read the school did lock down the dorm it happen in. For the safety of the students there. They saw no reason to shut down the campus..

That makes sense. Lock down the dorm where you know the gunman isn't.

 

[Cougarcat]

Hong Kong news (from Yahoo) is reporting that the killer was an exchange student from Shanghai...

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Likewise, in a real city would you just hope the gunman was gone? Would you just assume he left the city limits? Would you fail to do a proper search? Would you fail to alert the public? ...I should certainly hope not.
:

LOL you think city alert the public after a shooting..... Now that is funny. I know full out and well that cities do not alert the public about it until guess what the next day or the evening news. Most city do not tell them that they are looking for a murder. I willing to bet that what ever city VA Tech was in was not alert about the first 2 murders.

Just though I tell you cities don't state that infomation. It gets put out in the even news/next day paper.
For a college they can assume that they left pretty safely because that is based on land area and lets face it college pretty small in size in raw land area. Plus is it not a good place to hide if you do not want to be found by the cops. Way to many people about.

 

[EricNau]

LOL you think city alert the public after a shooting..... Now that is funny. I know full out and well that cities do not alert the public about it until guess what the next day or the evening news. Most city do not tell them that they are looking for a murder. I willing to bet that what ever city VA Tech was in was not alert about the first 2 murders.

Just though I tell you cities don't state that infomation. It gets put out in the even news/next day paper.
For a college they can assume that they left pretty safely because that is based on land area and lets face it college pretty small in size in raw land area. Plus is it not a good place to hide if you do not want to be found by the cops. Way to many people about.

A very small city of 25,000 within a very small area with the gunman still at large? The surrounding public would be notified for their own safety. ...It's been done in my city (which is many times larger than VA tech).

Besides, it is completely inaccurate to compare a university to a city: the two are very different.