Killing spree at VA Tech...

[840quadra]

It seems to me like you're looking back at the events and drawing a line between them that was not obvious initially......

No.

I am drawing the same conclusion that I did when someone at the U of M (Minnesota) was assaulted by an unknown subject on campus.

I hear now (after my original post) that the school did send out a mass email, and notification to everyone they could. This satisfies my concern / gripe. It is just too bad they didn't send it sooner. However, with recently active bomb threats, I would have expected the school to act sooner than it did initially!

 

[Transic]

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[TequilaBoobs]

No.

I am drawing the same conclusion that I did when someone at the U of M (Minnesota) was assaulted by an unknown subject on campus.

I hear now (after my original post) that the school did send out a mass email, and notification to everyone they could. This satisfies my concern / gripe. It is just too bad they didn't send it sooner. However, with recently active bomb threats, I would have expected the school to act sooner than it did initially!

email is not sufficient, as others have said some people dont check it periodically. maybe if they had sent a text message stating that 2 were killed and others injured, with the killer at large, classes will be canceled until further notice, blah blah blah. that would have worked, fo sho.

 

[faintember]

AOL links to two plays he wrote about a year ago, as a college Junior.

http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/

Most people have commented on the violence in them, but as a creative writing major, I've read things far more violent and disturbing. They really don't stand out in that regard for me. What I find frightening is the level of his work; early high-school or late middle school at best. They are no where near the level of work that you should be writing in a college playwriting class. It's like he was emotionally stuck in a time of past hurt, neglect, or some kind of traumatic event. After reading those two plays, I have to wonder how well he was doing in college...

Thanks for posting the link, and I do agree with you in that the content of the plays is pretty mild, where as the level of writing evident makes me wonder how he even was allowed into college.

Maybe there are other plays by him that are worse, but I fail to see how those two plays are to serve as "warning signs". Seems to me like the media is blowing these plays out of proportion for added sensationalism.

 

[CorvusCamenarum]

email is not sufficient, as others have said some people dont check it periodically. maybe if they had sent a text message stating that 2 were killed and others injured, with the killer at large, classes will be canceled until further notice, blah blah blah. that would have worked, fo sho.

Probably only up until classes let out. Obviously I can't speak for how things go at VT, but many of my own professors have a cell-phone-off policy during class. The last time my university shut things down (for a freak blizzard of all things) they just had University Police and staff members go around telling everyone they saw what was up. Worked fairly well for a campus of about 20k students.

 

[ToddW]

there was a student when i went to arkansas who shot a professor during school. it was pretty surreal, i was walking to class which was located on the floor in that same bldg. i was pretty freaked out by the whole thing, which doesn't compare to how the students probably feel at VT. i really brings that safety feeling that you have being on campus away. VT is in my prayers.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Thanks for posting the link, and I do agree with you in that the content of the plays is pretty mild, where as the level of writing evident makes me wonder how he even was allowed into college.

Maybe there are other plays by him that are worse, but I fail to see how those two plays are to serve as "warning signs". Seems to me like the media is blowing these plays out of proportion for added sensationalism.

over a year ago and they think that is a warning sign for now... wow Thank you media again for not giving a damn about the truth and proving it as well.

Also I find it strange how other parts of his writing is not being shown on the media. I bet I can guess the reason, because they do not contain anything that could be considered warning signs. No one will think of warning signs with 2 pieces of work out of he 10+ he writes per semester.

 

[840quadra]

I think the school made the right call after the first shooting and not shutting down because all signed pointed to a domisteic issue so it was a very safe assumtion to shut down the dorm and keep the campus open.

I understand and agree with some of what you said (in the rest of the post), however there also was a few points that should have been factored in.

A lot was unknown at the time (granted) , but what they did know was that the killer was still loose on a large school campus, and they also knew of recent bomb threats for parts of the campus. What they didn't know, was who the actual target was, or if there was anyone else on his / her list.

email is not sufficient, as others have said some people dont check it periodically. maybe if they had sent a text message stating that 2 were killed and others injured, with the killer at large, classes will be canceled until further notice, blah blah blah. that would have worked, fo sho.

Watch or read the online reports, there was more than just Email being sent, calls were also made.

 

[TequilaBoobs]

there were signs. like his roommate who attempted to chat with Cho several times only to be answered with a word, as a way to end conversations. the same roommate walked in on Cho staring at his desk with nothing on it, but he just chalked it up to being weird. i believe RA's should be inclined to get to know their students, just to make sure there are no red flags. a loner who doesnt talk to his roommate, who doesnt adorn his room with posters, pictures or personal effects, would signal a red flag in my book.

 

[EricNau]

How does that translate?

BTK (wiki) - was the most recent serial killer localized in the midwest (Wichita, Kansas) and was not caught until recent - should a lock down of the town/city* ensued after the first, second, third, etc. incident according to yours and the logic of others?

When does a killer become a serial killer is it after 2 hours, 2 years,or 20 years?

It is sad to put it in such terms to say that all killers are not serial killers /mass murders. Logic would state that the original incident was a crime of passion or the such but would no longer pose future loss.

*Pop 2.6mill

No. First of all, there is no way to compare a university with a city. The two are very different. Secondly, if you must compare the two as if they were the same, you can't compare a "city" of 25,000 to a city of over 2 million.

I think the school made the right call after the first shooting and not shutting down because all signed pointed to a domisteic issue so it was a very safe assumtion to shut down the dorm and keep the campus open.

At that point the gunman was still at large - he could have been anywhere. They didn't know if he had fled or was walking straight over to the next building. Nothing should ever be assumed in a case like this.

Their first thought should have been, "We need to place the entire school on lock-down until we locate the gunman or every building has been secured." ...This should have happened before the city police even arrived to voice their opinion.

 

[joepunk]

...and some schools have a cheap software program that allows them to simultaneously send out text messages to cell phones - that could handle 26k students without jamming the phone system. after last august, after the recent bomb threats, you'd think vt would invest in some precautions.

at least now most schools will have this software. just a shame people died when technology permits instant notification to communities.

That would be useless for those w/their phones turned off like mine was most of the time I was in my Uni. campus.

I would think that a simple loudspeaker system would be much more efficient in the case of a large campus and I always wondered why the few Colleges/Universities that I went to never seemed to have such in place around the campus and in classrooms.

 

[Transic]

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[cr2sh]

Their first thought should have been, "We need to place the entire school on lock-down until we locate the gunman or every building has been secured." ...This should have happened before the city police even arrived to voice their opinion.

In Blacksburg, VA between 2001 and 2005, there have been a grand total (total, not average) of 4 murders. That's less than 1 per year. While I understand your desire for them to have acted more pro-actively, I'm not sure that in this community the thoughts that are running through your mind (after the fact) occurred to them at 7:30am on a sleepy Monday morning.

It just seems like you think that all of these things are obvious and that someone should have done all of these things, and someone is to blame for not seeing them. I don't think that's fair. I think you have to respect the decisions of the person who lives in that town, who works as a cop on that campus, who was standing in that dorm at 7:30 am and calling the shots... and not stand back in hindsight and say, "Oh you should have done more."

 

[Rodimus Prime]

At that point the gunman was still at large - he could have been anywhere. They didn't know if he had fled or was walking straight over to the next building. Nothing should ever be assumed in a case like this.

Their first thought should have been, "We need to place the entire school on lock-down until we locate the gunman or every building has been secured." ...This should have happened before the city police even arrived to voice their opinion.

what funny is the first reaction the school did is what any other school would do. My Jr. high I went to had a teacher claim in the morning that some one shot a gun at her on the school campus. No gun man was found and guess what the school went on as normal minus that one teacher. The Jr has less than 1000 students and they did not react to the gun man that was never found.
Now upon more investigation the teacher was fired over this and she was charge with a crime a few days later. But if you not a small school did not change business as normal.

The ONLY reason this is being a made a big deal is because of the killing 2 hours later. If the first murders happen and nothing after it, guess it would of made a 30 sec clip on the news stating what happen and that the college stayed open. And no one would of said a thing. If the university had shut down after the first one they would of gotten a lot of flack for over reacting to a DOMISISIC problem.

Also I might like to point out that you still would of had 9k plus people on campus and all just as easy to get 2 in the dorms. Just go on a shooting spree in there. Then people would of be complain why didn't they have everyone living on campus get off of it for a day killer at large and believe to be in the city some where....

Point being there is why you have to University is a small city and has to run as both a place of education and a city at the same time. You have people living there 9 months out of the year. A lot of people and it not like you can just tell them all to leave for a what looks like a domestic murder. Try doing that to a town of 5k when a murder happens. You are not going to shut down a town of that size for tell everyone to leave because you do not know where the killer is.

Based on a lot of your post it seems like you are not in college yet or never been to college which leads me to believe you really do not understand what a lot of us are saying who attend major university and we can see why they are small cities in themselves.

You trashed the Campus police which is a fully fledged police force and have the power as such. Local PD do not and will not come on to a college campus unless they are requested 2. Any 911 calls that happen on a college campus will get direct to the campus police to address. The local PD will not go on to the campus it not their place. All colleges are like that. They do not want the local PD patrolling the college and they rather have their own police force who job is only to protect the campus handle it and have a much better ratio to studentolice ratio than a city has with Residentolice. Hell in most college towns the campus police force is LARGER than the local PDs. Reason is the college population is larger than the local PD's. Sweetwater OK is a town of 18k during the summer and during the school year that number is oh about 40K. Guess which police force is larger. I would not be surprised at all if the University police force as the same size if not larger than Blacksburg's.

 

[mustard]

No. First of all, there is no way to compare a university with a city. The two are very different. Secondly, if you must compare the two as if they were the same, you can't compare a "city" of 25,000 to a city of over 2 million.

They are both bodies that function as a "city", both have a subset of residents, geographically area, a governing body, healthcare provisions, law enforcement, employees, criminals, good samaritans... the list goes on.

In reference to BTK the size is vastly different, I understand that (I pointed it out for those that didn't) the emphasis is on the time frame. If every single homicide was treated as people here are saying, nothing would happen in the United States because it would all be locked down.

There is a homicide that takes place every hour in the US

Deaths from Homicide: 16,889 annual deaths in 1999 (NVSR Sep 2001)
Death rate extrapolations for USA for Homicide: 16,889 per year, 1,407 per month, 324 per week, 46 per day, 1 per hour, 0 per minute, 0 per second.

 

[THX1139]

AOL links to two plays he wrote about a year ago, as a college Junior.

http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/

Most people have commented on the violence in them, but as a creative writing major, I've read things far more violent and disturbing. They really don't stand out in that regard for me. What I find frightening is the level of his work; early high-school or late middle school at best.

You pretty much missed the point didn't you? You must have been so fixated on his poor writing style that you couldn't see his anger within the writings. True, there are probably far more violent writings done by "normal" people, but when I read his plays, I couldn't help but feel a bit creeped out as he channeled his inner hatred through the characters. Maybe I'm reading in hindsight, but I probably would have felt some kind of weirdness even if I read those before he went on his rampage. Read any writings from known famous killers and they all have the same tone as what I read in those plays. Reading them for "style" is a waste of time when you should be looking at the tone. No wonder his professor felt alarmed after reading them! Check out the writings of the Columbine shooters, Berkowitz, Manson, Kazinski, or any famous killer and you'll know what I'm talking about. Often they channel their anger through fictional characters or rant against society until it builds to where they can manifest (their anger) through action. A ticking bomb waiting for the exact trigger to set it off.

 

[cr2sh]

You must have been so fixated on his poor writing style that you couldn't see his anger within the writings.

The anger behind the writing is obvious.. I'm not sure how anyone could have missed that. The scariest part about it was how vacant and shallow his characters were. There was no development to them, no substance, just flimsy names hiding the rage. It was written badly, but it seems it may have written badly because he was so filled with violence that he couldn't hide his desire to kill.

His characters wanted to kill so badly that they would just blurt out obscenities and death threats.. and he'd try to put them in some context but it was just absolutely bizarre... he enjoyed writing these stories and depicting the urge to kill. He had these violent fantasies in his head, the stories were constructed around them to try to hide his desire.

 

[obeygiant]

Some background on Cho's family in South Korea from the Detroit News.

The family lived in a rented, basement apartment -- usually the cheapest unit in a multi-apartment building, the newspaper reported quoting building owner Lim Bong-ae, 67. Police identified the shooter's father as Cho Seong-tae, 61.
"I didn't know what (Cho's father) did for a living. But they lived a poor life," Lim told the newspaper. "While emigrating, (Cho's father) said they were going to America because it is difficult to live here and that it's better to live in a place where he is unknown."
The small apartment where the family lived is now vacant and its front door was left unlocked Wednesday. Mildew stains mark the pale blue walls of the three-room residence, which is no larger than 430 square feet.
At the Shinchang Elementary School that Cho attended for first grade and half of second grade, there were no records of the former student besides that he left school Aug. 19, 1992, officials said. Cho's former homeroom teacher was no longer working at the school and other teachers did not remember Cho.
Meanwhile, South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun held a special meeting with aides Wednesday to discuss the shooting, as the public expressed shame over a South Korean citizen being identified as the gunman.
"I and our people cannot contain our feelings of huge shock and grief," said Roh during a news conference. "I pray for the souls of those killed and offer words of comfort from my heart for those injured, the bereaved families and the U.S. people."

 

[Daveway]

NBC News received a package from Cho that was mailed between the shootings.
They have made copies of everything and will be airing them during their 6:30pm time slot.

This story keeps swelling.

 

[mcarnes]

NBC News received a package from Cho that was mailed between the shootings.
They have made copies of everything and will be airing them during their 6:30pm time slot.

This story keeps swelling.

Heck, since no once else has posted it, here it is.

The guy was a true loser.

 

[obeygiant]

Youtube is flooded. They've probably melted a server by know. That video he shot of himself is unreal.

 

[BiikeMike]

Heck, since no once else has posted it, here it is.

The guy was a true loser.

holy ****!


On another note:

(PS, hotlink the image all you want, I'm hosting it on my server)

 

[the vj]

Well, I am not suprise of the guy after watching the video. I even went over that before but teh moderators decided to delet my post (talking about freedom of spech) or do I have to get a gun to make a point as well? because is easyer to do that today in the US than getting respect when you speak.

Did I make a point.

I am suprise no one did something regarding that guy, people led him on his own world. If you ask me I do not blame him even we all are responsable for our mental health but we are a comunity and we are responsible for each other.

I blame the people around him, I blame the people who turn his back on him, because you do not get to that state from one day to the other.

Again... remember the corpose of the old man who spent a year on his chair watching TV and no one did anything.

Everybody felt sad for him but as you can see, many people are living the same isolation alive.

Who have you been rejecting is what you should be thinking about?

 

[mcarnes]

Well, I am not suprise of the guy after watching the video. I even went over that before but teh moderators decided to delet my post (talking about freedom of spech) or do I have to get a gun to make a point as well? because is easyer to do that today in the US than getting respect when you speak.

Did I make a point.

I am suprise no one did something regarding that guy, people led him on his own world. If you ask me I do not blame him even we all are responsable for our mental health but we are a comunity and we are responsible for each other.

I blame the people around him, I blame the people who turn his back on him, because you do not get to that state from one day to the other.

Again... remember the corpose of the old man who spent a year on his chair watching TV and no one did anything.

Everybody felt sad for him but as you can see, many people are living the same isolation alive.

Who have you been rejecting is what you should be thinking about?

I like you vj. You my friend.

 

[BiikeMike]

Well, I am not suprise of the guy after watching the video. I even went over that before but teh moderators decided to delet my post (talking about freedom of spech) or do I have to get a gun to make a point as well? because is easyer to do that today in the US than getting respect when you speak.

Did I make a point.

I am suprise no one did something regarding that guy, people led him on his own world. If you ask me I do not blame him even we all are responsable for our mental health but we are a comunity and we are responsible for each other.

I blame the people around him, I blame the people who turn his back on him, because you do not get to that state from one day to the other.

Again... remember the corpose of the old man who spent a year on his chair watching TV and no one did anything.

Everybody felt sad for him but as you can see, many people are living the same isolation alive.

Who have you been rejecting is what you should be thinking about?

I REALLY hope you are joking. If not, you need some serious help.

You cannot place blame on people around someone for that person's actions, everyone is responsible for their own actions. If you don't believe that, you may be the dumbest person on the planet.