Kindle Software for Mac Under Development

[MikhailT]

based on what's currently announced ... I wont get a Nook. It's great that it's android based, but the Nook and the Alex are basically just a Kindle, with the keyboard being replaced by an LCD touch screen (for virtual keyboard, android apps, etc.).

The MUCH more interesting device, IMO, is the Entourage eDGe. Two panels (e-ink with stylus support, LCD touch screen), 10" panels, 360 degree hinge (ie. can fold the panels to be back to back), full Android app support on a 1024x600 screen, etc. Sort of like a Microsoft Courier, but with a real OS. Oh, and support for various e-book formats (possibly also for the nook e-books). Support for virtual and bluetooth keyboards (maybe for usb keyboards).

An Apple Mac OS X (not iPhone) based 10" tablet might be more enticing, with Amazon, Nook, and open E-book formats. Especially if it has the pixelqi hybrid display, and multi-touch, SDHC card slot, SSD options, LONG battery life, support for virtual, usb, and bluetooth keyboards/mice, and display port.

But, if Apple doesn't release an AMAZING 10" tablet in January, I'll definitely be buying the Entourage eDGe in February.

The dualbook one is just giving me a conflicting feeling. It looks like it's a good way to go for getting an e-reader/tablet/netbook hybrid but at same time, how comfortable is it to hold it like that? Yes you can fold it, to read books and stuff but is it really comfortable with that thickness?

The future has to be a hybrid screen, the pixelqi. Apple has a chance to totally not only overtake the tablet market but also ebook readers and netbooks if they include a pixelqi screen that's high quality with multitouch and OS X. It will be worth 800-900$. I would buy one right away. I am sure Apple will take advantage of the same battery that's in MBP.

 

[kzin]

The future has to be a hybrid screen, the pixelqi.

I agree. Even color e-ink wont cut it -- e-ink is too slow for general tasks. Maybe not the pixelqi display exactly, but a hybrid display like it ... or a MUCH faster e-ink type concept.

And, the time is ripe for Apple to take that market segment (UMPC tablets, mid-range mobile devices, and e-readers) by storm.


Oh, and, on the formfactor of the eDGe -- one thing I like about it is, if the e-ink side can be used with fingers (not yet clear if it can be), then you might be able to turn it to landscape mode, put a virtual keyboard on the e-ink panel, and use it like a netbook.

 

[MikhailT]

I agree. Even color e-ink wont cut it -- e-ink is too slow for general tasks. Maybe not the pixelqi display exactly, but a hybrid display like it ... or a MUCH faster e-ink type concept.

And, the time is ripe for Apple to take that market segment (UMPC tablets, mid-range mobile devices, and e-readers) by storm.


Oh, and, on the formfactor of the eDGe -- one thing I like about it is, if the e-ink side can be used with fingers (not yet clear if it can be), then you might be able to turn it to landscape mode, put a virtual keyboard on the e-ink panel, and use it like a netbook.

The e-ink technology will improve over time and the animation can be possible in real time and not only that, the e-ink allows the possibility of a flexible screen. There's already a demo running of that.

This is the early alpha prototype of a flexible e-ink display back in 2000
This is the early alpha prototype of color e-ink back in 2005

The technology is there. Just the issue of commercialization, which is still years away.

 

[kzin]

OLEDs also allow for flexible displays. Demos of that out there, as well. And they allow for bright color displays. And all of that tech is available now

 

[MikhailT]

OLEDs also allow for flexible displays. Demos of that out there, as well. And they allow for bright color displays. And all of that tech is available now

Considering that OLED won't require a backlight and consume no power when a certain color is on (black since it can be turned off), has .001-.05ms refresh compared to 2+ ms for LCD screens, OLED would make for excellent readers but like everything else there are pros and cons.

OLED has a very limited lifetime and it varies for each color, (let's say 2.5 years for full time use). It's far too early in development to be useful for anything. It is at least a decade away where color e-ink is possible within half a decade or early.

 

[kzin]

OLED ... is at least a decade away where color e-ink is possible within half a decade or early.

OLED is being deployed in devices _now_. There are several cell phones with OLED screens, last I checked.

 

[Stella]

aaahhhh.... once Tablet Mac comes out, by by Kindle. RIP

Well, probably not. If a person wants an ebook reader then apple tablet would probably be overkill, not to mention quite a bit more expensive!

 

[MikhailT]

OLED is being deployed in devices _now_. There are several cell phones with OLED screens, last I checked.

Well my information may be out of date but as far as I know, those OLED screens are tiny and can't scale up more than 6" or so yet and they are in low volume products. Unless i'm wrong, can you provide a product that's mass produced and bigger than 6"?

You may be right, they may have some breakthroughs that brings the OLED technology to mass market within the new few years.

Here's a site with list of OLED progress info. I see the lifetime spec for full color OLED has progressed to 30K hours. Last time I checked, it was like 8-10K which is short.

 

[kanon14]

This i sgreat news! As someone living outside US, Kindle (International version) is the only viable option for me because Amazon is the only company offering an international ebook store and although the library is not as large as the US one, the number of books available is growing. Now I do my reading on Kindle most of the time and I use the iPhone Kindle app when I'm using the bathroom I don't see myself using the Kindle app on Mac a lot, but it would come in handy if I want to quote some passages off the ebook.

 

[guet]

The color isn't Kindle's fault. It's just that we haven't reach to that point yet where we can get color e-ink. It is still years away from commercialization.

I suspect eink will be superseded by another tech like OLED before it reaches widespread adoption - refresh rate and colour are two glaring problems with it right now, which render it useless for reading anything other than simple pages of black and white text. Also, the fact it is reflective means colours will always look a bit washed out on it. The lack of colour *is* the kindle's fault because they chose eink, and I think most people are sufficiently sensitised to active screens that they can see the advantages outweigh the disadvantages at this moment in time.

As for HTML "open" standard, you do realize it already exist and it's called ePUB? It's XML based instead of HTML. It can work on any device that supports ePUB including web browsers.

ePUB is fine as far as it goes, but it is hardly the equal of HTML. It is limited in many ways, incorporates only a subset of HTML and CSS, limits animation and scripting, has a few legacy decisions which make it a pain to parse/create, and severely limits what you can do with the books - it seems to be predicated on the assumption that all books want to look like badly typeset novels; predominantly text with very little styling or other content. It also leaves pagination up to the reading device, which hits performance, removes any idea of page numbers as a useful reference, and leads to all sorts of ugly kludges as soon as you're not dealing with simple paragraphs of text. Simple pre-paginated HTML would be a much better bet, and has the bonus of being compatible with many readers out there already, and much content already produced.

Either is infinitely better than some kindle only format - can't believe people are buying into that. I just hope Apple see the writing on the wall here and move to something DRM free (and hopefully something better than ePUB).

 

[kzin]

Well my information may be out of date but as far as I know, those OLED screens are tiny and can't scale up more than 6" or so yet and they are in low volume products. Unless i'm wrong, can you provide a product that's mass produced and bigger than 6"?

you're right that the devices I'm thinking of are under 6" screen size (they're cell phones). But I don't know that they're any less volume in distribution than e-readers. Nor am I aware that they're unable to scale up past 6" in screen size -- my impression wasn't that they hadn't made that leap out of technology limitations ... I've seen demos of devices larger than 6", so I just figured no one had taken such a device to market, yet. That can happen for reasons that have nothing to do with the technology.

 

[MikhailT]

The lack of colour *is* the kindle's fault because they chose eink, and I think most people are sufficiently sensitised to active screens that they can see the advantages outweigh the disadvantages at this moment in time.

Wow, again. What don't you people understand about the difference between Kindle and e-ink? Kindle is a brand, Amazon is the seller, eink is a technology that the screen is made out of. Kindle as the brand is not at fault for anything. Nobody's at fault for not providing color e-ink, it is just NOT possible to mass produce it at the moment, it's too expensive or the technology is not mature enough to provide a good experience. It's like blaming specifically Apple for not providing holographic screen now. It just doesn't make sense.

Secondly, e-ink beside pixelqi is the ONLY technology on the market that can provide a long term reading experience that has high text clarity with good contrast and last a long time without charging. Amazon has to choose that, it can't choose an LCD because LCD has more disadvantages than e-ink does. If LCD was better, every ebook reader would provide an LCD screen and e-ink would be dead by now. e-ink is the only screen that can provide a book quality reading experience. Third if OLED can provide excellent battery life, with excellent text clarity at all modes, and doesn't fade out for a long time, it'll replace e-ink readers no doubt. I do think OLED tablets will replace e-ink readers if they do have those advantages. Unlike OLED, e-ink does not consume power after a page change at all, that's why it last a long time. OLED will consume power at all time except for some color shift such as black or white that can be turned off. The question is how long does it last for somebody like me who can read 3-6 hours long in a single sitting (and the screen not hurting my eyes like LCD would) and I may not be able to charge it for a couple of more days if for example is on a long car ride, or flight, or something else. My kindle last 3 months without me charging.

 

[guet]

Wow, again. What don't you people understand about the difference between Kindle and e-ink? Kindle is a brand, Amazon is the seller, eink is a technology that the screen is made out of....

I'm sure everyone on this board understands that, it's not a very complex concept. The choice of eink has certain limitations. You think they are outweighed by the advantages you list in great detail (which, again, everyone is aware of), other people think differently. Your incredulity really is not warranted. I'm sure you'll stick with your kindle and be happy with it, and an LCD would hurt your eyes (though don't you sometimes use your computer for more than a few hours at a stretch without injury?), but you are not everyone. I personally have been put off tablets thus far specifically because they are single purpose, and they use eink, which has too many compromises to make it useful, in my humble opinion. Evidently people with eink readers currently disagree, but that's OK - the world has room for more than one opinion.

Amazon could indeed have chosen LCD, and I suspect Apple will choose LCD, in which case they will appeal to a lot of people who think the tradeoff between colour/refresh rate/resolution for long battery life with eink just isn't worth it. People who might want to look at photos, view videos, browse the internet etc on their tablet, and are happy to charge it daily to get that. I'm aware kindle provides browsing, but have heard it's a terrible experience (likewise with photos).

Maybe Apple have something with OLED up their sleeve, but because of cost that might not be possible at this stage, I suspect they'll go with LCD initially - we'll see that turn up in iPhones/iPods first probably.

 

[MikhailT]

I'm sure everyone on this board understands that, it's not a very complex concept..... I personally have been put off tablets thus far specifically because they are single purpose, and they use eink, which has too many compromises to make it useful, in my humble opinion. Evidently people with eink readers currently disagree, but that's OK - the world has room for more than one opinion....

A few people keeps saying it is Kindle's fault for not providing color e-ink, if they understood the concept which you have stated to be not complicated, they would understand in the first place that saying it is Kindle's fault makes absolutely no sense. It's like saying it is XBOX's fault for not having holographic storage.

What tablet are you talking about that uses eink? I am curious because I have never heard of a tablet that uses eink (except concept tablets that uses pixelqi but not on the market yet).

 

[guet]

It's like saying it is XBOX's fault for not having holographic storage.

Well, I'd equate it more with saying it is Xbox's (or Microsoft's) fault if they choose not to include a hard disk in the basic Xbox; it's a design choice that some may disagree with. I do see your objection, but really, the point being made is that Amazon has made certain choices with the Kindle, which these posters presumably disagree with, nothing more than that. It's a somewhat strange way to state it (as of course it is not an inanimate object's fault in any case, but a choice by the makers), but surely you see what they're driving at?

What tablet are you talking about that uses eink?

I meant ebook readers (i.e. Sony, Kindle, Nook etc), all of which have the tablet/slate form, use eink for their main display and are pretty much single function tablets (book readers) - partly *because* they use eink which limits their use for other purposes. It will be interesting to see how they stack up against the putative Apple tablet, when it arrives - pretty sure that won't use eink, because it would limit its use to reading text.

 

[kzin]

I suspect Apple will choose LCD, in which case they will appeal to a lot of people who think the tradeoff between colour/refresh rate/resolution for long battery life with eink just isn't worth it. People who might want to look at photos, view videos, browse the internet etc on their tablet, and are happy to charge it daily to get that. I'm aware kindle provides browsing, but have heard it's a terrible experience (likewise with photos).

They'd be smarter if they went with pixelqi's hybrid display. Then they get the advantages of both. In fact, if Apple does a single display tablet, and they don't go with a hybrid display, I'll be quite disappointed. It would, frankly, be stupid of them to just use e-ink or just use an LCD.

I meant ebook readers (i.e. Sony, Kindle, Nook etc), all of which have the tablet/slate form, use eink for their main display and are pretty much single function tablets (book readers) - partly *because* they use eink which limits their use for other purposes.

(bold emphasis mine)

Not all of them. There are a couple that are LCD based with no e-ink.

There's also one that uses two same-size displays, one e-ink and one LCD, giving you the best of both worlds (without going to using a hybrid display). It's the Entourage eDGe. And, unless Apple wow's me with a Mac* OS X based 10" hybrid display tablet with e-reader functionality, and KVM support, before February, I'll be buying one. (* not iPhone OS X).

 

[Thex1138]

For MacBook Tablet or Padlet 4G