Kindle still has an advantage over the iPad

[MisterMe]

i wonder which option makes more $$$ sense to amazon:

pull the app from app store to battle iPad.
or do as you said, and try to sell more books.

You are going off on a tangent. The OP said that Kindle's advantage over the iPad is the Amazon.com bookstore. As you know by now, the iPhone can read ebooks from Amazon.com. Presumably, the app works on the iPad. So, the iPad will have at least the iPhone's ability if the app is not withdrawn.

You have gone off on a tangent about the Kindle's superior hardware capabilities as an ereader. Most potential iPad buyers are well aware of the Kindle's capabilities. Yet, we have not purchased Amazon's monochrome reader. You and your friends continue to tell me why I should purchase a Kindle now. I don't want to do that. Now, tell me why you believe that the Kindle will be better after the iPad hits the shelves.

 

[maflynn]

These Kindle things are dead in the water come March/April. The nice thing is that they'll be available on eBay for cheap, so we can all get one to put away as an antique.

Your fanboism is coloring your common sense and thought process. The kindle is far from being dead in the water.

Right now Amazon has a huge head start.
They have a device for sale. Apple doesn't.
They have a device that lasts weeks on a charge apple's 10 hours
They have e-ink making it quite readable and useable outside - Apple's IPS, not so much
They have a larger inventory of ebooks available for sale. Apple has many of the publishers signed up but w/o a device they're unable to sell anything
Amazon has name recognition for selling books. Time will tell if Apple can also.

My point is not that Amazon is going to beat apple but rather Amazon is not dead in the water. They have a very popular device, that works well that many people are clamoring for. That's not going to change.

Amazon has neither the taste, experience, talent or technology to compete successfully with Apple.

You do realize that amazon started with nothing and created a whole new industry from nothing. I'd say they have the experience, talent and technology to compete with apple 🙄

 

[*LTD*]

YThey have a very popular device, that works well that many people are clamoring for.

You do realize that amazon started with nothing and created a whole new industry from nothing. I'd say they have the experience, talent and technology to compete with apple 🙄

How many people, exactly, are "clamoring" for the Kindle? Because we still haven't seen any numbers, only vague references to "millions", which means the situation isn't good.

Amazon is practically giving these things away. Buy at least one book per month and you've got a Kindle.

Amazon has experience in selling books online. That's it. They in no way, shape or form are even in the same galaxy as Apple when it comes to software, hardware, or Apple's entire ecosystem.

I haven't seen any Kindles. Anywhere. iPhones and iPods abound. Where are these amazing Kindle devices? Oh, but they'll catch on. Yes, they will . . . in a parallel universe in which the iPad doesn't exist.

And Amazon doesn't want you to know that. "We've sold millions . . . but if we tell you exactly how many we won't look so good. So in order to avoid getting raked over the coals in the media, and in order to avoid getting laughed at by Apple and industry pundits, we'll keep quiet about our REAL numbers and just start giving these things away and put all our eggs in the Touchco basket. Hopefully we'll sell enough by the time the iPad hits the shelves, because by that time it might already be too late."

Amazon should focus on something more worthwhile, like, oh, say a Kindle app for the iPad.

With the iPad on the market, and with more and more publishers getting behind Apple (all of them will eventually have to), there will be no reason whatsoever to own a Kindle, unless you're putting one away to sell as an antique later on.

 

[maflynn]

How many people, exactly, are "clamoring" for the Kindle? Because we still haven't seen any numbers, only vague references to "millions", which means the situation isn't good.

Since when is selling millions of units not a good thing especially in the short time frame they've been made available?

Amazon is practically giving these things away. Buy at least one book per month and you've got a Kindle.

So? I'm not getting your point here

Amazon has experience in selling books online. That's it. They in no way, shape or form are even in the same galaxy as Apple when it comes to software, hardware, or Apple's entire ecosystem.

I disagree. Their ability to selling books and now ability to sell ebooks is in the same galaxy of apple

I haven't seen any Kindles. Anywhere. iPhones and iPods abound. Where are these amazing Kindle devices? Oh, but they'll catch on. Yes, they will . . . in a parallel universe in which the iPad doesn't exist.

I typically see people on the subway with a Kindle.

With the iPad on the market, and with more and more publishers getting behind Apple (all of them will eventually have to), there will be no reason whatsoever to own a Kindle, unless you're putting one away to sell as an antique later on.

That's your opinion and one that is not shared by others and thats my point. your fanboism is impacting your judgement. You bow down to the alter of apple, i.e., they can do no wrong and anyone who competes with them are lost and/or evil.

Nothing is set in stone, many many people are pronouncing the iPad DOA because of its short comings and I disbelieve them just as much as I disbelieve that amazon's kindle is DOA once apple's iPad hits the streets.

I don't think apple will quickly unseat the kindle as an ebook reader because amazon is so adept at selling books (whether they're physical or electronic) and the kindle is a great device for doing that. Apple has advantages as well, but only time will tell if people will be willing to pay more $$ for an iPad then for a kindle to read an ebook.

 

[*LTD*]

I don't think apple will quickly unseat the kindle as an ebook reader because amazon is so adept at selling books (electronic)

That's going to change very soon.

You can get an ebook reader that's good at displaying books.

Or you can get an iPad that isn't bad at displaying books, and does every other delicious and wonderful thing an iPhone does (and more) but on a much larger screen.

My point is that there's a good reason why Amazon is scrambling to implement some form of touch technology into the Kindle. Bezos can see the writing on the wall.

 

[roadbloc]

That's going to change very soon.

So *LTD* can see into the future now 🙄

That's like saying there is no need for me to buy a calculator, because the iPad comes with one.

I have no need for an iPad. But, I have been interested in eBooks for a while, so the Kindle sounds like a good thing for me.

As for my gran tho, thats a different story. When her computer looses the will to live, I will get her an iPad to replace it.

 

[zemzabob]

I think KIndle has its place in the market, I do think we will see a big price drop on the Kindle do to the ipad, which may turn out to be a good thing for Amazon.

 

[ditzy]

The Kindle has another major weakness that no one has bought up. It is only available on Amazon.com. I'm sure that this limits sales, even within North America. For people like me who live outside of North America it is extremely annoying. You pay in a currency which is not your own, which means that you don't know exactly what you're paying. You then have to wait for it to be shipped. Then you have to worry about whether you'll have to pay duty on it. Then when you finally do have the Kindle, you have to again buy books on the American store.
In short a hassle. Amazon may be able to hold on to their dominance in North America. In the rest of the world, they haven't established the dominance yet, and I don't think that they will be able to.

 

[IgnatiusTheKing]

You pay in a currency which is not your own, which means that you don't know exactly what you're paying. You then have to wait for it to be shipped. Then you have to worry about whether you'll have to pay duty on it. Then when you finally do have the Kindle, you have to again buy books on the American store.

I bet Amazon will be selling Kindles and Kindle content in Euros, British Pounds, etc. pretty soon. While it is odd that they haven't done that yet, I suppose it really hasn't been that long since they started selling the Kindle with "global wireless". As for duties, Amazon claims...

Your international shipment is subject to VAT. This is the same VAT rate you pay when you buy products in your country. There are NO customs duties or any other fees. We will show you the estimated VAT upon checkout.

...so it's not really more expensive. In fact, if you live in the UK or Europe, you might be getting a better deal than Americans on the Kindle hardware and content.

 

[ditzy]

I bet Amazon will be selling Kindles and Kindle content in Euros, British Pounds, etc. pretty soon. While it is odd that they haven't done that yet, I suppose it really hasn't been that long since they started selling the Kindle with "global wireless". As for duties, Amazon claims...



...so it's not really more expensive. In fact, if you live in the UK or Europe, you might be getting a better deal than Americans on the Kindle hardware and content.

It is more expensive. We pay significantly more to Amazon. As an example Twilight by Stephanie Meyer $4.25 for American customers $5.50 for non Americans. That's not including tax.

 

[bossxii]

The Kindle has a few advantages in the area of readability of e-ink, free 3g and battery life.

The iPad, which I'll assume has the same IPS as my 27" iMac and adjustments for me is very easy to read and I can use it in a dim/dark room. This for me makes the iPad more useable in more places/light conditions. I read tons of material for hours on end every day for work on my iMac and have yet to get a headache or eye strain. The iPad has so many more uses than the kindle, it will have prospective buyers looking at both for sure. I have two family members that are heavy Kindle users, both have taken an interest in the iPad simply for the fact it can surf and do email. They both really enjoy their Kindle but also see the benefit of not having to go sit at their desks to deal with email or the web. The do not own laptops, only desktop machines.

The "all in one" appeal of the iPad is what I think will take away Kindle sales. Not everyone gets a headache from reading a backlit display, and IPS imo is a much better experience than older TFT displays. The sharper image and text with adjustable brightness allows me to use it in more light conditions. Sure it's not as easy to use outside, but I don't recall the last time I sat outside reading. Oct to March it's too damn cold anyhow. We don't all live in warm climates 12 months of the year 🙂

 

[Demosthenes X]

The point is, Apple and Amazon aren't really competing here.

Apple wants to sell hardware first, books second. If people buy the iPad, the win.

Amazon is the opposite: they want to sell books first - selling the Kindle is just a way to give people the ability to buy books.

So if people buy the iPad and then use Amazon's Kindle app, Amazon wins. And so does Apple.

 

[IgnatiusTheKing]

It is more expensive. We pay significantly more to Amazon. As an example Twilight by Stephanie Meyer $4.25 for American customers $5.50 for non Americans. That's not including tax.

That may be so, but that still only converts to only ₤3.53 or €4.02. Once the Kindle UK or Kindle Germany/France/etc. stores are open, that price is likely to be ₤4.25 or €4.25, is it not?

 

[marksman]

There's a free Kindle reader for the iPhone/iPod touch.

Expect to see an updated reader to take advantage of the iPad's increased display size and capabilities.

Amazon wins either way.

Expect apple to say all e-book reader apps on iPad are a no go especially the Kindle Reader.

Makes zero sense for Apple to introduce agency publishing for publishers and then introduce a method on their own device to get the exact same content from someone else for the exact same price and not get any of the money.

That makes zero sense as a business decision, and for a business you are trying to build from the ground up it is even worse.

It is like wal-mart putting in a little mini grocery store inside each of their stores that sold the same stuff they did for the same price, but did not pay any rent or give any money to wal mart. Why on earth would they do that.

 

[marksman]

its a ebook, if active display is that good, laptop/desktop/netbook would have taken over books already.

The reason why people don't read books on those objects is they are too big and awkward.

Does not have anything to do with the screen.

 

[marksman]

Amazon is making their money from the content sold, not the hardware.

Given they were subsidizing a good portion of their ebook sales (selling it for 9.99 when the might pay the publisher 12.99 for it) I would disagree.

Amazon has likely made NO money on e-book content, but instead lost not a small amount of money. Tried to make some up on the hardware, other part was trying to corner the ebook market.

Problem is that jig is up, and they did not accomplish their goal. So now they are in a bit of trouble.

 

[jb1280]

Expect apple to say all e-book reader apps on iPad are a no go especially the Kindle Reader.

Makes zero sense for Apple to introduce agency publishing for publishers and then introduce a method on their own device to get the exact same content from someone else for the exact same price and not get any of the money.

That makes zero sense as a business decision, and for a business you are trying to build from the ground up it is even worse.

It is like wal-mart putting in a little mini grocery store inside each of their stores that sold the same stuff they did for the same price, but did not pay any rent or give any money to wal mart. Why on earth would they do that.

I think this really remains to be seen and is one of the big questions in this debate with Amazon's Kindle.

I think a big question is how hard is Apple going to push the ebook reader aspect of the device?

You make a valid argument that Apple may not redundancy on the device with a Kindle app. I think even Apple might consider this a bit short-sided.

From a marketing point of view, I imagine Apple would like to shift the burden to Amazon. "Even if you currently own a Kindle, you can read all your Kindle books on the iPad. You can even continue to purchase books from Amazon." I bet Apple is more interested in locking people into the iPad OS environment over mandating that all books have to be purchased through ibooks.

I know it's a little bit different, but do you have to purchase music through iTunes to play it on the iPhone or iPod Touch? No.

The other side of this question is whether Amazon will even develop an app for the iPad? Are they in the Kindle business or in the book business. In the last 10 days Amazon has looked a little schizophrenic. In my opinion they need to keep their eye on selling books in as many places and making as good of an ebook reader at the lowest price they can.

In spite of the iPad I still feel ebooks are a niche product. People who are planning on purchasing an iPad may at some point use it as an ebook reader, so Amazon really needs to focus on making a really really good ebook reader, cheaply. If they try to enter the mobile tablet market, god speed.

 

[thejakill]

in response to the obvious amazon trolls on the this thread:

i think kindle will continue to have modest success with the kindle. kindle DX is dead. no one would pay the same price for that as an ipad.

once again, many ipad haters are focusing on specs only, and placing greater emphasis on them than need be. sure, kindle has a longer battery life, but are you really going to sit and read for hour after hour, every day? most people read in shorter periods, under an hour at a time i'm sure. ipad's 10 hour battery will be far more than necessary. the kindle has a longer battery life because it can't do as much.

sure, amazon has a head start, but apple has the infrastructure in place to catch up quickly. it also has a far superior device, with color and video and web capabilities the kindle can't even dream of.

there's a reason you see so many kindle ads lately. amazon has seen the writing on the wall, and it says "ipad".

 

[jb1280]

in response to the obvious amazon trolls on the this thread:

i think kindle will continue to have modest success with the kindle. kindle DX is dead. no one would pay the same price for that as an ipad.

once again, many ipad haters are focusing on specs only, and placing greater emphasis on them than need be. sure, kindle has a longer battery life, but are you really going to sit and read for hour after hour, every day? most people read in shorter periods, under an hour at a time i'm sure. ipad's 10 hour battery will be far more than necessary. the kindle has a longer battery life because it can't do as much.

sure, amazon has a head start, but apple has the infrastructure in place to catch up quickly. it also has a far superior device, with color and video and web capabilities the kindle can't even dream of.

there's a reason you see so many kindle ads lately. amazon has seen the writing on the wall, and it says "ipad".

You are right that the Kindle DX is dead. I think you are overestimating the fate of the Kindle though. It is a niche product that everyone who owns one seems to love. If they can get the price down to $199 I imagine it is still very viable.

 

[Mr Bigs]

Your fanboism is coloring your common sense and thought process. The kindle is far from being dead in the water.

Right now Amazon has a huge head start.
They have a device for sale. Apple doesn't.
They have a device that lasts weeks on a charge apple's 10 hours
They have e-ink making it quite readable and useable outside - Apple's IPS, not so much
They have a larger inventory of ebooks available for sale. Apple has many of the publishers signed up but w/o a device they're unable to sell anything
Amazon has name recognition for selling books. Time will tell if Apple can also.

My point is not that Amazon is going to beat apple but rather Amazon is not dead in the water. They have a very popular device, that works well that many people are clamoring for. That's not going to change.



You do realize that amazon started with nothing and created a whole new industry from nothing. I'd say they have the experience, talent and technology to compete with apple 🙄

I think your fanboism is really getting the best of you. What are the odds that people who own Kindle's also own iPods ?

 

[yodaxl7]

Kindle dx costs $485!!! enough said. Ipad wins!!

 

[Hammie]

I couldn't agree with the OP more. I think the Kindle will continue its success path. The users of the iPad are very different than the users of the Kindle.

My wife has the Kindle DX. She has no desire to get an iPad. She also works in a school. Many of the teachers (over 60%) have Kindles (2 or DX). Very few have any interest in getting an iPad. They have the Kindles for one task and that is to read their ebooks. I really don't think the shiny screens will be well received by book readers. Heck, I'm hoping they come with a matte screen protector like I have on my iPhone.

Personally, I will use my iPad for the occasional ebook and all of my PDF technical files and books since I have about 6 GB of them. A mojority of my time will be web surfing, e-mail, and maybe some music (doubtful, but maybe). I plan on getting the 250 3G plan since I am only about 175/mo on my iPhone. If I start to use it more, then I will obviously get the unlimited plan. I'm excited about it and plan on getting the 64GB with 3G version.

I think for someone looking for more of a book "experience," the Kindle is the better option. If you occasionally read and want a more robust device (with games and other misc. apps), then you are more likely an iPad candidate.

I think Apple will succeed with ebooks sales just as they have succeeded with digital audio sales (which Amazon also sells). I think the company who moves to lossless audio will be the most successful. Many of my friends would never buy an MP3 or AAC file because it is not lossless. Personally, I don't either. The only downloads I get are the free ones from Starbucks.

All this speculation about companies failing because the iPad has been announced is crazy. No one knows how this will turn out. Personally, I think they will both be successful because like I said before, different people will be buying each respective device. I also think the iPad OS will evolve into a very robust OS and will surprise many down the road.

😎

 

[*LTD*]

Kindle dx costs $485!!! enough said. Ipad wins!!

What? You can't be serious. It's a friggin ebook reader. That's all.

- 16 levels of gray
- no touch
- 3.3gb of storage
- has one function

(Well, now that we're talking specs 'n all.)

$485

And people accuse Apple of "overcharging"??

Once the iPad hits the shelves Amazon's Kindle fantasy is DONE. And all the suckers who coughed up $485 plus tax for these "ebook readers" can merrily eBay them for half price.

These folks are purchasing the Kindle not for the device itself, but to get access to Amazon's resources, digitally. Except that publishers are already getting behind the iPad in droves. Those resources are shifting. For the simple reason that the iPad and what it brings to the table is The Next Big thing. It's all about device convergence. Amazon's expensive ebook reader over a hot-sh*t iPad? LOL, not gonna happen. Not only is he iPad already destined to be the King of Content, but in terms of its UI, online experience, more powerful apps, backed by an ocean of developers looking to cash in all over again, it's like candy.

And guess what, Apple is taking aim squarely at the education market. And they'll take that, too. Easily. Think of the music industry and iTunes. Now apply the same thinking to ebooks and other print media that's gone (or will go) digital. Beautifully simple.

Apple in one fell swoop just destroyed the single-function ebook reader market. Expect that segment of the industry to fold into iPad-like multifunction devices. Hopefully this is the direction in which Bezos is taking Amazon. Otherwise it won't even be a game of catch-up for Amazon, but there will be no game at all.

 

[marksman]

I am sure Amazon will move 10s of Kindles between now and when the iPad officially comes out.

 

[RMXO]

What? You can't be serious. It's a friggin ebook reader. That's all.

- 16 levels of gray
- no touch
- 3.3gb of storage
- has one function

(Well, now that we're talking specs 'n all.)

$485

And people accuse Apple of "overcharging"??

Once the iPad hits the shelves Amazon's Kindle fantasy is DONE. And all the suckers who coughed up $485 plus tax for these "ebook readers" can merrily eBay them for half price.

These folks are purchasing the Kindle not for the device itself, but to get access to Amazon's resources, digitally. Except that publishers are already getting behind the iPad in droves. Those resources are shifting. For the simple reason that the iPad and what it brings to the table is The Next Big thing. It's all about device convergence. Amazon's expensive ebook reader over a hot-sh*t iPad? LOL, not gonna happen. Not only is he iPad already destined to be the King of Content, but in terms of its UI, online experience, more powerful apps, backed by an ocean of developers looking to cash in all over again, it's like candy.

And guess what, Apple is taking aim squarely at the education market. And they'll take that, too. Easily. Think of the music industry and iTunes. Now apply the same thinking to ebooks and other print media that's gone (or will go) digital. Beautifully simple.

Apple in one fell swoop just destroyed the single-function ebook reader market. Expect that segment of the industry to fold into iPad-like multifunction devices. Hopefully this is the direction in which Bezos is taking Amazon. Otherwise it won't even be a game of catch-up for Amazon, but there will be no game at all.

but the Kindle has free 3G. 😛

/sarcasm off