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Why don't you guys just be happy that you're actually discussing this matter. I'm in China, where a rubbish bin has about a ten feet radius where it's ok to throw litter.

I see grown men, when they finish a bottle just throw it in the street and not even blink an eye. Mothers encourage their children to do so, as if it was logical.

Many shops don't even have a rubbish bin. They just throw it out in front of the shop and wait for the garbage person at night.

People vomit and children piss in the street.

Be happy you guys are arguing about what's the most environmentally safe way to dispose of your "bio-waste".
 
^^^^It's not that we wonder why you are so direct. We don't call it that.



It's a good thing that In-Sinkerators are banned in Canada! Oh wait, they're not.

I had one in every house I lived in while growing up.....wait for it...... in Canada. So did pretty much everyone else that I knew. And they still have them.

Yep, we had one for while too, in the city... before our compost program started (our city was a bit slow on the uptake sometimes). Though we were among the few in our building that had one. And yes, coffee grounds and tea bags can be flushed down the drain, but not corn husks.... We had our dishwasher discharge hooked up to the unit, so it never got stinky.

Of course, I also used to throw hazardous waste (paint thinners, used car oil, etc) down the drain when I was younger too. Now I know better. Someone pointed out to me why this was not a good idea back then, and I learnt from it. :)
 
Funny, I never would have thrown something like paint thinner or engine oil down a drain. That was always kind of obvious to me, even as a little kid. Didn't need to learn that.

I see what you're trying to do with that last sentence......you think that because you're pointing something out (like someone did for you) that we should be like: "Oh, I'll do that now." However, I don't think you can really compare disposing of a chemical like paint thinner down a drain and brushing off the scraps of grilled cheese from a plate down a drain. It doesn't mean that I'm not civilized.

I do every recycling and environmentally friendly activity that I feel are reasonable, which includes taking my plastics and glass to the recycling depot in my local grocery store parking lot (no recycling pick up program in my building). If I don't feel like having a rotting pile of food on my deck, I think that's okay.

What is getting people riled up is the ridiculous generalizations that a certain poster is making in this thread and the rude way he has decided to post.

/don't care anymore
 
Funny, I never would have thrown something like paint thinner or engine oil down a drain. That was always kind of obvious to me, even as a little kid. Didn't need to learn that.
A lot changes over the years. When I was a kid, our parents only made us use seat belts on the highway, when the snow got slippery. This was just normal behaviour, if you even had seat belts in the car. Now it's almost unthinkable. Or, it was normal to dump toxic waste, just above the waterline, and build a housing tract over it (Love Canal).
I see what you're trying to do with that last sentence......you think that because you're pointing something out (like someone did for you) that we should be like: "Oh, I'll do that now."
Why Not? I've tried, in my posts, to point out why I think it's a good idea to not use an in-sink garbage disposal. No one has posted any rebuttals, other than it's inconvenient. I haven't really insulted anyone, though I do admit at pushing the American Sense of Superiority button a bit. (It's just so easy to do. :D ) Plus, being an immigrant from the States to Canada, I figure I'm entitled, plus I've got relatives in the US.
However, I don't think you can really compare disposing of a chemical like paint thinner down a drain and brushing off the scraps of grilled cheese from a plate down a drain.
At one time it was perfectly acceptable to dispose of paint thinners that way. There were even instructions on how to do it "safely". Same thing for photographic darkroom chemicals. Times have changed, as society has started to grapple with the implications of waste water, and the the lack of clean water.
It doesn't mean that I'm not civilized.
That wasn't me! I said something like "Not with it" or "Behind the times"
I do every recycling and environmentally friendly activity that I feel are reasonable, which includes taking my plastics and glass to the recycling depot in my local grocery store parking lot (no recycling pick up program in my building). If I don't feel like having a rotting pile of food on my deck, I think that's okay.
Fine. If the program doesn't exist, it can be pain. If you are interested in composting, there are worm digesters that you can tuck under your kitchen sink. I understand they don't smell, and they are pretty cool. Only suitable for vegetable matter, not meats. Or, there is probably a neighbourhood community garden that will gladly take at least the vegetable matter off your hands, gladly.

I'm not actually interested in changing your behaviour. One does what they can with what they have. But, when we non-Americans state that, in this regard, the USA is behind the rest of the world, its just true. It would be nice to just hear a collective " Yes we are, and we are trying to do something about it." By the way, I might have grazed that American Sense of Superiority button again.
What is getting people riled up is the ridiculous generalizations that a certain poster is making in this thread and the rude way he has decided to post.

don't care anymore

Best way to deal with it is to ignore it, eh?

What surprises me is that Los Angeles hasn't moved to composting and banned garbage disposal units. They use a large amount of water to run. It doesn't make sense (to me at least) to move water hundreds and thousands of km to use it to wash garbage into the sea. But that's just me.
 
Best way to deal with it is to ignore it, eh?

*sigh*

I'm not ignoring it, I simply don't care about this particular thread anymore. The tone of this discussion isn't very friendly, and I don't care to continue to be involved in it.

FTR, I'm Canadian. I just happen to live in the US (and only for the past ~3 years). You mentioned that you "might have grazed that American Sense of Superiority button again"......seems like you (guys) are the one(s) trying to act superior in here. Not very Canadian of you.....

It's also interesting how neither of you addressed what I posted in post #49. That's far more embarrassing than throwing some leftover fajitas down my drain.

I don't really care to bicker about this, that is why I'm trying to move on to more interesting subjects.
 
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*sigh*

I'm not ignoring it, I simply don't care about this particular thread anymore. The tone of this discussion isn't very friendly, and I don't care to continue to be involved in it.

FTR, I'm Canadian. I just happen to live in the US (and only for the past ~3 years). You mentioned that you "might have grazed that American Sense of Superiority button again"......seems like you (guys) are the one(s) trying to act superior in here. Not very Canadian of you.....

It's also interesting how neither of you addressed what I posted in post #49. That's far more embarrassing than throwing some leftover fajitas down my drain.

I don't really care to bicker about this, that is why I'm trying to move on to more interesting subjects.

Lucky I know you, or I’d start to wonder about Canadians on MacRumors. Is it me, or am I the only one that sees this image every time the aforementioned internet bully posts in these forums?
noob.jpg
 
*sigh*

...
FTR, I'm Canadian. I just happen to live in the US (and only for the past ~3 years). You mentioned that you "might have grazed that American Sense of Superiority button again"......seems like you (guys) are the one(s) trying to act superior in here. Not very Canadian of you.....
Yeah, your avatar might have given you away. Plus I've other threads you've participated in. I won't apologize for pushing button. I try to do with with humour if I can, and I try to back it up with facts. I don't get rude about it. I do it because too many of my southern cousins believe in American Superiority in Everything. It's annoying.

I sometimes I'm avoiding work, so I get my jollies by occasionally confronting ludicrous Superior statements. I try not to start these discussions, but instead wait for the inevitable Superior Statement. And then I can be sure of an afternoon's distraction. It doesn't help that so many American posters ..... ok, never mind... I'll avoid that button.
It's also interesting how neither of you addressed what I posted in post #49. That's far more embarrassing than throwing some leftover fajitas down my drain.
That's because it bloody embarrassing! All I can say is.... I didn't vote for the current government that allows this to happen, and that I did vote for the 1st Green Party member to be elected in North America. It won't make a whit of difference.... but at least I did small (very small) thing to make the Asbestos thing better.
I don't really care to bicker about this, that is why I'm trying to move on to more interesting subjects.

I'm really not trying to get at you. I generally like your posts. But I also notice you didn't address the whole water usage issue. And no one has addressed my question of higher taxes. This could have been a good debate, but the best reason anybody has come up with to not do more composting is that it's not convenient, for them. (I could've pushed another button there...)

Finally. I don't feel superior to Americans. I feel that many communities outside of the States are doing things better than most communities in the States (eg: waste disposal). I don't feel "better" because of this, I just feel that my community is more liveable than anything south of the border. For me.
 
Please. Stop. You're not helping the cause for other Americans. Why do you guys from the US insist on showing your ignorance on this topic and throwing out your food residue into the water stream ?
Food will decompose on it's own so why the need to recycle it? It is not like plastic that won't break down for 1000 years. A piece of meat will be nothing but worm food in a few weeks. We have more important things to get picked up in the trash than a few table scraps that can easily be ground up in the disposal saving a trip from the garbage truck hauling it away. How do you even recycle food any ways? What do you do with it.

Maybe you are the one who should learn about how food decomposes before calling us americans ignorant.
 
Food will decompose on it's own so why the need to recycle it? It is not like plastic that won't break down for 1000 years. A piece of meat will be nothing but worm food in a few weeks. We have more important things to get picked up in the trash than a few table scraps that can easily be ground up in the disposal saving a trip from the garbage truck hauling it away. How do you even recycle food any ways? What do you do with it.

Maybe you are the one who should learn about how food decomposes before calling us americans ignorant.

Food that get dumped in landfill takes up valuable space (unless the dump is located on free land, and has an unlimited ability to expand). Most major cities in North America, I believe, are now having to truck/barge/train their garbage further and further. At the taxpayer's expense.

Food matter that is disposed of in a dump is combined with a bunch of other, wet, non-decompostable stuff It's not aerated, not in contact with normal dirt (with it's bugs and worms and bacteria), and then it's covered over with more wet non-compostable stuff. So, it never really becomes "worm food". It just becomes a stinking, non-aerobic, rotting mass that then needs to be sealed over on top to keep the stink in, ventilated with air pipes to let the methane out, and sealed around the perimeter to keep the nasty liquids from getting out. It is not "decomposing" naturally, it is rotting slowly. Bleech.

If it's being "recycled" (i.e. picked up and composted) it is being "decomposed" in a natural way, with worms and bugs and bacteria. It then turns into something that can be put into gardens to enrich the soil. In a backyard unit, only vegetable matter is used. Meat and oils can attract vermin, and don't compost well in the backyard conditions. However, in an industrial composting facility they have so much stuff that the natural heat of the process gets high enough to sterilize all the food stuffs. In the end the compost is sold to farmers, or given to city residents. It's good stuff for the garden. Really good stuff.

What water usage issue?:confused:

Water used while running the disposal. As others have posted, it requires water while used, and occasionally a lot of water if it's starting to clog up. (I do have experience with them.) While it's not as much as a sinkful of water, it ranks up there with brushing your teeth (South West Florida Water Management District) at 4 gallons/minute.

A disposal firm called Gadore recommends running the water for 45 seconds, assuming a typical 1/2 minute grind plus 15 seconds to clear the trap. (Ain't the internet wonderful, eh?). The EPA says the average American family of 4 uses about 400 Gallons of water per day, the highest per capita users in the OECD. (However, Canada is right there at 2nd highest user. And while the US is actually bringing their water usage per person down, Canada is still heading in the wrong direction.)

In other words, every minute of grinding adds about 1% to a family's water usage. That can add up to a fair bit of water, especially in city the size of LA.
 
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Water used while running the disposal. As others have posted, it requires water while used, and occasionally a lot of water if it's starting to clog up. (I do have experience with them.) While it's not as much as a sinkful of water, it ranks up there with brushing your teeth (South West Florida Water Management District) at 4 gallons/minute.

A disposal firm called Gadore recommends running the water for 45 seconds, assuming a typical 1/2 minute grind plus 15 seconds to clear the trap. (Ain't the internet wonderful, eh?). The EPA says the average American family of 4 uses about 400 Gallons of water per day, the highest per capita users in the OECD. (However, Canada is right there at 2nd highest user. And while the US is actually bringing their water usage per person down, Canada is still heading in the wrong direction.)

In other words, every minute of grinding adds about 1% to a family's water usage. That can add up to a fair bit of water, especially in city the size of LA.

It hardly uses much extra water at all. I run it while rinsing dishes. I think I've had a clog once in my life, and that was due to corn husks, which I had to pull out. I waste more water waiting the 5-10 seconds for the hot water to arrive first thing in the morning.

Are you part of some sort of anti-Insinkerator lobby group? :rolleyes::eek:

Are we done now?
 
Our green-bin compost program is municipally managed, as are most waste management policies, so I don't see where nationalism comes in. Every village has its idiot, I suppose.

And we all know they should stay away from garbage disposals.
 
I don't think so - take it to KnightWRX's house instead. :p

Thanks for a great laugh today!

Yes, let's just make fun of the more enviro-educated people instead of addressing their arguments. Of course, then you'd actually need counter-arguments.

Hey, composting is done in your backyard so it's bad and stinks! :rolleyes:

Like Surely, I don't care anymore. It's not my water supply and water treatment facilities you guys are polluting and over-taxing.
 
Yes, let's just make fun of the more enviro-educated people instead of addressing their arguments. Of course, then you'd actually need counter-arguments.

I don't have a counter-argument because I don't disagree with the main thrust of your point - on the whole the US is well behind much of the world when it comes to environmental issues. What I was trying to do is insert a little bit of levity into a thread that, IMO, really could have been much more informative instead of inflammatory.
 
What are you throwing out that you need a hazmat bin?

Ah, Quebec. Not behind the times at all.:rolleyes:

I still want to know what a Bio bin is, the only places I ever see them are in hospitals.

So unless all of you people have used syringes or bloody sheets what do you need them for.

Guys, I leave you to your own devices for a few weeks, and this happens.

Mr. Subaru is probably a Francophone, and English is a second language to him.

Hence his confusing 'biohazard' with 'biodegradable'.


thm.gif
 
Yes, let's just make fun of the more enviro-educated people instead of addressing their arguments. Of course, then you'd actually need counter-arguments.

Hey, composting is done in your backyard so it's bad and stinks! :rolleyes:

Like Surely, I don't care anymore. It's not my water supply and water treatment facilities you guys are polluting and over-taxing.
To be fair how can you be against throwing food down the drain but ok with human waste going down the pipe?
 
To be fair how can you be against throwing food down the drain but ok with human waste going down the pipe?

Because one is full of nasty microbes that can cause diseases if it gets into either the food chain or the water supply... Most cases of "food poisoning" is from fecal matter. But there are other even nastier consequences from human waste getting back into the food/water supply.

And the other can be easily home processed (and free)into something that can be used in the garden for either ornamental plants or food plants. And by using it in the garden you can avoid using store-bought fertilizers that, at a minimum, cost money. I don't personally buy the "cancer causing" argument for artificial fertilizers, though there are some studies that claim the connection.

And, if garbage disposal units magically disappeared from everybody's homes, taxes would go down due to less sewage needing processing and less water needing to be supplied........ Hooo Hooo Hooo..... LOL What the heck am I smoking, eh???? Taxes won't go down.... but there should be some more money at least to pay for upgrades and repairs.

I don't actually care if you use or don't use a garbage disposal.... it's a free country. And sometimes so is the US (kidding!!!) However the was some question (earlier) about whether there was a downside to a garbage disposal. I pointed out that there is some harm to the environment, and that it doesn't make a lot of sense financially for a community to not have the alternatives. But we do lots of things that aren't necessarily good for us. I might also challenge someone who claims that there is no harm in smoking (OK, not smoking - too much evidence and at some point we have to let Darwin work) or in not using seat belts, etc etc

For a community, garbage disposal units don't make sense. Forward looking communities are providing alternatives. That's all I'm saying.

Go Canucks!
 
I don't think the water usage is that much higher with a disposal, plus there is no waste because the food is chopped up so fine that it is basically liquid going down the drain.
 
Clearly different regions have different ideas about recycling and compost.

Here in my city (in Canada), we've only recently been mandated to use a green bin for recycling of organics. I am perfectly fine with the idea in principle but I think the implementation is heavyhanded and inconvenient (I have to jump through hoops to keep my green bin from becoming stinky and maggot infested).

I was once at a conference in a particular state which shall remain unnamed. At the end of the conference I was helping to clean up an activity area. Naturally -- since I've done this all my life -- I threw away the trash and separated the paper materials -- thousands of sheets of leftover paper. I asked the organizer where to put all the recyclables. She looked at me like I had two heads. I explained - "You know, all this paper. Where's your recycling?" She just kinda looked at me and said "Uhhhhh, just leave it all there in that pile, and I'll make sure it gets .... recycled." Right. :rolleyes:

So in my region paper recycling is a big thing, but I know that some areas (and people) think it's not worth the energy expended.
 
What towns are starting to do is called "single stream recycling" meaning everything but garbage. Newspaper, cardboard, plastics, cartons. Basically anything that isn't dirty all goes into one bin and then gets sorted out at the plant.
 
I don't think the water usage is that much higher with a disposal, plus there is no waste because the food is chopped up so fine that it is basically liquid going down the drain.

As mentioned earlier, about 4 gallons per minute (at least that is the figure SW Florida uses). Or, if you use the disposal just once a day for one minute, about 1% of a normal American family's usage (with 4 people - about 400 gallons a day according to the EPA). If you use the disposal for one minute per meal, then about 3%. In the city of 100,000 people, the equivalent of 1000 homes total usage, for each minute of use assuming every house uses one. How much money does it take to build capacity at the water plant for 1000 homes? If only 1/3 of the houses have a disposal, but they are using it 3 times a day, the it's still 1000 houses worth of water. Per day.

Yes, the food is emulsified. But you can't just dump it into the nearest river. So it needs to be screened/settled/filtered along with all of the other "stuff". It adds a fair bit to the "stuff" that needs to be removed at the treatment plant, and then all of that "stuff" has to be dealt with. All at taxpayer's expense of course.
 
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