Knights of the Old Republic (MAC) - Any issues I should expect?

[EnialusMeliamne]

All,
I recently bought a copy of the Aspyr conversion of the Knights of the Old Republic. I'm awaiting delivery which could be about two weeks since I'm overseas for a bit. Two fold post: 1. Does/has anyone played this version on an early '08 Macbook Pro (15.4" display running 2.5GHz Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, 250GB hard drive, GeForce 8600 w/512MB)? 2. and if you did were there any glaring issues that you had when doing so? I'm hoping not, but if you do, do you mind sharing any and all workarounds you might have had to use? I would very much appreciate any and all assistance.

 

[eXan]

I tried to run it on my 2007 low-end iMac, but it ran as fast (or should I say "as slow") as on my GMA950 MacBook, both Frame Buffer Effects and Soft Shadows options greyed out.

This was with the latest patch that has "beta" Universal Binary support.

 

[EnialusMeliamne]

Thanks for the input/response! Very much appreciate knowing what to expect from the game. It will be a few weeks before I have the game, but I'll keep the graphics on low as you alluded too, and I'll make sure to "patch" it up to full.

Truth be told, I almost bought XP OEM w/SP3 just to run a few of the other games I own via bootcamp (BGI and II, NWN, IWD I and II, etc). I had it in shopping cart at Newegg, created a profile and was at the check out part when I decided to just buy the Aspyr copy of KOTOR instead. If push comes to shove, I may still do that but I don't relish running Windows partitioned on my Macbook. The whole point being that when I bought the Mac to avoid Microsoft Vista (have it at work...loathe, despise and can not stand it). Overall LOVE the Mac (and won't go back), but eventually I may just have to buy XP (Thankfully copies are still around...) in order to get my "fix" of those games.

Again, VERY much appreciate the response. I may repost once I get the game, for advice.

Regards.

EM

 

[eXan]

Thanks for the input/response! Very much appreciate knowing what to expect from the game. It will be a few weeks before I have the game, but I'll keep the graphics on low as you alluded too, and I'll make sure to "patch" it up to full.

I'm not sure if my slow performance is due to a graphics driver bug, or its the same on nVIDIA too. You may have a much better performance

 

[Miharu]

I have this game and playing with the latest patch (Universal beta), and it's buggy as hell. I am playing on an intel iMac with Ati Radeon HD 2600. It isn't any faster than on my previous Mac mini (PPC), but there are plenty of graphical artefacts especially in outdoor areas rendering the game unplayable at some points.

You might actually have better performance using an older version of the game (PPC patch 1.03C, not the universal beta 1.03D).

The intel patch is a beta version, hence it's very buggy. And it will most likely never be completed. If I remember correctly, the guy in charge of making the patch quit at Aspyr just after the beta was released.

 

[aki]

i played through osx kotor on a ppc imac before and it was no problems at all.... cant comment about the intel version

from what above poster is saying it sounds like maybe the windows version under bootcamp would be a better choice....... i soooo hate saying stuff like that but well

kotor is a great game tho you should def play

 

[eXan]

i played through osx kotor on a ppc imac before and it was no problems at all.... cant comment about the intel version

Its much more stable on PPC.

the windows version under bootcamp would be a better choice

No doubt about it.

 

[EnialusMeliamne]

I may just end up buying a copy of XP OEM after all, if what I've read comes to fruition (with regards to KOTOR being buggy). We'll see. If KOTOR does give me issues upon my first playing of the game, I'll hold tight until I get back to the states. I've got a very stable copy of Diablo II that I'm running right now which can pass the time until then. Appreciate the inputs folks! Thanks!

 

[EnialusMeliamne]

Grrr...I hate the internet sometimes...

 

[Brad Oliver]

I tried to run it on my 2007 low-end iMac, but it ran as fast (or should I say "as slow") as on my GMA950 MacBook, both Frame Buffer Effects and Soft Shadows options greyed out.

Yes, it will run poorly (as will most games) on a GMA 950. That card has no hardware vertex transformation, clipping or lighting which is a key optimization used by KOTOR. On all other Intel (and PowerPC) Macs, it should scream, with a notable exception.

That exception is any Mac with a Radeon HD 2xxx/3xxx/4xxx card. On ATI cards, KOTOR expects to find a certain extension for pixel shaders and uses that to optimize rendering. As it happens, ATI removed the extension KOTOR is looking for on their Radeon HD driver, so it falls back to a slow path. We'll be fixing this in a patch hopefully before Snow Leopard ships.

 

[Brad Oliver]

I have this game and playing with the latest patch (Universal beta), and it's buggy as hell. I am playing on an intel iMac with Ati Radeon HD 2600. It isn't any faster than on my previous Mac mini (PPC), but there are plenty of graphical artefacts especially in outdoor areas rendering the game unplayable at some points.

Yeah, the Radeon HD card issue is known and we're working on a fix for it. If you have an Intel Mac with an Nvidia card or a Radeon X1300/X1600, it should scream.

If I remember correctly, the guy in charge of making the patch quit at Aspyr just after the beta was released.

I re-joined Aspyr several months ago. We'll take care of the Radeon HD cards.

 

[Brad Oliver]

All,
I recently bought a copy of the Aspyr conversion of the Knights of the Old Republic. I'm awaiting delivery which could be about two weeks since I'm overseas for a bit. Two fold post: 1. Does/has anyone played this version on an early '08 Macbook Pro (15.4" display running 2.5GHz Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, 250GB hard drive, GeForce 8600 w/512MB)?

You will have no issues with Mac KOTOR on that chipset. Enjoy!

 

[eXan]

Yes, it will run poorly (as will most games) on a GMA 950. That card has no hardware vertex transformation, clipping or lighting which is a key optimization used by KOTOR. On all other Intel (and PowerPC) Macs, it should scream, with a notable exception.

That exception is any Mac with a Radeon HD 2xxx/3xxx/4xxx card. On ATI cards, KOTOR expects to find a certain extension for pixel shaders and uses that to optimize rendering. As it happens, ATI removed the extension KOTOR is looking for on their Radeon HD driver, so it falls back to a slow path. We'll be fixing this in a patch hopefully before Snow Leopard ships.

My iMac G5 with Radeon 9600 was running the game slower than MB with 950, but thats entirely blamed on the "slowlness" of the G5 compared to Core 2 Duo. But I was really surprised to see my new iMac with Radeon HD2400 to perform on the same level as the G5. Looks like its the graphics driver thats the culprit (as I suspected)

We'll be fixing this in a patch hopefully before Snow Leopard ships.

This is the best (computer-related) news I've heard in a while, thx

After KOTOR2 in Bootcamp I was looking forward to completing this game once more and this is almost perfect timing

I re-joined Aspyr several months ago.

Awesome!

 

[Brad Oliver]

My iMac G5 with Radeon 9600 was running the game slower than MB with 950, but thats entirely blamed on the "slowlness" of the G5 compared to Core 2 Duo. But I was really surprised to see my new iMac with Radeon HD2400 to perform on the same level as the G5. Looks like its the graphics driver thats the culprit (as I suspected)

Yes, although I hesitate to put the blame directly on the driver. KOTOR is an OpenGL app on both the PC and Mac sides. It's old enough that it predates the "modern" OpenGL vertex and fragment shader extensions on both PC and Mac, so it assumes that the fast path it wants is either ATI-specific or Nvidia-specifc, and that choice is keyed off the presence of these platform-specific vertex/fragment shader extensions. Specifically on ATI, it expects to find "ATI_text_fragment_shader" on the Mac, and falls back to a slow path when that's not present.

For the upcoming patch, I'll be rewriting the game to have a third "modern" rendering path that uses the standard OpenGL extensions, which may also help on the GMA X3100, but likely that card will remain unsupported.

I should also point out, lest anyone think we intentionally half-assed the UB patch, that the ATI Radeon HD 2xxx card was not available on Macs when we did the KOTOR UB patch, so we had no idea we'd get the shaft. Unfortunately, Apple released the first iMacs with that card only a few months after the KOTOR UB patch, coincidentally when I was working at Apple and couldn't fix it.

Anyway, enough regrets. It'll get patched again soon and we can put all this behind us.

 

[EnialusMeliamne]

Thanks for the information folks! Brad, that's the best news I've heard in weeks (entertainment wise at least ). VERY much looking forward to 6 Jun when the game arrives!

 

[neonblue2]

I was thinking about reinstalling KOTOR today but decided against it because the speed and stability problems. I might just have to reconsider now!

EDIT: I'll also have to give Jedi Academy another go. The last time I tried to play it, back last year, it was awful. If I'd known about it (your blog is now bookmarked and I'm stalking you on Twitter) I would have given it another crack.

 

[Brad Oliver]

EDIT: I'll also have to give Jedi Academy another go. The last time I tried to play it, back last year, it was awful.

What problem did you run into with Jedi Academy? You have an Intel GMA X3100 graphics chip (i.e. new-ish MacBook)?

 

[Miharu]

You are actually still working on updating this game? Kudos!

 

[Brad Oliver]

You are actually still working on updating this game? Kudos!

Why not? It's one of my favorites and it deserves a long life.

 

[aki]

thanks for the posts brad!! its very cool when someone who you know actually like knows something posts answers as compared to people like me hehehe

ps finished kotor2 under bootcamp a while back.... sooooo disappointing after kotor...... i wish they were making a kotor3 instead of that star wars multiplayer world thing

 

[eXan]

ps finished kotor2 under bootcamp a while back.... sooooo disappointing after kotor...... i wish they were making a kotor3 instead of that star wars multiplayer world thing

K2 wasn't that bad. If they actually finished the game, it would have been awesome. There are plenty of things I like in K2 compared to K1 (dialogs, combat, items, balance), but the story was more epic in K1 and planets were better IMO.

As for SWTOR, the new cinematic trailer is the best game trailer I've EVER seen http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/deceived-cinematic-trailer?sourceid=ea3719! Go and watch the HD version now! O_O

 

[txa1265]

K2 wasn't that bad. If they actually finished the game, it would have been awesome.

I agree - actually in my review for GamerDad I talked about it as 3 games - beginning, middle and end.

I say "The first 20 or so hours of KotOR 2 are some of the best gaming experiences I've ever seen. We have PlaneScape Torment levels of dialogue, plot weaving and intrigue, Baldur's Gate 2 levels of party interaction and banter, and action right out of KotOR."

As for the middle: "in the mid-game of KotOR 2, something happens - you start to notice small glitches, errors in the dialogue, repeated dialogues, and so on."

And the end ... "While playing the game, you get to a certain point where you realize that the "end game" has begun. It is not quite the "twist" of KotOR, but you will know instinctively that "stuff" is about to happen. Unfortunately, too much of that "stuff" feels sketchy and unfinished or at least under-explained. That continues right through the ending, where you will find yourself in pursuit of goals, and suddenly realize you aren't sure about what is going on, aren't satisfied with what has been told to you & generally feeling the ending was much weaker than the early part of the game would have you expect."

... still a good game, but leaves you feeling down because they set up for an amazing experience and badly fail to sustain it.

 

[Allard]

Bought Mac KoToR a while ago and it ran awesomely on my desktop. Sadly my discs are scratched so I can't play it anymore, let alone reinstall it on my MBP.

I wonder if it's illegal to upload game files in order to fix file corruption.

 

[Brad Oliver]

Bought Mac KoToR a while ago and it ran awesomely on my desktop. Sadly my discs are scratched so I can't play it anymore, let alone reinstall it on my MBP.

Contact Aspyr support and ask for a replacement DVD. That is definitely not illegal.

 

[aki]

K2 wasn't that bad. If they actually finished the game, it would have been awesome. There are plenty of things I like in K2 compared to K1 (dialogs, combat, items, balance), but the story was more epic in K1 and planets were better IMO.

yeah thats fair.... i had plenty of fun at the start with kotor2.....the ending was so flat though it just left me really depressed the plot built up a lot of issues around sort of white or black or neutral and to have a halfwritten ending which didnt let the pc play out the issues was really disappointing

... still a good game, but leaves you feeling down because they set up for an amazing experience and badly fail to sustain it.

yeah that

but like i said fair comment it started well

havent seen trailer yet but i have heard other people talk about it will look soon

still want my kotor3 though.....ill write the script if someone will code