Good info, the one time code I was referring to is the security code that is one time only per transaction. The token does indeed stay the same and is device related. I should have been more specific.
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Kohl’s Becomes First Retailer to Support Store Payments and Rewards With One Tap in Apple Pay
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In theory it should work. The way it's supposed to be set up is that you enable "automatic selection" on the rewards card. When you tap the POS terminal, the store's rewards card will be automatically selected first and transfer your loyalty account number, then Apple Pay automatically switches to the default payment card for the actual payment.
Given that in most countries Apple sells very few phones compared to Samsung, etc., it's one of two things:
- Google is more trustworthy.
- "Trust" isn't exactly that high on peoples' list of priorities.
Apple Pay is simply not a high priority for retailers or customers, at best. Even at smaller businesses (which ironically are more likely to have support enabled in the first place), training is basically nonexistent; I shouldn't have to train employees/business owners on how to use their own terminals, hence I consider them not to support it.
Which they're doing because people aren't flocking to contactless/mobile payment like they thought would happen. In fact, there's a threat of a mass exodus back to cash for small purchases because of how badly the chip rollout's going.
Every time I've product changed a card, the old card still worked until I got the new one in the mail. I'd be at least a bit concerned. Also, our cards stop working the instant they're reported lost/stolen and we're never liable for fraud anyway, so PIN isn't seen as a priority by banks either.
That wouldn't go over well. People are already assuming chip == RFID and freaking out, imagine what would happen if that were actually true. Also, if 50%+ of chip-enabled retailers aren't (ever?) going to support contactless/Apple Pay, it's kind of a waste of money for the banks to include that functionality even if Americans would be okay with the idea.
We frankly should be thankful that Apple managed to get some retailers to enable contactless. I think everyone would have been okay with never bothering otherwise.
SD->HD was a much easier sell because the improvement in picture quality was more obvious. 1080p->4K isn't nearly as much of an improvement unless you have a gigantic screen or sit really close to the TV (unlikely in most homes).
Apple Pay is kinda like that. We were never liable for fraudulent charges anyway, so the extra security isn't all that important. It's faster than chip, sure, but does it add all that much more value? I'm not sure it does.
Loyalty card support would help with the data collection part if that's what they want. People simply aren't using or demanding Apple Pay, even at the "official" retailers, so why bother?
Who do you think pays for the fraud in the event a card is stolen and used? If the card has a chip (which all of mine do), then the bank is out that money. I'm sure the bank would make a better financial decision to just require a pin instead.
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The rest of the world does it, so banks should put the technology in regardless of what stupid Americans have to say about it. Buy an RFID wallet if the cards make you uncomfortable. Americans need to stop looking like clowns compared to the rest of the world
Let's see... Tap my card, which takes one second, and then put it back in my wallet. Or put the card in the slot and then wait a few seconds for it to complete. You'd think merchants would want to enable NFC for contactless cards, especially fast food, restaurants, and grocery stores.
That's the point I'm trying to make though--the level of fraud committed in that fashion simply isn't high enough to make it worthwhile. (IIRC, it was something like 5% of all US credit card fraud based on something I read a while back.)
Not to say that there's no reason to implement it at all. I think we should on "travel" focused cards simply because of compatibility issues overseas.
My understanding is that South America really doesn't do it. I've also heard that it's not all that popular in Singapore either. Hardly "rest of the world".
Also, if it causes people to stop using their cards entirely (and thus causing banks to lose out on revenue), why should they implement it?
I wonder if Apple/Kohls have actually changed anything to allow both the card info and loyalty info to be transferred with one tap, or (as I'm guessing is more likely) if they just linked their loyalty program to their credit card program behind the scenes and with nothing to do specifically with ApplePay so that if you charge with your Kohls card it knows the loyalty points for the transaction should go to you as well. Since this seems to require the Kohls card and they haven't advertised that it works with a MC/Visa/Amex/Discover card, then I'm guessing there is no real magic here.
What I want is for my loyalty info to be automatically transferred when I ApplePay with whatever card I choose. Geolocation should tell my phone I'm in a Walgreens, Kohls, etc and if I have a loyalty card with that business it automatically sends that info along with my credit card token info.
What I want is for my loyalty info to be automatically transferred when I ApplePay with whatever card I choose. Geolocation should tell my phone I'm in a Walgreens, Kohls, etc and if I have a loyalty card with that business it automatically sends that info along with my credit card token info.
Just a few years ago, total fraud in the United States was $9 billion USD... What is 5% of that?
Many people don't even know they have it on their cards. I also don't know of any first world countries in South America. We shouldn't play by their rules... We should be like Canada, Australia, the UK, etc.
Great growth - now Apple needs to figure out how to monetize it!!!!!!
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American implementation of the chip is a complete disaster but, makes Apple pay shine!!!!
Yes, this! I can already use Apple Pay at Target because it has the NFC card reader but when I shop at Target I use my Red Card that's attached to my debit card. I don't want to have to continue pulling out the Red Card when I know the functionality already exists to use the watch, it's just frustrating that so many vendors aren't cooperating!
No, they can actually transfer both payment and loyalty info in one step on supported POS terminals. Other terminals (like the ones that Walgreens uses) support loyalty cards but require two separate steps.
When you enable "automatic selection" on a loyalty card, Apple Pay will automatically select that card in the store (but it's not based on geolocation, but on an identifier sent by the payment terminal AFAIK).
If they can get Petco's PAL rewards, Meijer's mperks, and BestBuy's rewards all implemented into ApplePay, that will cover about 90% of the places I shop, and just make ApplePay that much more useful for me.
Phone doesn't even require a double tap to activate. Just a fingerprint after the POS NFC wakes the phone up automatically.
Had to laugh at that. Made me picture Target as a 13 year old girl.
I don't think Target 'hates' Apple Pay. They just want to pursue an solution that helps them track their consumers study habits and mine them to be more profitable. It's not thing personal against apple or nefarious in general. It's just a business decision. While MCX was a poor idea from the jump, I totally understand why Target did it.
Lack of my pulse and my fingerprint means no one else will have the chance to make an "X". And I don't specifically use a Kohl's card (or any store branded card), I use cards from major banks and credit providers.
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In my case it's waving my watch so nothing for me to put down. It's a minor annoyance to me too but I'm not worked up about it. In due time the retailers will tailor their equipment and workflow too.
Now THAT is something I haven't seen yet (or tried because I didn't know that happened). Even better then.
$500 million. But if they, say, only gain $400 million or something from doing so (due to implementation costs, transactions that end up using cash instead due to forgotten PINs, etc.), that's not going to be nearly the best value for their money compared to going with chip in the first place.
And that doesn't take into account how bad PIN actually is from a security perspective. For instance, the 20 most often used PINs are on something like 25% of all cards. So the real gain from implementing it may be even less.
Speaking of that...
Australian merchants don't even ask for PIN under AU$30 with the chip (not sure the exact amount) and AU$100 with contactless. And at least one UK bank that I know of still allows card transactions to go through as chip and signature if one enters the wrong PIN enough times. That tells me that even the "first world" doesn't consider PIN nearly as sacrosanct as you think.
Page 7 of this PDF. tl;dr: iOS is the majority only in in the following:
- Ukraine
- France
- Denmark
- Australia
- Canada
- United Kingdom
- Japan
- South Africa
- Ireland
- Russia
- USA
- Belgium
- New Zealand
The implementation costs were going to be there anyways. The banks are giving out the chip cards, and now all they would have to do is program it to set PIN as the top priority. People can remember a four digit PIN number--we've done it for many years with our debit cards and at the ATM. Heck, even our smartphones used only the pin for a number of years, remember?
First, banks would need to support changing PIN on cards in a reliable fashion. Thanks to Visa's Quick Chip this isn't guaranteed to happen at the POS anymore thanks to EMV issuer script processing being skipped altogether, so this will likely have to be done through ATMs. This requires additional software and infrastructure work that they wouldn't have had to do otherwise.
They can skip storing the PIN on the cards themselves to avoid that problem but then there's another problem: merchant support for PIN would need to be guaranteed too. Considering that there are a lot of Square merchants out there, there's a huge merchant base that won't ever support PIN out of the gate. (A random iOS or Android device does not meet PCI requirements for PIN entry/handling, so Square and similar won't be able to ask for it without a new reader or accessory.) Smaller merchants are already having an incredibly hard time justifying EMV upgrades, so it might take the country even longer to migrate as said merchants delay further.
Banks would also need some sort of way to handle lost PINs in a secure manner. (It'll really suck if someone could easily socially engineer the CSR to let them reset one on a stolen card over the phone, for instance. Remember what happened when Apple Pay first came out?) They might end up having to implement it by sending out brand new cards to the address on file every time this happens.
Never said we had a hard time remembering four digit codes. However, I'd imagine we'd go to mandatory 6+ digit PINs or something in light of the link I posted above, and that plus the average of 3-4 cards per American might make things a bit more of a challenge.
(BTW, if you think of the whole chip thing as something that's only being done because the banking system literally had no choice anymore, a lot of the decisions make sense. I mean, most banks are still running software from 15-20+ years ago because they can't justify upgrading.)
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I think Starbucks might do it using the prepaid Visa card they announced earlier this year in partnership with Chase. The firmware in the stores that have EMV/Apple Pay is the standard Verifone one from what I can tell and isn't that tightly integrated with their POS, and I'd imagine Starbucks would like to keep it that way.
This is nonsense. First of all I haven't come across an "official" retailer that hasn't accepted Apple Pay. And I've asked about Apple Pay at every store I frequent, multiple times. Some have implemented, some haven't. You can't force retailers to adopt a method of payment, especially if they view it as a negative (in terms of lack of data collection). Many stores haven't even activated their chip readers...is there no demand for that, either?
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