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Korean Startups Call for Investigation into Apple and Google In-App Purchases

Wildkraut said:
If Apple think it’s not anticompetitive, they can search for a new own world, have their own countries and citizens there, with their own laws, and keep insulting, dictating and pursuing devs there. But as long they keep doing business here on the earth, they will have to follow the rules and laws countries set up, simple as that. I’m confident they will lose that fight badly.
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Sure . Just make the rules consiostant across the baord. Limit any app store to the same percentage; not just Apple and Google.

Of course, that means Apple and Google will need to find other sources of revenue, such as upping developer fees, charegs to review and host an app, etc. They could charge those upfront, which of course would make ut harder for small devs and those with free apps.

Allow other app stores? Sure, but you'll still need the app signed by Apple, for a fee; and a review and fee for each revision. Annually as well to be sure it hasn't changed.

Is 30% to high? Maybe, but, it's a lot less than what it used to be in the day of distributors and physical media, and make the barrier to entry for a new dev much lower. if it is lowered it doesn't necessarily mean devs will get more money with no changes in other fees. Small devs and those with free apps could get forced out of the market.
 
sw1tcher said:
A better analogy would be you're a software developer looking to distribute your app. But you can only distribute it on Microsoft's Windows app store or Apple's app store. You cannot set up your own site and distribute it there, and you cannot handle your own payments. Everything must go through Micorosoft's or Apple's payment system.

Guess what? We've been able to do exactly that (get apps from anywhere off the internet) with Windows and macOS for a long long time.

But somehow we're not allowed to do that on our iOS devices? Crazy.
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That's what happens on Windows 10 S.

It's in my policy to buy what I want and not buy what I don't want. I disagree with how Apple soldered RAM and SSDs on their laptops, so I don't buy them. It's ridiculously silly if I bought a Macbook and then rant about how I dislike the soldered RAM and SSD. If you dislike how iOS app store is run, skip the iPhone. It's not like the IAP policy is new. It's been there since the early days of the App store.
 
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jlc1978 said:
Sure . Just make the rules consiostant across the baord. Limit any app store to the same percentage; not just Apple and Google.
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I guess you don't understand how a free market works and why Apple/Google violate the rules of a free market. In a free market the prices for goods and services are self-regulated by market and consumers. Just add one more AppStore or several AppStores or several different payment methods and the 30% of Google/Apple are dust.

This is the point. Apple and Google control the price through an anticompetitive behaviour. As a side effect people like Trump or countries like China can take control over the AppStore.
 
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ian87w said:
That's what happens on Windows 10 S.

It's in my policy to buy what I want and not buy what I don't want. I disagree with how Apple soldered RAM and SSDs on their laptops, so I don't buy them. It's ridiculously silly if I bought a Macbook and then rant about how I dislike the soldered RAM and SSD. If you dislike how iOS app store is run, skip the iPhone. It's not like the IAP policy is new. It's been there since the early days of the App store.
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You can upgrade to Windows S to Windows Pro anytime for free of charge, bad example, sorry. Windows Pro allows you install as may Stores you want, as well signed and unsigned Apps.
 
AndiG said:
I guess you don't understand how a free market works and why Apple/Google violate the rules of a free market. In a free market the prices for goods and services are self-regulated by market and consumers. Just add one more AppStore or several AppStores or several different payment methods and the 30% of Google/Apple are dust.

This is the point. Apple and Google control the price through an anticompetitive behaviour. As a side effect people like Trump or countries like China can take control over the AppStore.
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Huh? How does Apple/Google "dictate" app prices? Do tell. 30% is a fee, commission. It exists in all types of businesses. Have you worked as a sales agent?
 
Wildkraut said:
You can upgrade to Windows S to Windows Pro anytime for free of charge, bad example, sorry. Windows Pro allows you install as may Stores you want, as well signed and unsigned Apps.
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Not the point. The fact is it existed, meaning that Microsoft has the intention to force their app store to Windows users. Microsoft LATER allowed the "free" upgrade AFTER huge blowback. Read it up.
 
Koudspeel said:
As much as I love Apple, I'm very glad that their monopolistic position gets investigated. Developers simply do not have a choice. Sure they can neglect the Apple App Store but that means they're missing out on a lot of sales.

Something has to be done.

In an ideal situation Apple should allow third party stores and services. They could make it so that these stores first have to comply to a set of rules and have their code checked.
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These developers want to use Apple’s/Google infrastructure without having to pay Apple/Google for the use of it. But there should be a balance in what is allowed to be debundled from the in app purchase structure( such as Netflix) or if you debundle it all, then all apps will be free with in app purchases and you have the situation in my first sentence where Apple/Google setup the infrastructure and the developers are using it for free. Apple/Google does deserve a share of the revenue for the infrastructure they setup.
 
Apple has this covered. Rules are rules. 30% is more than fair.

Let there be alternative app stores. Apple should charge tens of millions for the yearly fee for the certificates To these alternative app stores. Let’s see if they can live with 5%.
 
Anaxarxes said:
I support the investigations, too. But I am against the 3rd party app stores, period.

I choose Apple for their emphasis on privacy and keeping the Ecosystem clean and tidy for the best user experience. I understand that some feel differently and that's why there are other ecosystems/platforms to choose.
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I suppose you only use Safari as a web browser and Mail to check email, too? Only Apple Maps for getting directions? All on your Mac?
 
Everybody here in this forum is talking about free markets. That’s so hypocritical and ridiculous in the current political environment.
 
I7guy said:
Apple has this covered. Rules are rules. 30% is more than fair.

Let there be alternative app stores. Apple should charge tens of millions for the yearly fee for the certificates To these alternative app stores. Let’s see if they can live with 5%.
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I’ve got a rule that you can’t have direct deposit to your bank account anymore. You interacted with me so your pay has to be processed by me. I take a 30% cut, but it’s fine - I’m doing a ton of work for you. Trust me. Getting 70% of your pay is going to feel like a steal after you see how much value I’m delivering by processing your pay checks.

Rules are rules. If you didn’t want to follow them, you shouldn’t have posted where I could see.
 
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AndiG said:
I guess you don't understand how a free market works and why Apple/Google violate the rules of a free market. In a free market the prices for goods and services are self-regulated by market and consumers.
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A free market does not mean anyone has unfettered access to someone else's product, it means they can enter a market. The phone market is broader than Apple and Google, developers and consumers have choices and there are new entrants regularly. In the end consumers decide what is best for them, and companies price accordingly.

if anything, Apple is more egalitarian than brick and mortar since they let anyone sells that follows their rules, unlike stores that decide if they want to carry a product.

Just add one more AppStore or several AppStores or several different payment methods and the 30% of Google/Apple are dust.
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Maybe, but they would just change the fee structure for tools and reviews to compensate, if they want. Apple could still require apps to be certified and charge a fee fo rthat, and then let developers sell the app anywhere they want. They would essentially bring back the old distributer model; with upfront charges instead of a taking a markup on each sale

This is the point. Apple and Google control the price through an anticompetitive behaviour.
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The main question to determine if something is anti-competitive is "Is the consumer hurt?" In this case, I think the answer is no. They have choices in the phone market, and there is no indication prices are higher than they would be if Apple's cut is less. Even developers are better off because they have no upfront distribution costs and get a larger percentage of the sales price than before. I suspect many would be unhappy if Apple changed the fee structure to have lower markup but with higher upfront costs to get on the store, per download fees, fees for placement in searches, etc. They could forgo Apple but then would probably miss out on a large segment of the consumer base.
 
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ArtOfWarfare said:
I’ve got a rule that you can’t have direct deposit to your bank account anymore. You interacted with me so your pay has to be processed by me. I take a 30% cut, but it’s fine - I’m doing a ton of work for you. Trust me. Getting 70% of your pay is going to feel like a steal after you see how much value I’m delivering by processing your pay checks.

Rules are rules. If you didn’t want to follow them, you shouldn’t have posted where I could see.
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Except the banking system predated your "rule". Apple, who doesn't have a majority marketshare built and owns the entire platform.

A better analogy would be the fee at the ATMs to withdraw your own money.
 
HandITOVER said:
Let me provide some great example of why Apple app store is being indicted for violating antitrust law.

For instance, if you are selling a product at the shopping mall that supposedly able to use a third party payment transaction but the owner of shopping mall unveils some new policy that coerced you can only use one type of payment method that imposed 30% fees for every transaction.
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Just look at Google Playstore. There are so many alternatives store but everyone use back the Playstore except China maybe.
 
Born2Run said:
Get rid of IAP, stop Ads in games and just make everything 'old school' where you pay once and that's it.

I always turn on Airplane mode to stop ads and IAP requests popping up, I will usually delete the game straight away if it can't be used with Airplane mode turned on!

Apple make the rules for their store, software and hardware... if you don't like it, don't release it on iOS! Simple!
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I never even thought about airplane mode! Sheesh...such an obvious thing! 🤦‍♂️
 
spazzcat said:
I would never in a million years use some random in-app credit card service to buy something. These developers are dreaming if they think people will use anything other then Apple to pay for things in their apps.
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So you never buy anything outside the App Store with a credit card? Or you never buy a non digital good inside of an app? None of those things use Apple for payment.
 
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