Kuo: 2025 Apple Vision Pro to Get M5 Chip and Apple Intelligence

[lilkwarrior]

Sure they have.

Unlike a Homepod or a Studio Display, though, the AVP would benefit from third party support, meaning you would expect Apple wanting to create a platform, not a hardware product.
Apple thinks that developers will flock to the opportunity of selling products to a minuscule number of users and paying Apple 30% for the privilege - but that business model only makes sense when you have a big enough userbase to pay for all the overhead.

Because of that, comparisons with the Mac Pro or iPad Pro also don't quite work, since there's non-Pro Macs and iPads sharing the same ecosystem with their expensive counterparts - not to mention, developers not being forced into the App Store on Macs.


To be a little hyperbolic: unless Apple can make the AVP mainstream, it will be nothing but an expensive monitor to watch Disney or AppleTV on.

Apple doesn’t have to make non-Pro spatial computing hardware any time soon vs when it makes sense to them with their supply chain plans and overall business strategy.

It’s entitlement to think they have to do it any sooner than the CTO and major stakeholders who have actual operational decision-making power.

The mainstream header market is an unprofitable mess led by Meta losing billions charging unrealistic prices and a very neutered form of spatial computing AAA gamers are not behind.

Meta headsets are like the m the Wii and mobile game ports of console AAA games that’s alll about micro-transactions than the core gameplay of the franchise it’s a movie iteration of.

Quest headsets are incapable of running current gen games, doesn’t even have HDR to play VR and non-VR games on par with traditional consoles, and look worse than 4K TVs and monitors to bother using on par or more than such devices other than portable convenience.

 

[lilkwarrior]

It's cope. It's not selling at high volumes, so that's being spun into "it's fine, it was never supposed to be popular". Yet if it had sold at high volumes, the reaction would be "see, spatial computing is the future!" No matter what the outcome, it's seen as a win. That's not an honest assessment of a product.

"Pro" in the name doesn’t mean much. The "Pro" iPhones are not enterprise devices unintended for the mainstream. The fact that half the WWDC presentations about AVP have been focused on spatial photos and videos and showed people using it in their living rooms doesn't exactly scream "not for the mainstream". (The Mac Pro is the only Apple device almost entirely marketed at professionals, though the Studio's marketing is mostly professional-focused as well, and even the Mini has its enterprise uses in servers).

The Vision Pro is expensive because if it were cheaper, it would not have met Apple's quality standards for such a device. I expect the price will come down and other devices in the line will be released, but Apple's own marketing (both at launch and at this year's WWDC) indicates that the current Vision Pro was not intended primarily to be an enterprise device, even if that is how it is being used.

The Vision Pro has the same core traits as Apple’s other prosumer headsets the non-Pro hardware still don’t have consistently:

-- Dolby Vision HDR + HLG HDR with 1600+ peak nits

-MDM support

- Lossless audio

Vision Peo absolutely has enterprise profile support just like all of Apple’s prosumer products.

It’s already used in commercial, industrial, retail, and museum sectors as well.

Apple Vision Pro fits the traditional traits of a prosumer devices doing various things at professional quality no consumer headset is currently capable of in addition to previous prosumer headset—including the Quest Pro that failed to meet baseline needs of prosumers of traditional computers the Vision Pro explicitly actually does with best in class integration with Apple’s existing prosumer hardware ecosystem

 

[wigby]

So they've released the first version and charged consumers £3500-£4000, barely released any content for it, and theres now rumours a second version is coming out with updated hardware already?? Sorry what? Talk about hanging their customers out to dry.

First gen tech is expensive and quickly replaced with better, cheaper, faster, etc. Customers know the deal.

 

[HDFan]

it will be nothing but an expensive monitor to watch Disney or AppleTV on.

Those are just a small subset of ways it can be used. There apps in many areas - education, art, travel, games, meditation, music, social, sports - just to name a few.

 

[blocsapp]

I don’t think a headset device will ever be a mainstream product but there is room to make a cheaper option to expand the market further. Once the problem of making a device competitive on price is solved, you then have the issue of it being a wearable and quite an intrusive one at that. When we look at a less intrusive wearable like an Apple Watch where many iPhone users still don’t use them because they don’t like wearing watches, you apply that mentality to wearing something on your face and you have a segment of consumers that aren’t comfortable with that concept. For me I think it’ll always be a niche sector but one that has room to grow further.

Imagine someone in 1990 saying: “I don’t think people will ever buy things over the internet”.

Sounds logical in 1990 and narrow minded in 2024.

A lot of people wear sunglasses right.

One day a device that resembles a pair of sunglasses will replace your phone and tablet. It’ll be a device you wear on your head, so a headset of sorts, but fairly inconspicuous.

It’s just going to take 10/20 years to be that good.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Imagine someone in 1990 saying: “I don’t think people will ever buy things over the internet”.

Sounds logical in 1990 and narrow minded in 2024.

A lot of people wear sunglasses right.

One day a device that resembles a pair of sunglasses will replace your phone and tablet. It’ll be a device you wear on your head, so a headset of sorts, but fairly inconspicuous.

It’s just going to take 10/20 years to be that good.

I’m well aware of how it works being a product designer thanks.

 

[blocsapp]

I’m well aware of how it works being a product designer thanks.

No offence intended. I just find the “will never be mainstream” short sighted.

 

[VisceralRealist]

One day a device that resembles a pair of sunglasses will replace your phone and tablet. It’ll be a device you wear on your head, so a headset of sorts, but fairly inconspicuous.

It’s just going to take 10/20 years to be that good.

I don’t think it will.

But the beauty of this claim is it will take 10-20 years to be proven or disproven. I guess I will have to get back to you then.

 

[Jdhommert]

To all the people saying all the problems with the AVP and why it won't succeed (price, weight, battery....) are all true but the MOST important thing to the success of the AVP is support from devs/companies. This thing has unlimited potential on how awesome it can be. This is everything I've wanted as a tech nerd. They have to keep expanding on this and give people the desire to buy the thing. If it doesnt keep growing on what its capabilities are on real world things people will use it for, nothing will make this thing fail quicker.

 

[bgillander]

Very true, although I think the wider market are a bit more tech aware these days and know what they expect, rather than be told what they should expect. Then again with Vision Pro, I don't think Apple aimed it as mainstream consumers.

Sorry, I missed this earlier. The wider market at that time was pretty much just wanting their MTV.

Honestly, I would say that there was no wider market in 1983 for computers, as it was pretty much just techies and businesses buying computers at the time, so, at least relatively, the market was probably actually more tech aware at that time, it just wasn't wide. Of course, we didn't have the internet, so getting that information was much harder and we weren't as tech aware as we tried to be or would have liked. And knowing what you expected from a computer wasn't really a thing then, as first seeing a GUI was pretty revolutionary. There is a reason I think "early adopter" is misunderstood by a lot of people these days, as they haven't really even seen it before.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

No offence intended. I just find the “will never be mainstream” short sighted.

I think it’s fine to make an educated prediction based on our own assumptions. Headset computing has been around since the early 90’s and it’s always attracted a smaller segment of early adopters and inquisitive consumers. The thought our tablets and phones will be replaced by an immersive pair of inconspicuous glasses is rather depressing, and I don’t believe everybody will want that. We’ll see in 20 years and continue this then.

 

[blocsapp]

I think it’s fine to make an educated prediction based on our own assumptions. Headset computing has been around since the early 90’s and it’s always attracted a smaller segment of early adopters and inquisitive consumers. The thought our tablets and phones will be replaced by an immersive pair of inconspicuous glasses is rather depressing, and I don’t believe everybody will want that. We’ll see in 20 years and continue this then.

Some would argue, with the introduction of tablets and phones it’s already depressing and many are in their own little worlds.

Hopefully these new AR devices will not be as addictive as a mobile phone.

 

[blocsapp]

I don’t think it will.

But the beauty of this claim is it will take 10-20 years to be proven or disproven. I guess I will have to get back to you then.

Hopefully less 😅

 

[bgillander]

I don’t think it will.

But the beauty of this claim is it will take 10-20 years to be proven or disproven. I guess I will have to get back to you then.

Well, technically, it will take 20 years to be disproven. If it is proven, only the worst case would be 20 years.

Since quite a few people seem to absolutely hate glasses, I'm not sure it would be completely mainstream even if they do get it down to a sunglass equivalent, but the Meta Orion preview does make it seem like reaching that form factor is quite likely possible within the next 10 years. I assume that once they progress past the Velma "Jinkies!" vibe that the current prototype gives me, they could probably catch on with a fairly large audience if they can get the tech costs down and price it below $1000.

Given the current state of the technology and the direction headed, whether they can reduce the cost of materials is probably the bigger question than whether they can shrink the technology itself, but if they are using technology that they can mass produce, the costs should drop a lot. The SiC diffraction-type waveguide LEDoS display tech sounds like it would be the big question for cost, though. From what I can find, it sounds like it is used for military radar and sensors, so it doesn't have a huge other demand that would drop the production price, so much of the mass production startup costs sound like they would be weighing on this product.

 

[binaryfuneral]

Apple: "We took this restrictively priced item and made an iterative change."

The market: "You haven't been listening, have you?"

 

[TAJones99]

That price is going up

 

[HDFan]

The thought our tablets and phones will be replaced by an immersive pair of inconspicuous glasses is rather depressing,

Why?

 

[vantelimus]

Apple: "We took this restrictively priced item and made an iterative change."

The market: "You haven't been listening, have you?"

You don’t understand the target market.

 

[vantelimus]

Since quite a few people seem to absolutely hate glasses, I'm not sure it would be completely mainstream even if they do get it down to a sunglass equivalent…

I never liked wearing watches. I wear an Apple Watch because it provides so much more function that is useful to me that any traditional watch ever did.

All a company has to do is to have the right price point and enough function in a pair of glasses to overcome most people’s dislike of wearing glasses. Once the right price/function mix is there, social influencers will make them cool.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Why?

Because we are already spending too much time on devices on the whole and cutting ourselves off further with people immersed fully and discreetly in their devices is a depressing concept. This is why I think this type of product is more in line with the niche rather than a full replacement for more inclusive experiences.

 

[HDFan]

Because we are already spending too much time on devices on the whole and cutting ourselves off further with people immersed fully and discreetly in their devices

Maybe true for most people but there are also many people who like being cut off.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Maybe true for most people but there are also many people who like being cut off.

Absolutely, hence why Vision Pro was created for the niche who want that immersive experience. For it to be applied to everyone and replace an iPhone and iPad, I think that would be wrong, especially as you acknowledge most people probably don’t need to be fully immersed into a device.

 

[blocsapp]

Because we are already spending too much time on devices on the whole and cutting ourselves off further with people immersed fully and discreetly in their devices is a depressing concept. This is why I think this type of product is more in line with the niche rather than a full replacement for more inclusive experience

Absolutely, hence why Vision Pro was created for the niche who want that immersive experience. For it to be applied to everyone and replace an iPhone and iPad, I think that would be wrong, especially as you acknowledge most people probably don’t need to be fully immersed into a device.

It comes across more like you don’t want it to become mainstream, which I totally understand. But it’s gen z & alpha who will decide if it’s mainstream, over the next few decades.

Personally I think it’s inevitable. The tech will get smaller and cheaper and be too tempting for most people to resist

This isn’t limited to Apple Vision Pro. We are talking about the next form factor for the personal computer here.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

It comes across more like you don’t want it to become mainstream, which I totally understand. But it’s gen z & alpha who will decide if it’s mainstream, over the next few decades.

Personally I think it’s inevitable. The tech will get smaller and cheaper and be too tempting for most people to resist

This isn’t limited to Apple Vision Pro. We are talking about the next form factor for the personal computer here.

It’s not that I don’t want it to be mainstream, it’s that I don’t think it will be. We are 30 years in now and it’s being talked about like AR and VR are just starting. Getting people to wear devices is always difficult, and even more so when it requires them to put them on their face. Most iPhone users don’t wear Apple Watches for example but a hell of a lot do, therefore it has its selective market and to a lesser degree I think the same will be the case with Apple Vision/Vision Pro.

 

[blocsapp]

It’s not that I don’t want it to be mainstream, it’s that I don’t think it will be. We are 30 years in now and it’s being talked about like AR and VR are just starting. Getting people to wear devices is always difficult, and even more so when it requires them to put them on their face. Most iPhone users don’t wear Apple Watches for example but a hell of a lot do, therefore it has its selective market and to a lesser degree I think the same will be the case with Apple Vision/Vision Pro.

Consider the first mobile phone came out in the 70s, it took 30+ years to get an iPhone.

Now compare 1st gen iPhone to the iPhone 16 pro 😎

I think these new spatial computers are different as they have huge potential to replace the phone not enhance it like a watch would.

But obviously not in the current form.