Kuo: Apple No Longer Planning to Launch iPhone SE 4 Next Year

[ksec]

LOL.......I suggested way back Apple would test their Modem first in SE. But the replies on Macumors were... It doesn't make sense. Anyone wants to revisit the Modem rumours and comments on Macrumours since 2019?

Apple can move mountains, they have the best SoC ( You may soon learn the gap isn't as widely as many think it is )

Apple can make better modem than Qualcomm, Qualcomm is a patent troll.

Apple doesn't need to pay a single cent to Qualcomm if they make their modem.

Apple will have the best in class Modem by 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023... 2024.... what now 2025?

Apple will make Integrated Modem so to save battery.

And more recently, even Qualcomm announced Apple wont be using their Modem by 2023. ( Hint: No they didn't )

 

[ksec]

The profit margins on the flagship iPhones (14, Pro, etc) are about 100%.

The iPhone 14 and 14 Pro models cost $400-500 to make and sell for $800 and $1,000, respectively.

That is mark up. Not profit margin.

Yes the figure is about right if it was BOM plus all the patent usage and OS services cost which Apple listed in their Annual Report.

Cost of Smartphone isn't so much a secret any more. Given how well establish the Smartphone supply chain it is now, especially if it is based in China. It is much harder to put on proper number on something like the Sony Flagship Smartphone, which is "Made in Japan."

 

[one more]

The phone is way too big; I think part of the appeal of the SE has been that it’s a smaller phone that appeals to those with smaller hands and older folk not caring to have an entertainment powerhouse in their phone.

The OP was describing his situation as below, so for them iPhone 11 could work quite well, IMO:

“It would be nice if the SE had a bigger screen. My mom basically wants an iPhone to be a dumb phone as she gets older so the new SE would be perfect, except she's so used to a bigger screen that the iPhone 6 style screen is too small.”

 

[Count Blah]

Yes, grannies and younger kids don’t matter, I agree. They don’t need an iPhone and if they’re getting one they can use the somewhat larger SE. granny will be dead soon and children do not matter WHATSOEVER until they turn 18. They are a detriment on society until then.

I like how you take the “let them eat cake” approach to a marginally smaller premium smartphone. Tell me more about your first world problems and what a hard life you have.

If kids didn't matter, they wouldn't have kept the iPod Touch going as long as they did. Sounds like if you were running things, ONLY the highest margin products would be produced/sold, while turning your back on a good portion of the market. Luckily, that's NOT the approach Apple has taken.

They realize that they need to maintain a good % of overall users in the mobile space, WHILE focusing on high margins. The pretty much necessitates having a mid range phone, otherwise you end up being the Apple of the 90s, marginalized player with dwindling user base and developer base.

Finally, it looks like you have some unresolved issues somewhere, so I'll leave you to those and not get involved.

 

[city_17]

They should just reduce the cost of the normal iPhones first before creating another SE

Because that's what companies do whenever they raise prices multiple times but people still keep buying their products.

 

[I7guy]

Can you confidently say that the original source of the info, Nikkei Asia, is wrong? I’d say it’s at least in the realm of plausibility that iPhone manufacturing costs could be around $400-500.

I’m fairly confident they don’t know how much Apple pays Foxconn, how much r&d went into the iphone 14, how much shipping and distribution is etc. Unless they can provide a breakdown of the costs associated with getting an iphone from the drawing board into consumers hand, I think they are far off base.

 

[JAQ]

I hope my SE 3 lasts a long time, because I'm not going to buy one of those damn oversized tablets without a home button and Touch ID.

 

[rembert]

RIP iPhone Mini
RIP iPhone SE

I always thought people loved the iPhone SE models due to the cheaper costs.

They do, they do. But they also tend to use their iPhones longer than people who just go for the newest and biggest fashion iPhones. I'd love to have an iPhone Micro, sized like the 4S or the SE-1 without a home button. But I'm being forced to go for some bigger phone. About to order the 13-mini now.

 

[AngelYaDig]

Folks claiming we all want “big” or “huge” phones only are dead wrong, sorry to have to tell you.

Sales numbers for the iPhone mini determined that is a lie.

 

[majkom]

Sales numbers for the iPhone mini determined that is a lie.

Have you seen those numbers?

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Can you confidently say that the original source of the info, Nikkei Asia, is wrong? I’d say it’s at least in the realm of plausibility that iPhone manufacturing costs could be around $400-500.

The $400-$500 estimates are the prices of the raw parts.
Meaning that for $500 if you had the resources, you could get all those components and build yourself a phone.
It doesn’t include things like assembly costs, software development andmaintenance costs, marketing costs, labor costs, mass shipping costs, etc.

 

[mkoesel]

For 2024, I think they have 3 credible options:

They could also choose to retire the 3rd generation SE with no immediate replacement like they did with the original SE in 2018.

It feels like Apple is going to reorganize the iPhone lineup from top to bottom in the relatively near future. An iPhone Ultra may be coming to replace the Pro Max. An “iPhone Air“ (perhaps by another name) may be coming to replace today’s “iPhone”. An iPhone Mini could yet find a permanent place in the lineup. And maybe the SE name gets dropped and replaced simply by “iPhone”.

With the new lineup could come new price points and less frequent biannual / tri-annual spec bumps or updates for some of the lower end devices. Whether the $429 price point occupied by the SE survives this possible future seems uncertain.

For my part I’m happy to pay $599 for an iPhone Mini every two or three years from now into perpetuity (or at least until folding / rolling screen tech becomes commodity in all phones). Same purchasing pattern I‘ve followed for years with the iPad Mini.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

So the first USB-C iPhone SE will have to based on the iPhone 15 (non-Pro model).

No.
Apple can re-use any design that they want and just switch the lightning port out for a USB-C port.
They can keep selling the current third generation based off of the iPhone 8 design, and just switch out the Lightning port for a USB-C one.
It’s not that much different of a port design that it requires an entire new body.

 

[Mega ST]

400 to 500 bugs just for the raw parts? If you build millions of similar phones the parts and manufacturing should not be that expensive? They have the chips, IOS, the marketing machinery and the SE is made to be low-cost reutilising last year's parts and technology with only minor changes. Fancy cameras are not included in the SE.

Maybe the connectors upgrade has to start with the prime line for marketing reasons or they feel it is too costly to upgrade older models and want to wait for their next USB-C models to become available for SE-conversion after some time?

 

[mkoesel]

They can keep selling the current third generation based off of the iPhone 8 design, and just switch out the Lightning port for a USB-C one.

For existing products, they don’t even need to. The mandate covers newly released devices only. Also it doesn’t go into effect until late 2024, and I think there is even a grace period window into 2025 (don’t quote me on that).

Now if they were to update the device’s specs after the mandate takes effect, and it needs to be re-certified, then yes, they’d need to switch to USB-C. But any changes prior to that would not require a port change.

Of course there is also the practical matter and the optics of releasing any new deceive from here forward with a legacy port. From that perspective, it appears that, assuming the iPhone 15 moves to USB-C this year rumored, we have likely already seen the final Lightning port from Apple.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I actually think the SE was a going to be a problem because the phones have advanced beyond what an SE price point can support. There are multiple cameras, better screen technologies, wireless charging, etc.

None of those three things need necessarily be on an SE model though

One great camera, normal LCD tech and ditch the wireless charging (for SE)

 

[subjonas]

There's a lot that want TouchID, so having only Face will kill those sales. At least start putting Touch in Power into the new model if you scrap SE

Don’t know about others, but yeah I don’t want Face ID. I just had to replace my phone with an SE3 because I wanted Touch ID. Would have rather bought a 13 Mini if it had Touch ID in the power button. It’s really not about price for me. I just really want Touch ID in a small as possible iPhone.

 

[Jankie]

Don’t know about others, but yeah I don’t want Face ID. I just had to replace my phone with an SE3 because I wanted Touch ID. Would have rather bought a 13 Mini if it had Touch ID in the power button. It’s really not about price for me. I just really want Touch ID in a small as possible iPhone.

Don’t know about others, but yeah I don’t want Face ID. I just had to replace my phone with an SE3 because I wanted Touch ID. Would have rather bought a 13 Mini if it had Touch ID in the power button. It’s really not about price for me. I just really want Touch ID in a small as possible iPhone.

I think Touch ID is also vital for some of their older customers. The home button is quite intuitive, the newer UI not so much for those over 65yo. Transitioning older individuals to the new paradigm would be extremely difficult if not impossible. (Speaking from experience with parents and grandparents).

However, maybe Apple thinks they have saturated this market and, as a result, new device sales will not come from this demographic so it is time to move on 🤷‍♂️

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

What makes you presume the current SE won't just continue unchanged for the time being?

Apple infamously loves to kick older flagship models and lets low-end devices stick around to highlight how advanced the latest flagships are.

Since iPhone SE 2022 is so (comparatively) underpowered and lacks so many high-end features, it's more likely to stay around for multiple lineups over more expensive models, like the mid-tier and Pro flagships.

I'd expect iPhones 12 and 13 to leave the lineups before iPhone SE 2022.

 

[Jankie]

Apple infamously loves to kick older flagship models and lets low-end devices stick around to highlight how advanced the latest flagships are.

Since iPhone SE 2022 is so (comparatively) underpowered and lacks so many high-end features, it's more likely to stay around for multiple lineups over more expensive models, like the mid-tier and Pro flagships.

I'd expect iPhones 12 and 13 to leave the lineups before iPhone SE 2022.

I agree with your overall premise. However, in addition to the ProMotion and improved cameras, what other features do you think are significantly advanced over the SE 2022? Not being argumentative, but interested in your response.

For me, I have not found the OLED upgrade or the speed of the processor to make a significant difference and I prefer smaller devices. I guess one could argue that the newer devices have significantly improved battery life, but this is only true for the larger devices and could be accomplished with a larger SE form factor (not an advancement).

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

I agree with your overall premise. However, in addition to the ProMotion and improved cameras, what other features do you think are significantly advanced over the SE 2022? Not being argumentative, but interested in your response.

For me, I have not found the OLED upgrade or the speed of the processor to make a significant difference and I prefer smaller devices. I guess one could argue that the newer devices have significantly improved battery life, but this is only true for the larger devices and could be accomplished with a larger SE form factor (not an advancement).

I do agree and would personally prefer a smaller iPhone with great battery life but with the three-camera array of the Pros.

Not being able to fit my iPhone in all of my jackets, pockets, bags, etc., and often having to consider what I wear and how I move, sit, stand, etc., to avoid having the 200 gram-ish device fall out and hit the pavement is not ideal for me.

I also don't need OLED or ProMotion. But if it makes for less battery drain then I do prefer it.

But that's my subjective opinion.

However, not considering opinion and just looking at objective total value/$ for the various parts that make up an iPhone, the SE 2022 or 2020 is a bad deal considering how much more you get for your money buying an iPhone 11, 12, 13 or 14 on some or all specs.

Obviously, if you don't need anything more than the core iPhone experience and the latest SoC, then spending more than $429 for an SE 2022 is not for you.

But I still can't get past that the SE 2022 doesn't start with 128GB for the $429 basemodel and still can't do the great Night Mode photography that you can get in the, now, <$499 iPhone 11 that launched in 2019.

SE 2022 is just too low value despite how fast the A15 is.

 

[Mega ST]

I don't agree. Just Touch ID does it for me.

 

[SAIRUS]

Give me an iPhone 4 with a Touch ID and maybe a decent camera.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I think Touch ID is also vital for some of their older customers. The home button is quite intuitive, the newer UI not so much for those over 65yo. Transitioning older individuals to the new paradigm would be extremely difficult if not impossible. (Speaking from experience with parents and grandparents).

However, maybe Apple thinks they have saturated this market and, as a result, new device sales will not come from this demographic so it is time to move on 🤷‍♂️

Thank you SO much for saying this

I have 5 different older relatives (all over 70) that absolutely have to have Touch ID / Home button phones

Swipes are totally confusing to them, and for 2 of them basically impossible with their hands that have some shake/tremor.

For all noise Apple makes about accessibility, it'd be really nice to see them remain committed to some Home button iPhones. The simplicity of the "save me .. just click to go home" one main button was brilliant and it still is.

So many folks can't do (or don't want to) the hand and finger gymnastics to simply interact with their device.

 

[minimo3]

Let me summarize this 11 page thread so far:

Some folks: I’d love to have a smaller/LCD/TouchID device

Other folks: No, you’re wrong to have your preferences, you must agree to purchase what I like because I am right and speak for “everybody”