Kuo: Apple to Launch 'iPhone SE 2' in Early 2020 With Similar Design as iPhone 8, A13 Chip, and 3GB RAM

[Michael Scrip]

Why do people keep saying that the market has chosen bigger phones? The SE has sold out every time it’s been available.

People like big phones enough to buy them, but the market hasn’t had the conversation of big vs. small. If Apple put out a new flagship in SE size, but it bombed compared to the big one, then I would rest my case.

There are 1.5 billion smartphones sold every year. But the percentage of <4" phones sold is extremely small.

That's why people keep saying the market has chosen bigger phones.

When Apple showed interest in <4" phones people seemed to like them. The SE supposedly sold great. But we still don't know the exact percentage of SE versus the other iPhone models. Did Apple sell one SE for every ten other iPhone models? Or every twenty other iPhones? Who knows.

The point is... the SE alone was not enough to meaningfully move the market towards smaller phones.

If other companies made great <4" phones then we would know for sure.

It's a chicken-n-egg scenario: are people not buying small phones because companies aren't making them? Or are companies not making them because people aren't buying them?

It reminds me of hardware keyboards on phones. A long time ago ALL smartphones had keyboards. But a new generation of all-glass smartphones emerged.

When given the choice... people overwhelmingly chose these glass slabs instead of QWERTY smartphones. And eventually companies stopped offering hardware keyboards altogether.

I think we're seeing the same thing in regards to screen size. These companies go where the people are.

It's the same sorta thing with other products too. How many people loved the 17" Macbook Pro? If you listen to the forums it sounded like it was Apple's #1 laptop.

But it clearly wasn't.

And same for the 11" MBA and 12" MB. Both gone.

I'm afraid the SE might join them.

 

[bklement]

I hate to admit it, but that article is right. Small phones made sense when Apple’s focus was music, but now it’s also gaming, Apple News+ and Apple TV+, a new 4 inch phone doesn’t make strategic sense for them - the 4.7 is probably a bare minimum as these services will be held back trying to have to support them on a 4 inch screen.

I read much more on my SE than I did previously on my 5.2 and 5.5 inch androids. I don't give a **** about mobile gaming, and for tv I have an Apple TV and an ipad. And I have those because I wanted to go small, and my only option was buying my first iphone. A significant number of SE users are first timers, and we would not miss a heartbeat going back to Android, and abandoning Apple's services entirely.

 

[decisions]

I read much more on my SE than I did previously on my 5.2 and 5.5 inch androids. I don't give a **** about mobile gaming, and for tv I have an Apple TV and an ipad. And I have those because I wanted to go small, and my only option was buying my first iphone. A significant number of SE users are first timers, and we would not miss a heartbeat going back to Android, and abandoning Apple's services entirely.

Considering this is probably the last year of SE support, I went to Best Buy today and I gotta be honest the Samsung S10e felt much better in my hand than the 11 Pro (the s10e is a bit thinner). Compare the notch to the camera hole and it's safe to say Jobs would be furious.

While I would probably purchase it over the 11 Pro, it's still bigger than I would like, and I mean I'd like to stick to iOS but am becoming more willing to give Android a shot by the day. Guess I'll just have to see what ends up happening with Apple phones in 2020.

 

[bluecoast]

To your point, the successor to the 11 will have an OLED 6.1” screen, so the 5.8” model becomes a bit redundant without the OLED vs. LCD advantage.

iPad is $329, iPad Pro is $799 (or two iPads and almost enough left over for AirPods). That’s why the iPad Air exists.

Sure I get it it’s just odd to have the iPad (with larger amounts of storage) bumping up against the iPad Air, but then again, I guess that describes the entire iPhone line...
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Did you read the article?? The dude who wrote it admitted to having to use his nose sometimes because his fingers can’t reach, for Pete’s sake. And watching a trilogy on a 5.8” phone?? No thanks.

I did. XR owner here because I’m getting long sighted. Love the screen though trying to use it with one hand is ridiculous most of the time.

 

[bluecoast]

I read much more on my SE than I did previously on my 5.2 and 5.5 inch androids. I don't give a **** about mobile gaming, and for tv I have an Apple TV and an ipad. And I have those because I wanted to go small, and my only option was buying my first iphone. A significant number of SE users are first timers, and we would not miss a heartbeat going back to Android, and abandoning Apple's services entirely.

Sure, I get you. It’s really frustrating when Apple paid so much attention to the ergonomics of the iPhone for the first 7 years of its life and then abandoned then for increasingly larger phones.

Sadly, I guess it’s what the market wanted - not enough people bought iPads and used them with their smaller phones etc and instead used them as their primary computing devices.

In another post here I’ve said that I recently found my 4s - it really is a stunning device. Weird to think that in 2010-11 we were all pretty happy with that size of phone...

 

[PickUrPoison]

<snip>
Hmm... I'd have to see, hold, etc. one. I'm assuming you mean not much wider, but taller? I also really love the actual shape of the SE (more square sides instead of the pill shape, etc.). While everyone loves a deal, I'd rather have whatever it is be a full-featured phone than a 'budget' model with too many features removed. If it is in that price-range, so be it.

Though larger than the SE, a 5.42” iPhone 12 Pro would be smaller than the iPhone 6/7/8 form factor in both height and width.

I did the calcs when the rumor first hit; I can’t recall exactly but it was something like 1-2mm less in width and 4-5mm less in height (made possible by drastically reducing the large top/bottom bezels of the 6/7/8). Thicker though, no doubt. But for those who really want an SE-sized iPhone, it will likely be too large for them.

 

[rwh63]

It better have a headphone jack, that's all I have to say!

 

[EssModelsRule]

Though larger than the SE, a 5.42” iPhone 12 Pro would be smaller than the iPhone 6/7/8 form factor in both height and width.

I did the calcs when the rumor first hit; I can’t recall exactly but it was something like 1-2mm less in width and 4-5mm less in height (made possible by drastically reducing the large top/bottom bezels of the 6/7/8). Thicker though, no doubt. But for those who really want an SE-sized iPhone, it will likely be too large for them.

Maybe we’ll see a slight reduction in bezel thickness which, in combination with flat sides, could further shave some size off the overall device. Agreed though, still not SE-sized. I’m really looking forward to seeing what they come up with for the 5.4” model.

 

[PickUrPoison]

It better have a headphone jack, that's all I have to say!

I wouldn’t bet on it. But maybe, who knows.

 

[Ladybug]

You know what’s worse than seeing people wanting Apple to produce another SE iPhone..having rude people not even interested in an SE invade an SE thread only to make snide comments. If you don’t want an SE and don’t want to see these comments then this isn’t the thread for you. Everyone has the right to want what they want in a phone and it really doesn’t effect what you choose for yourself. Live and let live.

 

[JustForward]

why would someone feel the need to be mad that apple choose to make another SE? if they don't like it they can simply not buy it. its not like they would get rid of the other phones.

Haters are jealous when  produced a really good product.

 

[JustForward]

If they leave the current SE form-factor, then it is a fail. It's that simple.

The SE form factor is a huge success.

 

[bluecoast]

If we all step back and think, it’s a bit weird that we all have to beg Apple to make its product ergonomic and fit in one hand ... like they used to!

One other point though - and slightly off topic - Apple could alleviate much of its issues (not all) with ergonomics by making the navigation buttons and toolbars on iOS apps appear on the bottom of the screen.

Conspiracy theory: maybe they are planning to do exactly that but on iOS 14 which will support 4.7 inch phones and upwards only...

 

[TerryClarke1987]

If we all step back and think, it’s a bit weird that we all have to beg Apple to make its product ergonomic and fit in one hand ... like they used to!

One other point though - and slightly off topic - Apple could alleviate much of its issues (not all) with ergonomics by making the navigation buttons and toolbars on iOS apps appear on the bottom of the screen.

Conspiracy theory: maybe they are planning to do exactly that but on iOS 14 which will support 4.7 inch phones and upwards only...

I think that small phones don't fit their " consume our content" strategy. I mean, you will probably consume much less content (and Apple services) on SE form factor than on bigger screens.

 

[mag33]

I'm day 1 for this. I can deal with a 4.7 inch screen, it's about the perfect size, and with newest & fastest internals at $400, sounds like a steal! Even at $450-499, it'd be a steal. I don't care about the new features like Face ID so this seems like the way to go. I just need wireless charging.

 

[JustForward]

I think that small phones don't fit their " consume our content" strategy. I mean, you will probably consume much less content (and Apple services) on SE form factor than on bigger screens.

The SE form factor isn't small if redesigning with all-screen.
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I'm day 1 for this. I can deal with a 4.7 inch screen, it's about the perfect size, and with newest & fastest internals at $400, sounds like a steal! Even at $450-499, it'd be a steal. I don't care about the new features like Face ID so this seems like the way to go. I just need wireless charging.

They are many people like you wouldn't mind a 4.7” screen on a SE form factor without being as big as an iPhone 8...it really seems that the demand is real.

 

[mag33]

They are many people like you wouldn't mind a 4.7” screen on a SE form factor without being as big as an iPhone 8...it really seems that the demand is real.

In a perfect world it's what I would also wish for. But at the same time I'm like whatever because I don't mind the bezels. For some it may seem like an outdated design but I think it's a timeless design tbh.

 

[dewski]

And not enough people want something the size of the SE, Or it would exist. I don’t doubt some people want it, but not enough want it and/or those people will buy another iPhone. Apple looks at this very closely and has far better information that us.

If it doesn’t exist, the answer must be because it doesn’t need to. It’s truly that simple.
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I don't disagree. I know very few people want it. I was just hitting back at "it was only popular cuz it was cheap, no one wants a small phone"

 

[Telecart]

This will not be the success that iPhone SE was. That phone delivered on two needs: People who want a small iphone (me!), and people who want a cheaper iphone.

I don't know the split between those two types, but I'm guessing there's a nontrivial % that is in my group. I'd happily spend $1000 on an SE2 that was small and premium. I'll settle for a minor chip / cam upgrade SE2 for cheaper. I won't buy a larger SE2 at all.

 

[Baymowe335]

This will not be the success that iPhone SE was. That phone delivered on two needs: People who want a small iphone (me!), and people who want a cheaper iphone.

I don't know the split between those two types, but I'm guessing there's a nontrivial % that is in my group. I'd happily spend $1000 on an SE2 that was small and premium. I'll settle for a minor chip / cam upgrade SE2 for cheaper. I won't buy a larger SE2 at all.

You don't know how "successful" the SE was. All we know is it wasn't successful enough to stay around and/or stop the larger screens from taking over.

Most people want larger screen phones, evidenced by the market.

 

[Baymowe335]

The SE is selling very well despite not getting an update as much as 6” smartphone.

Post your evidence. Remember, "selling really well" is relative. Apple sells 200M phones/yr, so other phones are selling really well too and the SE has to justify its own product line. It clearly hasn't demonstrated the ability to sell well enough to justify its existence since it was first released.

 

[mag33]

I think a 4inch phone at $1000 would sell very, very poorly...

 

[dcpmark]

I think a 4inch phone at $1000 would sell very, very poorly...

I think those who spend $1000+ on a small premium phone like me would expect a bezel-less small phone at that price, which means a 4.5 to 4.7” screen......simple processor/cam/memory upgrades to the current SE design while more expensive wouldn’t be anywhere near that price.

 

[lordofthereef]

Apple's own keynote said differently.

I appreciate that share. I honestly didn't remember this at all.

If Apple identified a need for smaller phones it makes it all the more peculiar to me that they didn't refresh the device in any way. If it's not about the cost of the phone why are they not giving this subset of iPhone buyers what they want every year when they're designing new larger phones yearly?

I'm wondering what their reasoning behind "because it's their first iPhone" is. I interpret that as "budget device" without actually saying "budget device". But, I admit, that's absolutely presumptive on my part. Still, a good point was made about the 5c being about giving people colorful phones when that (at least in my mind) was very clearly designed with the budget shopper in mind.

 

[JPack]

If Apple identified a need for smaller phones it makes it all the more peculiar to me that they didn't refresh the device in any way. If it's not about the cost of the phone why are they not giving this subset of iPhone buyers what they want every year when they're designing new larger phones yearly?

One of the most revealing facts about iPhone SE is Apple didn't put in the newest technologies. Where was Touch ID 2.0 and 3D Touch? Or an updated modem? If Apple was designing a premium small phone, how come these were not included? The fact that SE was left without a refresh and later had a price cut should hint as to who Apple was targeting.

I'm wondering what their reasoning behind "because it's their first iPhone" is. I interpret that as "budget device" without actually saying "budget device". But, I admit, that's absolutely presumptive on my part. Still, a good point was made about the 5c being about giving people colorful phones when that (at least in my mind) was very clearly designed with the budget shopper in mind.

There's no other way to interpret that as anything other than "budget device." How many people picked iPhone SE as their first iPhone because of size? The iPhone 5, 5c, and 5s were all 4-inch devices, how come customers didn't buy iPhone back then? Probably because it was expensive. How many first time smartphone buyers are there in America or Europe? Apple wasn't targeting that group, rather it was the emerging markets that had plenty of first time buyers.