iPhone 11 Pro Mini
a13 chip
Triple camera
4”
5SE frame
Touch ID
price: whatever
a13 chip
Triple camera
4”
5SE frame
Touch ID
price: whatever
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Kuo: Apple to Launch 'iPhone SE 2' in Early 2020 With Similar Design as iPhone 8, A13 Chip, and 3GB RAM
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Nah, I'm good. The whole "mental health" thing is kind of funny to begin with. What's to worry over? You wake up, go to work, come home. Eat, sleep, shower between and you're good. Life isn't that complicated.
The choice for me comes down to an old design (SE/6/7/8/SE2) and not too bulky, versus a new design (X/XS/XR/11) and how bulky can you handle because it will be bulky.
Not a nice decision at all. Otherwise I would have been totally ready to buy.
My last hope is with the rumoured smaller 5.4-inch Pro next September and you bet I would look for a way to cut down the cost of a Pro.
Or maybe a phone like that is worth it.
Not a nice decision at all. Otherwise I would have been totally ready to buy.
My last hope is with the rumoured smaller 5.4-inch Pro next September and you bet I would look for a way to cut down the cost of a Pro.
Or maybe a phone like that is worth it.
Last edited:
But Mr Supply Chain Tim Cook just wanted to use existing iPhone parts, just like with the 2016 SE, rather than "waste" a whole new design for a cheaper phone.
That may be the case, and then we're out of luck (SE people). That might be indeed what Apple wants, or their kind of spreadsheet thinking. The problem is there are already a bunch of options for these people.
The problem with this is, who cares what the market has chosen? Should BMW just make pickup trucks because they sell the most? Should all food change to gluten-free because the market has chosen that?
Apple used to be able to make a variety of products (and still seems to) successfully to serve a variety of needs. I realize they can't make every possible wanted configuration, but remember, they argued (and I think correctly) that the SE form-factor was the optimal size for a smart-phone.
Yes, the market has spoken that many people favor having a bigger than optimum size because they are willing to accept a less optimal form-factor to get more screen space. But, I think Apple should still make the optimum, so long as there is a reasonable sized market for it.
By the logic some are using here, they should also cut the plus sized phones, as they sell less of those too. They could simply standardize on one iPhone model. They could also just make the iMac as their only desktop, and one laptop as well.
Isn't that closer to the iPhone 6/7/8?
An Apple Watch is next to useless compared to an iPhone for what most smart-phone users do.
You might be correct in regards to Apple's priorities, and they do seem to be trying to cram all their 'services' down our throats these days (their new strategy for growth). But, I could care less about Apple News, Apple TV, etc. I want one of those optimum smart-phones they used to make.
I'm not sure we know exactly, but the estimates I've seen show it was around 10% of the lineup when introduced and then less other years. That's still a lot of phones.
Ok, so if they do it right (based on the past), that might be 20M phones. That isn't worth producing?
Yeah, they tried to serve the budget and size-oriented markets with one device. The problem with this is that budget-oriented people (who more likely use a phone as their primary computing device) are going to want screen size. While we form-factor people want features.
In other words, they made a worst of both worlds combo phone... then decided it didn't meet expectations in terms of sales. Self-fulfilling prophecy.
Budget oriented people bought it if they couldn't afford one of the bigger phones (and the ones that could went bigger). We SE-fans bought it because it was the only friggin' option!
Umm... have you noticed the world around you lately? Suicide rates are going up. People's amygdalae are swollen to epic proportions. Obesity is off the charts. Brain related disease (Alzheimer's, etc.) are off the charts. Diabetes is off the charts. Life kind of seems to be that complicated... or at least the majority are doing it wrong.
Well, if I were to utterly speculate, I'd say it is over 10% based on the anecdotal popularity of the SE I see around me. That's why I wasn't utterly speculating and was referring to estimates from the 'experts' who try to estimate such things based on the best information that can be had.
We'll only know for sure if Apple gives us exact numbers, but for big-picture kind of stuff, those estimates are the best we've got. Are you saying you have some info that shows they are dramatically off-base?
But, again, I'm not even sure what the relevance of % is here. The Plus/Max models sell even less and Apple seems to deem them worthy of being in the product lineup. No one is saying all of Apple's phones should be SE-sized, just that the SE-form-factor should be a member of the lineup, just like phones with really big screens for those who prefer them.
Last edited:
The sales of Plus models have grown every year since the introduction of iPhone 6 Plus. Back in 2014, the Plus model represented about 25% of new iPhone shipments. Today, the Max model completely leaves the 5.8" model in the dust.
Globally, phablet shipments are expected to overtake regular smartphones this year, according to IDC. Anything less than 5.5" is already considered a brown banana. The SE form factor is a niche within a niche.
Jony Ive admitted in an interview they had been designing iPhone 6 since 2011. That was the same time Apple was trying to convince the world the iPhone 5 could be held in one hand.
Keep in mind Apple wanted to sell an iPad along with every iPhone. That's a big reason why Apple kept out of the phablet business until 2014, when iPad sales hit a wall and Apple had to face the reality of the phablet.
Your analogy of pickup trucks isn't quite accurate. Nobody outside the U.S. buys pickup trucks in any appreciable numbers. Rather, it the SUV that's analogous to phablets. Globally, everyone wants an SUV. And guess what? The BMW SUV lineup includes the X1 through X7.
As the smartphone business matures, Apple will need to find new markets in emerging economies. Budget smartphones like the SE2 are the way to attract new customers, lock them in the Apple ecosystem, and help earn more lifetime revenue through subscriptions and hardware. The SE wasn't wildly successful but the SE2 has a much better chance.
You can’t base assumptions on anecdotal data.
Again, if it were popular enough to exist, it would.
I think it’s laughable to assume the Plus and Max models sell/sold less than the SE. My proof is Apple still sells Plus and Max options.
Based on 30M 2015 4.0” screen sales (from SE rollout presentation Mar. 2016), and total 231M 2015 iPhone sales, 4.0” screen models were about 13% of 2015 sales.
During 2015, models sold by Apple were:
13%: 4.0” models - 5c and 5s.
87%: Larger 4.7” and 5.5“ models - 6 and 6s (fr. Sept.).
Granted, 5s/5c were 1+ to 2+ years old during 2015. They were however offered at discount vs. rollout.
But I think above tends to indicate how quickly and decisively the iPhone market jumped to the larger screens.
When SE rolled out Mar. 2016, there might have been an initial modest % sales bump vs. 5s...because SE was new, had a tech refresh, and was cheap. But % sales of SE must then have tapered off over next 1 1/2 yrs till it was discontinued.
During 2015, models sold by Apple were:
13%: 4.0” models - 5c and 5s.
87%: Larger 4.7” and 5.5“ models - 6 and 6s (fr. Sept.).
Granted, 5s/5c were 1+ to 2+ years old during 2015. They were however offered at discount vs. rollout.
But I think above tends to indicate how quickly and decisively the iPhone market jumped to the larger screens.
When SE rolled out Mar. 2016, there might have been an initial modest % sales bump vs. 5s...because SE was new, had a tech refresh, and was cheap. But % sales of SE must then have tapered off over next 1 1/2 yrs till it was discontinued.
Yes, but if you look at percentages of a particular plus model in a given time period, it is typically in the 3% to 10% range, based off the charts I've seen.
My point (if it is that hard to grasp), is that Apple makes other low-percentage selling models, whether it be phones, computers, watches, etc. The idea that the SE form-factor doesn't sell enough as the reason not to make it is just daft.
If they never make another one, then they have some reason, I'm sure. But it isn't because it wouldn't sell enough to bother making.
re: large phones globally - makes sense, as a lot of the world uses smartphones in a primary computing way. I'm not saying don't make them, just that having a range of form-factors is good, and smaller percentages doesn't mean it isn't worth having in the lineup.
Oh great, so they lied to us? Good for them, I guess. Or, could it be they recognized they'd have to add larger phones to their lineup? It couldn't be that they were actually correct and compromised to address market demand... nah! LOL (Cause we know market demand *always* gets it right
)Deceptive Apple again, eh? Cause it couldn't be true the SE form-factor is actually an optimal size for a smart-phone... nah!
Sure, we could go with that too. Some car makers have actually dropped sedans to focus on SUVs. And... that's just plain stupid. If BMW ever drops everything but the X-series, I'll be happy to say you were right, and call BMW stupid.
I just don't get this 'everyone must have the same model/product' thing. If you can fill me in on how that kind of thinking works, maybe I'll be more sympathetic.
Yes, I know... I was replying to what you said. Since you won't accept any data, I thought maybe you'd be happier with anecdotal experience. Seems you're only happy just saying you're right and everyone else is wrong.
So, your basic thesis is that Apple never does anything wrong?
(Just for the record... I remember conversations much like this before the SE came along.)
Apple pretty much is the best executing company on the planet, so yeah...they know what they are doing with major strategic decisions for iPhone, which is responsible for over $100B in annual revenue.Yes, but if you look at percentages of a particular plus model in a given time period, it is typically in the 3% to 10% range, based off the charts I've seen.
My point (if it is that hard to grasp), is that Apple makes other low-percentage selling models, whether it be phones, computers, watches, etc. The idea that the SE form-factor doesn't sell enough as the reason not to make it is just daft.
If they never make another one, then they have some reason, I'm sure. But it isn't because it wouldn't sell enough to bother making.
re: large phones globally - makes sense, as a lot of the world uses smartphones in a primary computing way. I'm not saying don't make them, just that having a range of form-factors is good, and smaller percentages doesn't mean it isn't worth having in the lineup.
Oh great, so they lied to us? Good for them, I guess. Or, could it be they recognized they'd have to add larger phones to their lineup? It couldn't be that they were actually correct and compromised to address market demand... nah! LOL (Cause we know market demand *always* gets it right
Deceptive Apple again, eh? Cause it couldn't be true the SE form-factor is actually an optimal size for a smart-phone... nah!
Sure, we could go with that too. Some car makers have actually dropped sedans to focus on SUVs. And... that's just plain stupid. If BMW ever drops everything but the X-series, I'll be happy to say you were right, and call BMW stupid.
I just don't get this 'everyone must have the same model/product' thing. If you can fill me in on how that kind of thinking works, maybe I'll be more sympathetic.
Yes, I know... I was replying to what you said. Since you won't accept any data, I thought maybe you'd be happier with anecdotal experience. Seems you're only happy just saying you're right and everyone else is wrong.
So, your basic thesis is that Apple never does anything wrong?
(Just for the record... I remember conversations much like this before the SE came along.)
If the Plus and Max represent 3% to 10% out of 2 billion iPhones, which is the chart you're referring to, that's a massive amount. Those charts represent the total number of active iPhones, including the original iPhone.
Not sure what kind of business background you have, if any. If something isn't expected to sell, you don't make it. You're proposing something that makes zero sense. Maybe you work for the government where money comes from the sky?
Oh great, so they lied to us? Good for them, I guess. Or, could it be they recognized they'd have to add larger phones to their lineup? It couldn't be that they were actually correct and compromised to address market demand... nah! LOL (Cause we know market demand *always* gets it right
Market demand is what made Apple a $1T company.
Deceptive Apple again, eh? Cause it couldn't be true the SE form-factor is actually an optimal size for a smart-phone... nah!
Who says the SE form factor is optimal? Because you watched a marketing keynote and a couple of TV ads that said so? LOL.
Companies respond to market demand. It's as simple as that. I'm not sure why you're having trouble understanding a simple concept.
Are you sure that’s the case? Has it occurred to you that we basically have two choices of phones. Apple or google. Especially in North America.
So perhaps they’re not giving what the market wants. They are giving us what they know they can get away with selling and in doing so charge the most money for.
we’ve been forced into a market where if you want to keep with Apple you pay double what you paid just a few years ago.
google and Apple have a duopoly. And just like the demise of smaller retailers we eventually get stuck buying what they sell. Not buying what we want.
I’d personally love one of the new Nokia 800 and an iPod for podcasts.
So, was the SE a mistake, or not?
Which is exactly what I've been trying to tell you. 5-10% of 2 billion iPhones is a LOT of phones! So, go here and see what models sell what percentages:
iPhone model device market share worldwide 2015-2018| Statista
In December 2018, the iPhone * accounted for nearly ** percent of all iPhone sales worldwide.
www.statista.com
Of course if you're going to add up all the plus/max size phones over the years, and then compare that to the SE, that isn't fair. I'm saying as a single model of iPhone, the SE did just fine. And, if they had better planned it, it would have done even better (ie. it blurred two distinct market areas, not being the best of either... yet it still sold quite well).
Well, business isn't my area of expertise, for sure. I've run a small business. I've taken a graduate-level economics seminar. You?
Yes, if something won't sell well, then you don't make it. Unless, of course, it is a key product in a lineup that has other value (ie. better serves your customer base, or drives innovation... ex: Mac Pro, Corvette, etc.).
But, the whole point is that it sells just fine, so I don't understand what you're even trying to get at. Money doesn't have to come from the sky if you make a nice profit margin on several million devices, let alone how many they'd likely sell. My gosh, most companies would love to sell as many devices as Apple does of any model they make.
No, not really. Lots of companies base their products off market demand and don't become $1T companies. What made Apple a $1T company is rather unique. And, it wasn't sticking their finger to the wind to catch the flavor of the month.
Again, are you saying the just made that all up to sell phones? Or, did they actually believe it to be the case?
Are you saying there isn't an optimal size to a smart-phone, so long as screen-real-estate isn't the driving factor? Do you know anything about engineering optimization and trade-offs?
No, it really isn't as simple as that. If it were, there would be lots of Apples and BMWs, etc.
When you simply respond to market demand, you get Dell and GM.
Of course not, but they sold more other devices when the big screens came into the picture. More people wanted the bigger screens, evidently.So, was the SE a mistake, or not?
Which is exactly what I've been trying to tell you. 5-10% of 2 billion iPhones is a LOT of phones! So, go here and see what models sell what percentages:
iPhone model device market share worldwide 2015-2018| Statista
In December 2018, the iPhone * accounted for nearly ** percent of all iPhone sales worldwide.
Of course if you're going to add up all the plus/max size phones over the years, and then compare that to the SE, that isn't fair. I'm saying as a single model of iPhone, the SE did just fine. And, if they had better planned it, it would have done even better (ie. it blurred two distinct market areas, not being the best of either... yet it still sold quite well).
Well, business isn't my area of expertise, for sure. I've run a small business. I've taken a graduate-level economics seminar. You?
Yes, if something won't sell well, then you don't make it. Unless, of course, it is a key product in a lineup that has other value (ie. better serves your customer base, or drives innovation... ex: Mac Pro, Corvette, etc.).
But, the whole point is that it sells just fine, so I don't understand what you're even trying to get at. Money doesn't have to come from the sky if you make a nice profit margin on several million devices, let alone how many they'd likely sell. My gosh, most companies would love to sell as many devices as Apple does of any model they make.
No, not really. Lots of companies base their products off market demand and don't become $1T companies. What made Apple a $1T company is rather unique. And, it wasn't sticking their finger to the wind to catch the flavor of the month.
Again, are you saying the just made that all up to sell phones? Or, did they actually believe it to be the case?
Are you saying there isn't an optimal size to a smart-phone, so long as screen-real-estate isn't the driving factor? Do you know anything about engineering optimization and trade-offs?
No, it really isn't as simple as that. If it were, there would be lots of Apples and BMWs, etc.
When you simply respond to market demand, you get Dell and GM.
So, more people want bigger screens. I grant that. What follows? No more smaller screens? (interesting logic, if so)
What is more interesting is why someone who says he doesn’t want an SE and thinks a new one will never come spends his time posting in every topic relating to a rumour of a new one.
If you don’t want one. Great. Move along.
personally if apple don’t release a new phone that is at least as small physically as the old SE I’ll keep this one for as long as it’s usable and hope in the next 3-4 years people wake up from their smart phone induced zombie state and we get some basic phones on the market that just do the bare essentials without having to import a Nokia from India or one of the Kickstarter style minimalist phones.