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Kuo: Apple's First MacBook With an OLED Display to Launch as Early as Next Year
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HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
He gets paid presumably very well to forecast what's coming. The rest of us attempt to do it for free. Apparently getting paid to do it might be called a professional, while the rest of us not getting paid might classify as amateurs.
All of those who challenge his credibility on the premise that they and/or "we" know better, should line themselves up the same job & compensation to step up into that "quotes/forecasts for money" realm.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
There is already M2 "brains" in iPad Pros while MBpro and Studio are still M1. Apple rolls out advances when ready... sometimes in no logical order. Recall that Silicon's first debut was in the lowly Mac Mini. We're still waiting for the top of the Mac Mountain to transition now YEARS later.
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Sorry, Tim Cook is “not hearing from customers” about this.OLED provides far better contrast than LCD—but unless Apple improves its OLED dimming technology, this will not be a beneficial change for those sensitive to OLED flicker.
OLEDs can be dimmed with analog dimming (aka constant current reduction), in which the OLED's simply emit less light. But analog dimming's downsides include color shifts as the screen is dimmed, larger circuitry, and higher power consumption. Thus OLED screens are instead usually dimmed digitally by keeping the OLED's brightness constant (when they're on), and rapidly switching them on and off. This is called pulse width modulation (PWM). The idea is that if you want, say, 50% brightness, you rapidly switch the OLEDs on and off so that they illuminate the screen only 50% of the time.
The problem with PWM is that the frequency at which OLEDs can do this is not that high (often below 100 Hz, though it can go higher), and some can perceive this flickering and get headaches from it. The flicker becomes especially noticeable when the display is significantly dimmed. E.g., at 10% brightness, the display would have a duty cycle of 10% on and 90% off. That's why people using OLED devices at night are more likely to get eyestrain.
It would be nice if Apple gave consideration to this in making its MacBook Pro OLED screens, and either implement an improved analog dimmer, or choose an OLED technology with a high PWM frequency. For instance, according to https://www.notebookcheck.net/PWM-R...del=1&screen_resolution=1&screen_panel_type=1 , OLED variants are available with PWM frequencies > 800 Hz (833 Hz for the AMOLED Lenovo Legion Phone Duel). However, it doesn't seem Apple cares about PWM flicker, since the iPhone 14's PWM frequency is only 60 Hz. [Would the 120 Hz frequency of the new displays mean the minimum PWM frequency would also be 120 Hz?]
The LED's used to backlight LCD screens also use PWM dimming. The difference is that their PWM frequency is much higher, which makes flicker far less noticeable (and typically imperceptible, even for sensitive viewers). For instance, according to the above link, the PWM frequency for the 14" & 16" M1 MacBook Pro LCD screens is 14,880 Hz.
See also:
Flicker, the display affliction
All screens flicker to some degree, but what causes it on smartphones in particular, and how does DXOMARK test for it?www.dxomark.com
Managing PWM on OLED iPhone & iPad Displays
Some iPhone and iPad users are sensitive to PWM flickering on the latest devices OLED displays. PWM, which stands for Pulse Width Modulation, can cause some users to have eye strain, feel nauseous …osxdaily.com
It does make sense. They started with the lowest volume, lowest performance, cheapest products first. They had to make sure to work out any performance kinks before cranking up the size.
If you mean the fact they are putting M series chips in iPads, I don’t quite get that either.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
I fully understand why Apple did it- just pointing out to the OP that what seems logical through their lens regarding OLED doesn't necessarily apply in the way Apple goes about things... using the chosen order of the Silicon rollout as a tangible illustration. Adapting their first line to fit the time before any Macs had launched with Silicon: "It would be weird to have a Mac mini with Silicon but not the MacBook Pro"
If true, I think this is going to be my next computer:
I mean, nailing the timing is practically impossible. Companies change their timing all the time. They change their timing for supply chain, for unexpected hardware issues, for unexpected software issues, economic headwinds, pandemic spread, political/social issues occurring in a specific region, competitor's new products launches, all kinds of reasons. If someone nailed the timing, I'd assume it was Tim posting, and even Tim would be changing the timing.
- 2024 14" MBP
- OLED
- M3 Max
- Middle GPU option
- 64GB RAM
- 4TB SSD
I mean, nailing the timing is practically impossible. Companies change their timing all the time. They change their timing for supply chain, for unexpected hardware issues, for unexpected software issues, economic headwinds, pandemic spread, political/social issues occurring in a specific region, competitor's new products launches, all kinds of reasons. If someone nailed the timing, I'd assume it was Tim posting, and even Tim would be changing the timing.
Related rumors about Apple OLED displays say that Apple has been pushing their manufacturing partners to build dual-layer OLEDs; essentially two layers of OLEDs on top of each other. This stabilizes larger displays like this against warping that can happen. It also lets them run each OLED pixel at a lower power level to reduce likelihood of burn-in. This is because each pixel is actually a pair of pixels on different layers. If that is what they bring out, it seems like it will address most concerns about OLEDs - other than PWM flickering for those who are sensitive to it. I wonder if they could offset the PWM cycle for each layer and effectively double the PWM cycle speed?
I think you just asked and answered your own question about why Apple is “very late to the game”.
Technologies take long time to advance. The first LCD was built in 1971. The first OLED was built in 1987. The first microLED was built in 2012. That is why adopting microLED is so challenging in this decade as both LCD and OLED took decades to enter the consumer market, and they took about 35 years to fully enter the PC market.
The last thing I need is a laptop with burn-in on the screen. It's not a good look on my apple watch series 6, and it's not a good look anywhere else.
Stick to micro-led, apple.
Stick to micro-led, apple.
MicroLED is coming but it will be a few years before it is ready for Laptop sized screen. They are still a couple of years away from having watch sized MicroLED displays.
Apple to Make Custom Displays In-House, Starting With MicroLED for Apple Watch Ultra in 2024
Starting in 2024, Apple plans to use custom displays that it designs in-house for mobile devices like the iPhone and Apple Watch, reports Bloomberg....
www.macrumors.com
If you read some of the other posts in here they will mention a dual-layer OLED display that Apple is working on to address some OLED issues like burn-in.
Apple Reportedly Planning 13-Inch MacBook Air and iPad Pros With OLED Displays
It appears "increasingly likely" that Apple will launch a new 13-inch MacBook with an OLED display in 2024, according to display industry...
www.macrumors.com
Out of phase might help more than just and offset. If there are two layers then could got to perfect 50% dimming but just turning one layer off ( no pulsing at all). That only works is Apple's objective is not to get to higher peak breakness. ( 600-1000 nits). Otherwise the double layers to drive up the peaks which has a decent change to just make the flicker problem worse; not better.
Hoever, if not trying to crank up the brightness the maximal amount. Everything above 50% you could keep one level at a steady no PWM and then other layer has some PWM. The flicker is from going from "black" to 'lit". If there is always lit present then it doesn't go all the way "black". That may reduce some of the sensitivity impact. It would still surface as a problem 25% and below but the annoying range would be smaller. (and hope folks who just want less overall light coming off the panel switch to "dark mode" (just cut way back on the overall pixels lit up at any PWM speed).
The other approach is some kind of "noise cancellation " effect. Not really "faster" but one 'wave' going one way and another 'wave' that is moving in an offset phase enough to diminish the perception of the flicker. Try force whatever is in eye perception stack that is snagging these "off" cycles to do more "blending" between on/off so there is the overall perception is a more constant "on". Still likely to get 'bad' in some sub 20% range.
If both panels pulse at 60Hz, then not really going to get 120 Hz out them stacked. You'll just get different 'subpixels' flicker still at 60Hz.
There's a site called appletrack that claims to track this, but this reddit discussion says its methodology is questionable; you might want to investigate it yourself.
Source Leaderboard - AppleTrack
Top Apple Sources in 2022 # Name Accuracy 1 🐟 Ross Young 92.9% 2 🏀 Mark Gurman 86.5% 3 📉 Trendforce 84.5% 4 🎧 52audio 83.3% 5 🕘 9to5Mac 82.8% 6 ❓ MacRumors 72.7% 7 🇨🇳 China Times 72.7% 8 👨💻 Ming-Chi Kuo 72.5% 9 🧻 Jon Prosser 69.1% 10 🍍 Max Weinbach 69% 11 […]
appletrack.com
My current experience is that my iPhone SE and my MacBook Air both have good displays, but the OLED displays on my OnePlus 8T and ASUS ZenBook Pro have surprised me how good they can be indoors.
The OnePlus 8T display doesn't seem all that different than the 2022 iPhone SE display outdoors.
I still have not used the touch screen capability on the ZenBook Pro. Other than attracting fingerprints, I'm not sure how I'd use it.
The OnePlus 8T display doesn't seem all that different than the 2022 iPhone SE display outdoors.
I still have not used the touch screen capability on the ZenBook Pro. Other than attracting fingerprints, I'm not sure how I'd use it.
Wonder which MacBook will get OLED first. It can also be an entirely new model.
What I’m curious about is how has apple not investigated his leaks? He’s clearly got someone on the inside at apple and they haven’t shut him down yet.