Kuo: Global iPhone Shipments Could Decline Up to 30% If Apple Forced to Remove WeChat From App Store [Updated x2]

[NewUsername]

You should really look more into the world news about what's happening in China regarding XinJiang and Hong Kong. Taiwan is a country. China has never governed Taiwan.

I understand your point, but China also has a very strong argument saying Taiwan is part of China. After all, Taiwan was fully recognized as part of China after WW II, and the PRC is simply the successor state of the ROC. Of course it's awkward to say Taiwan is part of the PRC when the PRC has never governed it, but basically the PRC is just the ROC which changed its name in 1949, so you could also argue about that.

Of course, you can also argue that Taiwan should be a fully independent state or should retain its current independence etc. I'm just saying the Chinese claim isn't irrational or absurd.

Xinjiang and Hong Kong are exactly my point, for China it's an internal Chinese issue. They're fully recognized as part of China anyway.

Most criticism of China is based on China's internal issues, including Xinjiang/Tibet/Hong Kong/Taiwan/Senkaku, the border with India and the South China Sea. Of course that's a lot, and not all of them are recognized as internal issues by everybody (especially the Taiwan issue). However, I still appreciate how little China is involved in other conflicts, which the US and the EU shouldn't be involved in, imo.

Anyway, the US criticizing China often is a matter of “seeing the mote in another's eye but not the beam in your own eye” in my opinion.

 

[Johnny907]

Sounds like Timmy's choice to bet big on China might finally have some real consequences. Here's hoping that pivot to focus more on India and other burgeoning markets was made in time to eventually cover the loss.
He's a smart guy but he went all in on China far too quickly and gave up too much to make it happen.

 

[hollandog]

Ain't nobody going to jailbreak an iPhone to install WeChat. Not when there's a half-dozen popular domestic brands.

As an Asian American, you probably haven't experienced 1/10 of WeChat. It's a mini-Slack platform used by most businesses for productivity. It's where parents log in to check school grades of their kids. It's used for COVID-19 to show individual health status and check-ins at restaurants.

I'm sure they will. What are they going to use? Chinese made Huawei, One Plus or XiaoMi? Huawei probably can't even have Android in it. iPhone is also a status symbol in China. Why else you think some people would sell their kidney to buy one? If you're Chinese you know how the Chinese love the imported luxury goods.

I understand Wechat's capability which is why it is probably the worst offender of being a spyware. They don't only monitor their own citizen with it but also spy on oversea users as well. My parents use it in daily basis and I had to help them debunk all the fake news they get from Wechat all the time.

 

[hollandog]

I understand your point, but China also has a very strong argument saying Taiwan is part of China. After all, Taiwan was fully recognized as part of China after WW II, and the PRC is simply the successor state of the ROC. Of course it's awkward to say Taiwan is part of the PRC when the PRC has never governed it, but basically the PRC is just the ROC which changed its name in 1949, so you could also argue about that.

Of course, you can also argue that Taiwan should be a fully independent state or should retain its current independence etc. I'm just saying the Chinese claim isn't irrational or absurd.

Xinjiang and Hong Kong are exactly my point, for China it's an internal Chinese issue. They're fully recognized as part of China anyway.

Most criticism of China is based on China's internal issues, including Xinjiang/Tibet/Hong Kong/Taiwan/Senkaku, the border with India and the South China Sea. Of course that's a lot, and not all of them are recognized as internal issues by everybody (especially the Taiwan issue). However, I still appreciate how little China is involved in other conflicts, which the US and the EU shouldn't be involved in, imo.

Anyway, the US criticizing China often is a matter of “seeing the mote in another's eye but not the beam in your own eye” in my opinion.

That's the CCP's argument on Taiwan. Taiwan is a country and that's the fact. They have their own president, legislature, military, passport, currency, etc. Just because they speaks Chinese and share the same ethnicity don't mean they are part of CCP.

CCP is not the successor of ROC. CCP stole the land from ROC (long story) and ROC retreated to the now Taiwan. Technically Taiwan is the real China. ROC signed the 99 years lease agreement of Hong Kong to Britain in 1898, before CCP even formed. Technically Hong Kong should've returned to Taiwan who signed the agreement.

The main reason the world don't all recognize Taiwan is a country because China says so. With China's growing power, market and influence nobody wants to say anything about it because there's no benefit in doing so. This includes the UN, WHO and more.

 

[hollandog]

I am asking this because I actually don’t know. Now can people use other messaging apps in China duemto the censorship? Is WeChat the only messaging app they can use?

All other platforms are banned in China. Wechat is the only one. Whatsapp, Line, Telegram, Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc. All banned.

 

[JPack]

I'm sure they will. What are they going to use? Chinese made Huawei, One Plus or XiaoMi? Huawei probably can't even have Android in it. iPhone is also a status symbol in China. Why else you think some people would sell their kidney to buy one? If you're Chinese you know how the Chinese love the imported luxury goods.

I understand Wechat's capability which is why it is probably the worst offender of being a spyware. They don't only monitor their own citizen with it but also spy on oversea users as well. My parents use it in daily basis and I had to help them debunk all the fake news they get from Wechat all the time.

Apple's smartphone market share in China represents less than 10%. That 90% is "what they are going to use."

There's a reason why Huawei can charge nearly $1,200 for a P40 Pro which runs Android. The iPhone is a nice imported smartphone, but Huawei is a far bigger halo brand in China. Not to mention being able to use WeChat is far more important.

 

[JPack]

I am asking this because I actually don’t know. Now can people use other messaging apps in China duemto the censorship? Is WeChat the only messaging app they can use?

iMessage
QQ
Bullet Messenger
MT

 

[maxsquared]

Trump can’t control app stores outside the US. Your governments have to decide if they agree with him and allow the ban or if they’re willing to risk trade with the US. The choice is still yours to make.

Incorrect, aware of what had happened to Huawei? It was banned in the US long ago, now Pompeo is going around the world to blackmail countries to ban it. And at first, it stopped US companies doing business with Huawei, now it's stopping TSMC, ARM etc etc doing business with it as well....

Who knows which country/company comes to the sight of America and get banned or be bullied at? America is way more dangerous than China.

 

[DotCom2]

Doesn’t look like the Stock Market is that worried about it. AAPL is up almost 1.50% at the moment.

 

[sirozha]

Not a single mainland Chinese will buy a new iPhone if WeChat is not available on it. Like for most Americans Internet=Facebook, for the absolute majority of mainland Chinese a smart phone=WeChat. Moreover, many Chinese living in other countries will not buy an iPhone if they can’t run WeChat on it because their entire Digital life is in WeChat.

The company that will benefit most from this is Huawei. However, an alliance of Chinese smartphone manufacturers started building their own App Store a while back because they knew this was coming. So, all Android-based phones will be able to run WeChat from the Chinese android App Store not affiliated with the Google Play Store.

Sell AAPL while you can pocket the profit. This will be much worse than the tariffs.

 

[sirozha]

Here is how Trump will be able to enforce his order vis-à-vis WeChat. Cook asked Trump for tariff waivers on Apple products manufactured in China, and Trump granted them. If Cook refuses to remove WeChat from the China’s App Store, Trump will cancel Apple’s tariff waivers.

 

[sirozha]

I'm sure they will. What are they going to use? Chinese made Huawei, One Plus or XiaoMi? Huawei probably can't even have Android in it. iPhone is also a status symbol in China. Why else you think some people would sell their kidney to buy one? If you're Chinese you know how the Chinese love the imported luxury goods.

I understand Wechat's capability which is why it is probably the worst offender of being a spyware. They don't only monitor their own citizen with it but also spy on oversea users as well. My parents use it in daily basis and I had to help them debunk all the fake news they get from Wechat all the time.

Huawei absolutely runs Android. It can’t use Google services, but no one uses Google services in China anyway because they are banned by CCP.

 

[dampfnudel]

I don’t think it would be international. May be US only.

That depends. It’s possible that the WeChat app could become useless the second a Chinese user steps off a plane in the US, Canada, UK, Australia, India, maybe the EU, etc. as all WeChat traffic could potentially be cut off in those countries.

 

[sirozha]

That's the CCP's argument on Taiwan. Taiwan is a country and that's the fact. They have their own president, legislature, military, passport, currency, etc. Just because they speaks Chinese and share the same ethnicity don't mean they are part of CCP.

CCP is not the successor of ROC. CCP stole the land from ROC (long story) and ROC retreated to the now Taiwan. Technically Taiwan is the real China. ROC signed the 99 years lease agreement of Hong Kong to Britain in 1898, before CCP even formed. Technically Hong Kong should've returned to Taiwan who signed the agreement.

The main reason the world don't all recognize Taiwan is a country because China says so. With China's growing power, market and influence nobody wants to say anything about it because there's no benefit in doing so. This includes the UN, WHO and more.

Taiwan calls themselves China. There are two governments that have the claim on representing China. The government in Taiwan is the runaway Chinese government that took over a Chinese province in 1947. They were deposed by a communist coup. That’s the reason why Taiwan speaks Mandarine just like mainland China. The residents of the island spoke a different Chinese language before the central government with all its supporters fled there. They don’t consider themselves a different country. They consider themselves the only legitimate vestige of China.

 

[Mescagnus]

Yup, if this really happens, then Apple might as well exits China market.
As for overseas Chinese, they can still use Android as Android allows alternative App Stores and sideloading. WeChat will still be available in the Xiaomi/Huawei app stores.

I see Huawei (and Xiaomi) as a winner in this battle, too. Even though Android allows sideloading, it might not be the safest way to get a crucial app like WeChat on a phone. Huawei could offer it preinstalled as an official app in their phones that now suffer from the Google Play ban.

 

[FriendlyMackle]

you’re spot on and America has a lot of work to do regarding international affairs. But America banned slavery 150 years ago. China currently enslaves minorities. Pretty clear to me which country deserves more condemnation.

I agree with you in principle, but unfortunately our ‘end to slavery’ here in the USA has an enormous loophole which has allowed the enslavement of millions of Americans (a high percentage of whom are Black) via our prison systems. This has been the case since the end of the Civil War. I believe that this is one major reason why criminal penalties are inordinately high for minor crimes and drug possession—these people end up enslaved for life (or most of it) and are forced to work for pennies per hour. AND large And small American corporations utilize these slaves to make and sell products and services. Just like China, without the organ harvesting! And with the betrayal of this nation’s ideals and propaganda. Most Americans believe the propaganda that we are a ‘bastion of freedom’ — this is simply not true.

 

[sirozha]

I agree with you in principle, but unfortunately our ‘end to slavery’ here in the USA has an enormous loophole which has allowed the enslavement of millions of Americans (a high percentage of whom are Black) via our prison systems. This has been the case since the end of the Civil War. I believe that this is one major reason why criminal penalties are inordinately high for minor crimes and drug possession—these people end up enslaved for life (or most of it) and are forced to work for pennies per hour. AND large And small American corporations utilize these slaves to make and sell products and services. Just like China, without the organ harvesting! And with the betrayal of this nation’s ideals and propaganda. Most Americans believe the propaganda that we are a ‘bastion of freedom’ — this is simply not true.

No one makes you work in prison. There is no forced labor.

 

[adib]

And why do we need to cater to China? They‘re an evil nation, with an evil government. They‘ve been occupying territory for decades, they‘ve been bullying half the globe, and they‘ve been blackmailing governments and consumers around the world. Let‘s just cut ties with China, count our losses and move on. Honestly, who gives a crap - it‘s probably better like that in the long run.

Same goes to the US. e.g.

• Vietnam (war)
• Afghanistan (war)
• Iraq (war)
• ...

 

[I7guy]

No one makes you work in prison. There is no forced labor.

Joe arpaio and chain gangs.

 

[Lucas284]

I have tons of Chinese friends here in Sweden. All of them rely on WeChat, and would go to Android the second WeChat disappear.

Why would there be a worldwide ban though? Why the hell would Trump decide which I apps I can use in Sweden?

Because Apple products and Trump are both from USA? I don’t know.

 

[FriendlyMackle]

No one makes you work in prison. There is no forced labor.

It IS forced labor. If they 'choose' not to work they are penalized in various manners, from unpleasant to very unpleasant. Not to mention, basics cost money (like to call your family) and they are left with a choice of nothing + penalties, or at least pennies to use in the commissary or to use the paid telephones. You can google all of this, the policies have been documented.

 

[sirozha]

It IS forced labor. If they 'choose' not to work they are penalized in various manners, from unpleasant to very unpleasant. Not to mention, basics cost money (like to call your family) and they are left with a choice of nothing + penalties, or at least pennies to use in the commissary or to use the paid telephones. You can google all of this, the policies have been documented.

By your measure, there is forced labor outside of prison as well. After all, you have to pay rent, pay for your mobile phone, your car, your food, your clothes, etc.

At least, they feed you, house you, and clothe you for free in prison.

 

[FriendlyMackle]

By your measure, there is forced labor outside of prison as well. After all, you have to pay rent, pay for your mobile phone, your car, your food, your clothes, etc.

At least, they feed you, house you, and clothe you for free in prison.

No, payment for rent, services rendered, or products purchased has nothing to do with forced labor. Your comparison doesn't make any sense.