Weren't you supposed to return that machine after a few months in exchange for something?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Kuo: MacBook Sales Down 30% Amid No New Products for Remainder of 2023
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Weren't you supposed to return that machine after a few months in exchange for something?
That's what I've been saying, but still there's a lot of people that won't care about paying an arm and two legs for upgrading from 8/256 to 16/512.
Especially when I upgraded my gaming laptop to 32GB and 2TB total for less than $140.
And while the M series are fast, it isn't like my i7-13700HX with RTX 4060 is slow...yet it was still cheaper than a 14" M2 MBP with 16GB and 1TB specs.
Apple uses very durable SSDs that should last much longer than the computer. As for pricing, Apple tends to sell storage today for last years prices and SSDs are coming down in price quickly. Hopefully we see Apple rethink their SSD pricing because it feels like a particularly bad deal this year.
But the iMac colors are so 2021, they don’t match with next season’s fashion palette!!!
And don’t get me started on all that silver and space grey. Boring
Last edited:
Not if you are still developing for it. It uses a processor found in iPad and iPhones and does a great job emulating the environment to develop on the devices.
this message with self destruct in 3…2…1……
I believe it's a more serious problem - ever since I can remember Apple's laptops have been the best designed laptops out there, bar none - no competition.
But now, PC makers upped their standards and many PC manufacturers target the MacBook Air market for a sleek, powerful, good looking machine - Apple is nothing special.
At the same time, Apple dropped the ball and made the ugliest / biggest MacBook Airs ever - since the M2 redesign the Air looks exactly the same as the small MacBook Pro - I know volume-wise, as they keep saying, it's the same as the M1. But the M1 has the magical Manila envelope effect, it looks insanely light and small, whereas the M2 looks like any other boring old small laptop.
Huge bummer because the specs are epic.
The Macbook Pro 16 on the other hand is the largest MacBook Pro since the 17". It's massive. They need to slim that thing down. I love it despite the size - because it's a workhorse and never misses a beat, it's the most solid Apple product ironically also since the 17" haha... just realizing that. Maybe size makes for better quality?
I've had nearly every MacBook Pro model since the early 2000s, and the only ones that never had any problems with the hardware - as in ZERO - are the 17" MBP and the new 16" MBP M1 Pro. I guess that's good...
But looks-wise, the older, slimmer, 16" Intel MacBook Pro was just much better looking. Much smaller, much sleeker, and still super solid with a real keyboard.
New macs look crap. That's the reason. They need to get a designer back in the house.
Their upgrade prices are a joke: I can buy a new ps5, which contains a faster (especially compared to the ssd in m2 MacBooks) 825 Gb ssd, for the price of a 256 to 1tb upgrade. Oh, and if you want, you can upgrade the storage in the ps5 later on as well. How is this 256/8 in a nonupgradeable 1200 dollar laptop not a race to the bottom? Probably also the reason why Amazon et al have the base configs on sale a lot: few people wants them: if I buy a 1200 dollar computer I want it to last at least 4 years. With 256/8, I doubt it.
I bought MBA 8/256 in early 2021 expecting to upgrade as ARM developed for Apple. It runs all I need to run and is easily the best Mac I have had. I had a long line of iMacs from 2006 through 2022 when I finally sold off the iMac 5k. Connected the MBA to Studio display, added Apple keybaord and trackpad and honestly cannot fault it. Went for base spec to avoid the Apple tax expecting to sell on and change to M2 and beyond. Recently tried base M2 mini and found no difference so returned it.
Initially concerned about memory use and would regularly look at activity monitor. Now completely ignore it. Even with several browsers (generally Firefox and SafarI though occasionally Brave to avoid YouTube ads), editor, several terminals, mail, messages (why is that app so memory hungry), code development (generally terminal with VIM/make, MacVIM and occasionally CodeRunner) and so on it just carries on regardless.
I noticed the SSD speed on the M2 mini was half that of M1 MBA - luckily my MBA was before the penny pinching came in. Not sure I noticed any difference in use so would not be overly concerned. What did surprise me was one of the Crucial NVMe SSD I have for my various PI and mini Intel PC (NUC and Brix) way exceeded the internal SSD even on USB connection.
I always tended to upgrade the iMac to at least 16/512. That added £400 to cost and was rarely retuned. I can buy a very fast (6000MB/s) NVMe 1TB for £41 and 16GB Crucial memory for £30. It really annoys me to pay a 6x multiplier for the same and (in case of SSD) even get lower performance than commodity SSD. I though the reason for integrating memory into the SoC was to gain performance on SSD and memory.
I am a huge fan of macOS, iOS and iPadOS. I really like Apple hardware and find it unrivalled. I just find the upgrades almost insulting and hard to justify. They would make me reluctant to add them when ordering now and thankfully 8/256 base spec (even though such as spec is considered entry level on Windows/Linux, thankfully less so on macOS ARM and indeed is 10 year old spec) continues to work well for me. I am now more inclined to look at my apps and go for lighter weight apps that reduce memory footprint.
I am now more likely to keep the MBA for much longer as I will the ASD and Key/Track. Run them until they become a burden or until OS support stops. Much as I am considering doing with my iPad Pro and Apple TV. The hardware is now so good even in base spec I wonder if this is starting to affect sales and upgrades. I still upgrade my iPhone annually but have a chain of passing on through family so that feels a little justified. Without that chain I would probably run the iPhone Pro Max for 3-5 years also. I am very happy to see this both personally and from environmental impact. I think Apple need to look at the strategy of continuous upgrades if they are serious about their climate credentials.
Initially concerned about memory use and would regularly look at activity monitor. Now completely ignore it. Even with several browsers (generally Firefox and SafarI though occasionally Brave to avoid YouTube ads), editor, several terminals, mail, messages (why is that app so memory hungry), code development (generally terminal with VIM/make, MacVIM and occasionally CodeRunner) and so on it just carries on regardless.
I noticed the SSD speed on the M2 mini was half that of M1 MBA - luckily my MBA was before the penny pinching came in. Not sure I noticed any difference in use so would not be overly concerned. What did surprise me was one of the Crucial NVMe SSD I have for my various PI and mini Intel PC (NUC and Brix) way exceeded the internal SSD even on USB connection.
I always tended to upgrade the iMac to at least 16/512. That added £400 to cost and was rarely retuned. I can buy a very fast (6000MB/s) NVMe 1TB for £41 and 16GB Crucial memory for £30. It really annoys me to pay a 6x multiplier for the same and (in case of SSD) even get lower performance than commodity SSD. I though the reason for integrating memory into the SoC was to gain performance on SSD and memory.
I am a huge fan of macOS, iOS and iPadOS. I really like Apple hardware and find it unrivalled. I just find the upgrades almost insulting and hard to justify. They would make me reluctant to add them when ordering now and thankfully 8/256 base spec (even though such as spec is considered entry level on Windows/Linux, thankfully less so on macOS ARM and indeed is 10 year old spec) continues to work well for me. I am now more inclined to look at my apps and go for lighter weight apps that reduce memory footprint.
I am now more likely to keep the MBA for much longer as I will the ASD and Key/Track. Run them until they become a burden or until OS support stops. Much as I am considering doing with my iPad Pro and Apple TV. The hardware is now so good even in base spec I wonder if this is starting to affect sales and upgrades. I still upgrade my iPhone annually but have a chain of passing on through family so that feels a little justified. Without that chain I would probably run the iPhone Pro Max for 3-5 years also. I am very happy to see this both personally and from environmental impact. I think Apple need to look at the strategy of continuous upgrades if they are serious about their climate credentials.
My two cents.
I have a 2020 i5 MacBook Air, since I've installed Sonoma I've been experiencing a quite noticeable performance degradation, I paid this thing 1.279 € just 3 years ago. My Dell PC, from 2017, i5, 8GB of RAM, 128GB SSD + 1TB HDD (not a powerhouse), is still smoother and faster than my Mac, and it's running the latest Windows 11, it has slowed down and is not as fast as a brand new PC, but it's still less noticeable and less intrusive than what I'm experiencing with my Mac.
I get it that Apple needs to sell hardware, I'm not saying they're intentionally making their new OSs to slow down older machines, I don't know that, but I find it hard to accept that a premium machine slows down after 3 years because of a new OS.
I do like MacOS, even though I don't need an upgrade right now, if I wanted to, a 13" Air starts at 1.349€ - 1.229€ with a 3-years old chip -, the 15" starts at 1.649€. If upgraded to 16+512 I'm looking at 2.109€ for the 15" and 1.809€ for the 13" (8-core GPU). These are not even marketed as professional machines.
I get it that Apple and affordable can't coexist in the same sentence, but they're not enticing customers to buy new machines. Personally, I don't know anymore how much trust I can put in Apple's computers, if I buy a new one, how long before it too starts to slow down and hang doing simple tasks?
I have a 2020 i5 MacBook Air, since I've installed Sonoma I've been experiencing a quite noticeable performance degradation, I paid this thing 1.279 € just 3 years ago. My Dell PC, from 2017, i5, 8GB of RAM, 128GB SSD + 1TB HDD (not a powerhouse), is still smoother and faster than my Mac, and it's running the latest Windows 11, it has slowed down and is not as fast as a brand new PC, but it's still less noticeable and less intrusive than what I'm experiencing with my Mac.
I get it that Apple needs to sell hardware, I'm not saying they're intentionally making their new OSs to slow down older machines, I don't know that, but I find it hard to accept that a premium machine slows down after 3 years because of a new OS.
I do like MacOS, even though I don't need an upgrade right now, if I wanted to, a 13" Air starts at 1.349€ - 1.229€ with a 3-years old chip -, the 15" starts at 1.649€. If upgraded to 16+512 I'm looking at 2.109€ for the 15" and 1.809€ for the 13" (8-core GPU). These are not even marketed as professional machines.
I get it that Apple and affordable can't coexist in the same sentence, but they're not enticing customers to buy new machines. Personally, I don't know anymore how much trust I can put in Apple's computers, if I buy a new one, how long before it too starts to slow down and hang doing simple tasks?
Have to agree with you here. The slowest SSD is almost inconceivably faster than the fastest spinnywhirl, and we were all got along with spinnywhirls for 50+ years. SSD speeds are a non-issue for almost everyone.
I don’t disagree that the economy and limited spec increase are contributors. For me another big reason for poor sales is the new physical designs though. They are getting uglier in my opinion. Apple products are less works of art than they were under the leadership of Jobs and Ive. They feel less thought out.
I used Intel MBPs for years and hated the heat and fan noise, but loved the design and durability. I refused to buy a MPB with the touch bar. That was just plain ugly and pointless in my opinion. It was like having a keyboard that periodically changed, reduced muscle memory, and required conscious brain power to use.
I switched to a M1 MBA for its fanless design when it came out and have loved it. I even prefer it over my Intel iMac Pro. The speed and efficiency of Apple Silicon is amazing compared to the older Intel Macs.
I did not like the new body styles of the new M2 MBPs and MBAs, so I did not even consider buying.
The other day I caved and bought the 15” M2 Air for the bigger screen. The bigger screen is nice and increases productivity. I still think the 13” is the most convenient for travel though. I plan to keep both the 13” M1 and the 15” M2 for that reason.
I love Apple silicon, but do not notice any difference at all as a software developer between the M1 and M2. I am sure it is there. I just don’t use or need it.
I still hate the new body styles. I especially hate the new feet. They look like pencil erasers. They also catch when sliding into a bag. That is what I mean by not thought out.
I feel as though the designs of newer Macs have gone downhill since Steve Jobs and Jony Ives left. I hated the touch bar and the new iMac design too. It’s like Apple is now changing proven designs just to create something different and separate its legacy from Jobs and Ivy.
I feel like we have been down this road before and it ended in the era of clamshell laptops and Apple’s near demise.
I also limit my purchasing of Apple products somewhat due to where they are made. I won’t elaborate on that though.
I used Intel MBPs for years and hated the heat and fan noise, but loved the design and durability. I refused to buy a MPB with the touch bar. That was just plain ugly and pointless in my opinion. It was like having a keyboard that periodically changed, reduced muscle memory, and required conscious brain power to use.
I switched to a M1 MBA for its fanless design when it came out and have loved it. I even prefer it over my Intel iMac Pro. The speed and efficiency of Apple Silicon is amazing compared to the older Intel Macs.
I did not like the new body styles of the new M2 MBPs and MBAs, so I did not even consider buying.
The other day I caved and bought the 15” M2 Air for the bigger screen. The bigger screen is nice and increases productivity. I still think the 13” is the most convenient for travel though. I plan to keep both the 13” M1 and the 15” M2 for that reason.
I love Apple silicon, but do not notice any difference at all as a software developer between the M1 and M2. I am sure it is there. I just don’t use or need it.
I still hate the new body styles. I especially hate the new feet. They look like pencil erasers. They also catch when sliding into a bag. That is what I mean by not thought out.
I feel as though the designs of newer Macs have gone downhill since Steve Jobs and Jony Ives left. I hated the touch bar and the new iMac design too. It’s like Apple is now changing proven designs just to create something different and separate its legacy from Jobs and Ivy.
I feel like we have been down this road before and it ended in the era of clamshell laptops and Apple’s near demise.
I also limit my purchasing of Apple products somewhat due to where they are made. I won’t elaborate on that though.
Last edited:
I'll take function over form. Case in point - butterfly keyboard.
If it weren't for AMD laptop shortages, I wouldn't have even considered my current MBP 14" M1 Pro. Pre-purchase problems that I still haven't gotten over: expensive storage/memory upgrades, disposable design (no upgradeable components. No user repairable parts), notch, glossy display, lack of USB-A, no x86 Windows compatibility (obviously). Things I discovered after owning it that annoyed me: macOS poor compatibility with external peripherals, each macOS release slowly becoming like iOS/iPadOS, weird macOS bugs that never get fixed like disk eject issue on sleep
Last edited:
Businesses tend to do really well when their product sales drop. Should be great. Shares go up too.
Performance race isn't needed if there's no gaming on the platform. For productivity tasks M1 was already way more than enough.
They need to look into more ports/better screens and instead they upgrade CPU by a notch and degrade SSD by half in base models. No wonder base M1 (and base models are what usually people buy outside US, because it's a very long wait or completely impossible to order custom builds) are still going strong.
They need to look into more ports/better screens and instead they upgrade CPU by a notch and degrade SSD by half in base models. No wonder base M1 (and base models are what usually people buy outside US, because it's a very long wait or completely impossible to order custom builds) are still going strong.
The one other thing I have learnt (and come to accept) from owning Apple products that I would rather pay more for something I know I will enjoy using, rather than save a little money on a cheaper alternative that I know I won't enjoy using anywhere near as much.
That's why Apple will never have majority market share, and that's why Apple will go on to be insanely profitable and successful despite it. Or perhaps, because of it.
Apple loves removing useful features and replacing them with useless junk like Notch and Touchbar. Who needs those "features"? At least Apple's MagSafe charger port is back. However, that's still not enough to pay over $1000 for a computer, because Apple computers now lack so many important basic features, that previously was prevalent.
Still waiting for the SD/SDXC card reader for ALL newest Mac models, not just the "high-end" ones, so we can easily and quickly import photos from cameras/video cameras. Ethernet port because wireless networking is unstable garbage. HDMI port for easy and quick TV and projector connection. Removable SSD and RAM. And number one: Removable batteries. Why can't we at least replace our old batteries? Old Nokia phones had removable batteries. Old MacBooks (e.g. the 2008 MacBook Pro) had removable batteries. Why does Apple claim they care so much about the environment, when their actions don't add up? Stop the nonsense Apple, people are tired of your double standards.
I could go on and on: Apple's management clearly are completely incompetent and ignores customers needs. Until Apple actually starts to listen and makes useful products that people actually need, Apple is getting ignored.
That's just their hardware: All their recent software issues are a whole different chapter and may lead to disaster.
For example, Apple now thinks Macs can be used as iPads, if you look carefully at their newest buggy "macOS" releases you will see. Where is the difference between macOS and iOS? Does Apple think MacBooks are iPads now? It sadly seems so, and they wonder why their sales are down 30%? When will Apple wake up? When their sales are down 80%?
Wake up Apple, please wake up.
Still waiting for the SD/SDXC card reader for ALL newest Mac models, not just the "high-end" ones, so we can easily and quickly import photos from cameras/video cameras. Ethernet port because wireless networking is unstable garbage. HDMI port for easy and quick TV and projector connection. Removable SSD and RAM. And number one: Removable batteries. Why can't we at least replace our old batteries? Old Nokia phones had removable batteries. Old MacBooks (e.g. the 2008 MacBook Pro) had removable batteries. Why does Apple claim they care so much about the environment, when their actions don't add up? Stop the nonsense Apple, people are tired of your double standards.
I could go on and on: Apple's management clearly are completely incompetent and ignores customers needs. Until Apple actually starts to listen and makes useful products that people actually need, Apple is getting ignored.
That's just their hardware: All their recent software issues are a whole different chapter and may lead to disaster.
For example, Apple now thinks Macs can be used as iPads, if you look carefully at their newest buggy "macOS" releases you will see. Where is the difference between macOS and iOS? Does Apple think MacBooks are iPads now? It sadly seems so, and they wonder why their sales are down 30%? When will Apple wake up? When their sales are down 80%?
Wake up Apple, please wake up.
Ethernet? It's 2023, you can connect display to USB-C. The most ridiculous list of demands I've seen in a while. Just get a random chinese laptop.