Landmarks MMO's

[TFMTASAD]

Which MMO can you call a Landmark MMO? And why?

3 titles come to my mind

Ultima Online. This is the game that started it all for a lot of us. It set the bar for the genre.

Everquest. This was just a big leap in general quality for an MMO. It boasted great graphics, great gameplay and was quite unique at the time.

World of Warcraft. WoW didn't reinvented the genre. It refined it. It definitly lacked originality but the overall quality of the game is something that was never seen in an MMO. Not my favorite in any way, but still, WoW is the game to beat right now.

 

[Elven]

I think Wow personally seen it at friends houses and tempted to get it myself when I sort out a new desktop Mac.

Question is how easy is it to get going?

 

[Kurrosh]

WoW is great. It's really easy to get working, but is a little annoying when you have to do the patches – you will spend a lot more time patching and downloading that the actual installation. Signing up on the site takes no time either. I have been playing it for 2 years, but now unfortunately Gold Spammers have taken over. That has really changed it, so many people buy power-leveling, buy honor, buy gold etc.

Just recently Age of Conan has come out. That's really good, I am slowly changing to it, and think for everyone who can get it (it's an 18) it will replace their old MMO or give them one. Age of Conan was also easy to install, very few patches so you will be playing faster – because it's new, and account creation is easy. It is more expensive than WoW as it's new, but when WoTLK comes, WoW + TBC + WoTLK will be like 80$. So for the a similar price and monthly fee, you can get WoW or AoC which are/will be the most popular games. AoC is much more realistic, and is much more skill-oriented for PvP. For PvE i think WoW will do better, for the time being anyways.

-Kurrosh

 

[Cromulent]

EverQuest without a doubt.

It is the largest game world ever created. With 11 or 12 expansions it is huge. I played it for 4 years and there are still zones I never managed to see in that time.

Dark Age of Camelot should be on that list as well though.

 

[Kurrosh]

EQ is a great game as well, but I personally never tried it, and it's Mac support is rumored not to be that great. Anyways, even if you do play it through mac, you can only play with other mac users, which seriously changes the community.

DAoC I used to play, but it became a little old, and little by little everyone moved on, quitting MMO's altogether or moving on to WoW/Eve/EQ or the top ranked ones.

Eve isn't mentioned, but it is well known as well, it is completely different to much MMO's - in space piloting a spacecraft.

Any of these games are landmarks, but slowly some are getting forgotten, and less and less people play them, new games are coming out. Like Warhammer Online looks really nice, Age of Conan is great etc. and as new ones come, the old ones start to be forgotten, like Vanguard, Dark Age of Camelot, soon even Ultima and EQ may start to lose there large community.

WoW has dominated the MMO industry for 4 years or so, and if WoTLK doesn't fix the mess TBC did, then they will go out of business to the new MMO's.

-Kurrosh

 

[TFMTASAD]

While I agree DAoC is great, I can't see it as a turning point for MMOs the way a game like Everquest was. DAoC as always been one of my favorites by the way. I have all the respect in the world for this game, but I think Everquest was more "important" in that era of MMOs.

As for EVE...well the game is so unique that it is pretty much a landmark game by default. We'll see what the future has in store for it.

We now have new (and upcoming) games that are really promising. Age of Conan is without a doubt lots of fun, but it's still rough in some spots. Warhammer, well not out yet, we'll see. I can't see any games in the coming years that could take the number spots (popularity wise) from WoW. Blizzard benefits from such a status in this industry, every time they release a game it becomes basically a classic (Warcraft II, Starcraft, Diablo I and II, WoW).

 

[Huntn]

WoW has dominated the MMO industry for 4 years or so, and if WoTLK doesn't fix the mess TBC did, then they will go out of business to the new MMO's.

I'd have to say Everquest, and WoW. I'm out of touch with WoW, what did TBC mess up?

Last I heard about Everquest Mac, it was negative things like good luck finding people to help you out on the Mac server, implying it was fairly empty and the players who are playing are up there in rank and not all the inclined to help noobs?

 

[Pressure]

While I agree DAoC is great, I can't see it as a turning point for MMOs the way a game like Everquest was. DAoC as always been one of my favorites by the way. I have all the respect in the world for this game, but I think Everquest was more "important" in that era of MMOs.

As for EVE...well the game is so unique that it is pretty much a landmark game by default. We'll see what the future has in store for it.

We now have new (and upcoming) games that are really promising. Age of Conan is without a doubt lots of fun, but it's still rough in some spots. Warhammer, well not out yet, we'll see. I can't see any games in the coming years that could take the number spots (popularity wise) from WoW. Blizzard benefits from such a status in this industry, every time they release a game it becomes basically a classic (Warcraft II, Starcraft, Diablo I and II, WoW).

Dark Age of Camelot brought the PvP system we have come to expect from every other MMORPG. Unfortunately I don't see any game that have matched or exceeded in giving me a better PvP experience.

Age of Conan is a polished turd with a broken graphic engine. The game is bug-ridden and the PvP system is as broken as the graphic engine. Sure it brings som new things to the table. It is, however, the game I currently play.

Lineage I and II were also huge in my book.

To be honest I would rather have an Dark Age of Camelot II.

The only reason I would mention World of Warcraft is because it has a huge player base. It does not do anyting special for me.

 

[Kurrosh]

Yes, Age of Conan is not nearly polished. There are a lot of bugs, and it isn't as easy to use ... yet. Keep in mind that EQ WoW DAoC etc. are all years old, whereas AoC has completely changed the way MMORPG's work. Most MMO's take the MMO and add RPG to it, yet AoC took the RPG and added MMO to it.

They had no game to base their combat systems and ideas on. It was expected to be like this. However, if you played in the Beta that you would have felt really let down at the time - it was so bugged and bad. when the game came out 3 days later, it was like a new game. Funcom must have worked their A$$' off. Now, within 2-3 months I can see AoC being a landmark for PvP and more skill-oriented MMO games.

And as for WoW, all it did is take DAoC, EQ, i am not sure if Guild Wars was out yet, and polish it. They took bits and pieces from all of them, put in their own lore from their Warcraft series, and mixed all the ideas up to make WoW. It is a landmark for that reason I would say.

What? No one mentioned Runescape? :O

-Kurrosh

 

[martychang]

No mentions of Asheron's Call? It's the only MMO other than WoW that held my interest for more than a year, and it held my interest for much longer than that as well as being vastly superior, WoW was just a "at least it's an MMO" thing.

Asheron's Call was basically UO with traditional levels, a less harsh dropping of death items system, and the consequent effects of those changes(i.e. less macroing for skills). The PvP on the Free-for-All server Darktide was the greatest, and was notably better than UO because there were no guards in towns, just invulnerable shopkeeper NPCs who will deal with anyone and won't lift a finger for any other reason, even if you're getting jumped while the trade window is open.

WoW couldn't live up to it for me because there was none of the danger of losing items when getting PKed, nor the reward of mega loot for jumping other players. That and the level grind, until later the average level in AC was pretty low, and you could kill people 30+ levels higher than you in the right circumstances, so it was pretty fair for PvP. In WoW you got hopelessly outclassed by another player at some point if you weren't within 2 levels of the zone you were in, and you meant nothing if you weren't max level: NOT a good way to run a MMO.

Personally I'm waiting for Darkfall online, it's looks to be a more organized, large scale PvP game in the vein of UO. It's been in development for a LONG time but it seems beta is approaching.

 

[Kurrosh]

Maybe so. However, it did nothing very new, and everything it did pvp-wise was again based off UO DAoC or the others. As I said with WoW, it just perfected them, but as WoW got more people, it can be considered more of a success. Also, WoW has truly made unique raids, 40-man raids and 40-man PvP. So I would not call AC a landmark, as much as I would call WoW. All WoW did was perfect the others, it didn't come up with anything very important that was new, except for really boosted how well the game would run, and graphics, etc. and in doing so, for the new games to be a success, and come near to WoW the new games must be revolutionary, or perfected.

-Kurrosh

 

[TFMTASAD]

There is a "Before WoW" and an "after WoW".

The game is not groundbreaking and not original in any way. But WoW made the genre mainstream which is quite a feat if you ask me. Before WoW, a couple of games had a good success but never close to what WoW is achieving right now. As far as I am concerned, it is really not my favorite of mine. I played a couple of months but I never liked the feel of it. My all time favorite was no doubt Everquest. Still, I have to recognize WoW as the king of MMO, everyone either plays or know someone who plays the damn game. I don't play WoW anymore, but my wife still does, my kid too and hell, even my mother (64 years old) plays the damn game!!! That's impressive and unseen before in any other MMO.

 

[kkat69]

There is a "Before WoW" and an "after WoW".

The game is not groundbreaking and not original in any way. But WoW made the genre mainstream which is quite a feat if you ask me. Before WoW, a couple of games had a good success but never close to what WoW is achieving right now. As far as I am concerned, it is really not my favorite of mine. I played a couple of months but I never liked the feel of it. My all time favorite was no doubt Everquest. Still, I have to recognize WoW as the king of MMO, everyone either plays or know someone who plays the damn game. I don't play WoW anymore, but my wife still does, my kid too and hell, even my mother (64 years old) plays the damn game!!! That's impressive and unseen before in any other MMO.

Something most people don't realize, and a good point you make. If I may elaborate a bit.

They see WoW and go WOW this is revolutionary. All WoW did was take (as with any MMO after the MMO explosion) existing ideas, expand or duplicate them with a genre specific twist, and built it on an existing lore that was perfect for an MMO. That's what makes WoW so successful. It has a good engine and based it on an existing game lore that has been around since 386 computers, a lore people were familiar with.

Ultima Online certainly brought the MMO to the worlds eyes, and Everquest brought it to the other worlds eyes. Explain please? Sure I will, Ultima Online was a diablo like game, your looking down on an angle, certainly not what a FPS (first person shooter) would want to play, so along comes Everquest, the next big thing so to speak and it brought a style of gaming that appealed to the more graphic demanding gamer.

Those 2 IMO (as well as other not so well known) layed the groundwork for Blizzard to create the behemoth that is WoW. I don't include AC, AOC, or SWG, et al in there (Asheron's Call and Age of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies) because those 3 and others were in development at the same time as WoW. Some released earlier than WoW but most MMO's in the explosion were all in development.

 

[Pressure]

Those 2 IMO (as well as other not so well known) layed the groundwork for Blizzard to create the behemoth that is WoW. I don't include AC, AOC, or SWG, et al in there (Asheron's Call and Age of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies) because those 3 and others were in development at the same time as WoW. Some released earlier than WoW but most MMO's in the explosion were all in development.

Dark Age of Camelot were released in late 2001.

World of Warcraft came over 3 years later.

 

[Kurrosh]

Kkat69 I agree. All WoW did was take ideas from the other games, and add their own interesting lore and put it on their engine. They also, however, perfected it. Graphics were improved, it was easy to use/make add-on's and the UI(User interface) is the most simple UI i have ever used in an MMO. Even now, playing AoC I wish the UI was similar to it, and they just took what other games had, but they spent years to make it perfect, they didn't rush anything/

TBC screwed it all up 'apparently'. I never played pre-tbc but from what I heard is that everyone much preferred the 60s.I have heard hundreds of people say they think TBC sucked, or knew people who quit (only rarely) because of it. I never once heard anyone say 'TBC rocks!' which is why I stick by that it ruined the game.

-Kurrosh

 

[TSE]

EverQuest without a doubt is the most revolutionary. Sure, there were other MMORPG's before it, but they weren't really "Massive". EverQuest added the RPG form into it also as it made it seem like a first person in a huge world. It was great... I played it from 1999 to about 2005, even though th last 4 years of the game were rough because the new expansions added some distasteful content.

EverQuest till the second expansion is considered by many people the most adventurous, most challenging, and best MMORPG ever created. Hell, there is a set of developers coding the whole original game with the first two expansions for free because they like it so much at http://www.eqclassic.org! They are even running a server for free for players to play on because they want people to experience the game nobody will ever experience again from Sony. People are that dedicated to bringing back the best mmo, ever.

 

[katorga]

Eq

UO was good, but I hated the graphics.

EQ through the 3rd expansion was the best MMO I've ever played. The handcrafted dungeons were tremendous. I still fire up my account periodically to play. EQ works just fine on my MBP and bootcamp.

WoW never held my interest as much as EQ did, but then again I was a lot older once I got to WoW.

 

[Huntn]

TBC screwed it all up 'apparently'. I never played pre-tbc but from what I heard is that everyone much preferred the 60s.I have heard hundreds of people say they think TBC sucked, or knew people who quit (only rarely) because of it. I never once heard anyone say 'TBC rocks!' which is why I stick by that it ruined the game.

-Kurrosh

I wonder if it was because TBC was just more of the same?

 

[Huntn]

EverQuest without a doubt is the most revolutionary. Sure, there were other MMORPG's before it, but they weren't really "Massive". EverQuest added the RPG form into it also as it made it seem like a first person in a huge world. It was great... I played it from 1999 to about 2005, even though th last 4 years of the game were rough because the new expansions added some distasteful content.

EverQuest till the second expansion is considered by many people the most adventurous, most challenging, and best MMORPG ever created. Hell, there is a set of developers coding the whole original game with the first two expansions for free because they like it so much at http://www.eqclassic.org! They are even running a server for free for players to play on because they want people to experience the game nobody will ever experience again from Sony. People are that dedicated to bringing back the best mmo, ever.

This sounds really interesting. How solo friendly is it?

 

[martychang]

Umm, what? Asheron's Call was released in 1999 only a few months after Everquest, beta was out in late 1998. That also means it was pre-DAoC. What's all this "AC was in development at the same time as WoW" stuff? You might be confusing it with Asheron's Call 2, which everyone playing AC knew was going to be bad(which is why it folded in a couple years and AC is still running today).

WoW also didn't perfect the genre(See: vastly inferior PvP). The PvE is probably closer to perfected though.

AC isn't necessarily revolutionary, but it did one thing that no other MMO has done to my knowledge: total free-for-all. Even UO had guards in town to break up violence, games like WoW have racial factions and such. Asheron's Call was anyone can kill anyone, and only other players are there to stop it. The non-monster NPCs are totally neutral, pacifists, and immune to attack.

The atmosphere it created has never been matched: One where you're constantly threatened, rotate your camera 180 degrees whenever you use a NPC vendor, inspect every player you see from the furthest distance possible, and if you're too jumpy, accidently kill guildmates just because you saw a player and wanted the jump. You're afraid to go to town, unless you're looking for a fight. You seek out unpopular dungeons just to avoid people(and there are still people there).

Another thing that I don't think any other MMO has done was the way guilds worked. You swear allegiance to a person, they are your patron and you are their vassal. When your patron swears allegiance to someone in the same manner, a guild(called a monarchy) is formed. In essence, guilds are formed from chains of direct, personal relationships. You don't need permission to induct new guild members, they just need to be lower level than you. If you become dissatisfied you can break off your branch of the guild and be the new GM. I seem to remember hearing DAoC was sort of like this, can anyone comment? Regardless, this is the best guild system ever: one that truly capitalizes on the social aspect of MMOs.

 

[PcBgone]

Ive played WoW, and I havent been all that impressed. I love AO(anarchy online) though. It brings something different to the table which was new at the time. Crafts. When your not doing missions or raids, you can build different things.

I still have the urge to play AO after all these years. It came out I believe in 2001 or so...

 

[Huntn]

http://www.eqclassic.org

There is just a cartoon at this link... Are they out of business?

 

[Cander]

Ive played WoW, and I havent been all that impressed. I love AO(anarchy online) though. It brings something different to the table which was new at the time. Crafts. When your not doing missions or raids, you can build different things.

I still have the urge to play AO after all these years. It came out I believe in 2001 or so...

AO was and still is the best MMO experience I ever had. The mission system I am sure was a big innovation. Really the first instance of instances I think in an MMO. Fun classes, very open non-linear world (well until Shadowlands), best skill system ever, extremely complex implant system, Yalmahas ( ), and a great community. I miss it. When they put in the new graphics engine, I am going to fire it up again.

 

[Rivix]

No Guild Was love, eh?

Well I'm going to vouch for it. Guild Wars takes the compulsory grinding for xp and items to a lower level, making the playing field more equal when you play PvP. Because most characters can achieve the max level (20) fairly quickly, mastering skills is a vital part of the game to get the upper-hand. It makes the game more skill and strategy based then other games where the higher level wins.

Plus no monthly fee! And the main campaigns are great fun! Only problem is that its for Windows only, and it doesn't look like GuildWars2 will change that.

I admit that it might not have the same lasting appeal as others, but you get well more than you pay for.

 

[Cander]

No Guild Wars love because it is loose on the rules that make something an MMO. It just doesn't qualify as one is most people's minds.