Large internal hard drives won't mount after restart in Mac Pro 5,1

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by amarmot, Mar 30, 2018.

  1. amarmot macrumors newbie

    amarmot

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    #1
    This post closely follows a previous ASC thread:

    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8338922

    I have had a very similar problem with a Mac Pro 5,1 (2012), running either Yosemite (10.10.5) or High Sierra (10.13.3) off of SSD or HDD. Upon restart or option-restart, the system will not mount the following disks:

    6TB WD Black WD6002FZWZ

    8TB HGST He8 HUH728080ALE600

    8TB WD Red (white labeled OEM version WD80EMAZ)

    Other details:

    - On cold boot or option-boot, all of these drives will mount, and all the drives work great.

    - The effect is the same with three different systems: Yosemite HFS on SATA 3 sled, High Sierra APFS on PCI card, and Yosemite on a startup volume partition on the WD Red.

    - None of the hard drives are formatted involving a Logical Volume Group (this was a red herring in the ASC thread).

    - One of the effected drives (WD Red) has a 2TB partition with Yosemite on it. Upon option-restart, this partition shows up on the option screen and is selectable. If selected, the system gets part way through startup, then a grey circle with line through it appears. This would seem to imply the problem is not a time-out waiting for the drives to spin up as has been suggested in the ASC thread. Rather something is causing the drives to shut down or unmount part way through startup (including the startup partition).

    - 2 of the 3 drives are SATA 3.3 compliant and have a remote power-off on pin 3. But in all cases pin 3 is manually taped off (and the problem does not occur on cold restart), so I am sure it is not a PWDIS issue.

    Anyone know what causes this, or have a workaround? It's important that I be able to remotely restart this machine, and not be limited to cold rebooting manually in person each time a restart is required.
     
  2. bsbeamer macrumors 68000

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    #2
  3. amarmot thread starter macrumors newbie

    amarmot

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    #3
    I don't think this is related to the SATA 3.3 problem, as 1) some of the drives in question predate SATA 3.3 PWDIS feature, and 2) I have already identified the ones that do have PWDIS and have disabled pin 3 with tape. Also, the problem does not occur on cold reboot. This is inconsistent with PWDIS issue, which affects both restart and reboot.
     
  4. h9826790 macrumors G4

    h9826790

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    #4
    I know it sounds completely irrelevant, but my WD Red 8T had this issue before (only in High Sierra). And eventually fixed by disabling TRIM (APFS). After I downgrade to HFS+, I re-enable TRIM again, and my WD Red 8TB still mount on every warm restart. Really strange, and can't figure out the logic.
     
  5. amarmot thread starter macrumors newbie

    amarmot

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    #5
    This problem seems to effect 10.10.5 and 10.13.3 equally, and does not matter if startup disk is SSD or HDD, of if the startup system is one of the affected HDDs or not. So I don't think it can be TRIM related.
     
  6. h9826790 macrumors G4

    h9826790

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    #6
    I know. But all I can do is just share my own experience.

    For me, this bug only happen in High Sierra.

    And only affect me with APFS + TRIM.

    But obviously in your case, APFS is completely out of equation because it happen since Yosemite.

    And in my case, HFS+ TRIM also no problem.

    So, TRIM can't be the ultimate reason.

    But I wonder if other hardware differences may make the different.

    e.g. Because of my hardware combination require more time to initialise. So that the cMP has just enough time to detect my WD 8T during a warm restart. And in my case, TRIM / APFS make a very very little time difference on the initial boot. So, by changing file system or TRIM status, this "fix" my issue.

    Of course, this is pure theory, 100% no prove.
     
  7. AidenShaw macrumors P6

    AidenShaw

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    #7
    +100

    If TRIM settings affect spinners - Apple needs to clean house in their OSX engineering and QA teams. Fire all the managers, and promote engineers.
     
  8. amarmot thread starter macrumors newbie

    amarmot

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    #8
    In your case, did you already eliminate the possibility of power shutoff due to power on pin 3?
     
  9. h9826790 macrumors G4

    h9826790

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    #9
    I didn’t do anything to the pin 3.
     
  10. bsbeamer macrumors 68000

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    #10
    I was having several issues with HGST and the pin fix. Removed the tape and everything was fine, except restart issue with not showing drive. Ended up putting in an external enclosure more recently.
     
  11. amarmot thread starter macrumors newbie

    amarmot

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    #11
    My next experiment is to modify the wiring to the power bus on the internal SATA ports, attempting to duplicate the configuration of modern SATA 3.3 enclosures. If that doesn't do it it means a software bug, which I am not in a position to do much about...
    --- Post Merged, Mar 31, 2018 ---
    More data from verbose startup. When the machine is cold booted off a system that resides on one of the affected drives, the logs show a number of lines related to finding and mounting of the HDD startup volume. These lines are missing when the machine is warm restarted. Also, physical examination of the drive during restart shows that it has power and is spinning the entire time. So it's not getting powered off. Even though the disk appears in the startup menu, it's a failure to mount, not a loss of mount.
     
  12. h9826790, Mar 31, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2018

    h9826790 macrumors G4

    h9826790

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    #12
    I am quite sure it's software issue, because warm restart in Windows has zero issue on the same cMP with the same HDD, always shows up.

    And I didn't do anything on the hardware but just disable TRIM or roll back to HFS+, then the issue is fixed. (I know TRIM should do nothing to the HDD, but it definitely doing something to the OS. And that may indirectly fixed the issue in my case)

    Also, in my case, the HDD only doesn't mount properly in High Sierra after warm restart, but work flawless on any other OS. For me, that means HS has some software issue on this matter.
     
  13. amarmot thread starter macrumors newbie

    amarmot

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    #13
    I can confirm that in my case, restart on Windows volume does not have this problem - the same drives mount in Windows (either cold boot or warm restart). So I agree it's an issue in the OS.
     
  14. Zwhaler macrumors 604

    Zwhaler

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    Jun 10, 2006
    #14
    I'm also having issues with this.

    Mac Pro 5,1 running 10.13.4.
    I have 4 internal drives: SSD (boot), HGST Deskstar 4TB, 4TB, and 6TB. The Boot drives works, and one of the 4TBs mounts when I RESTART, but the other two are nowhere to be found.

    Cold boot, they all show up.

    The threads were a bit confusing to me. Any way to fix this? Tape method seemed to be hit or miss. Any updated word on this problem within the larger community?
     
  15. woodenbrain macrumors member

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    Sep 2, 2009
    #15
    Which one of those HDDs does mount? The 6TB one or one of the 2 4TB ones? What's the model number of the one that does mount?

    Looking to get a 3TB or 4TB drive that will work without this issue! Any ideas?
     
  16. Zwhaler, May 23, 2018
    Last edited: May 23, 2018

    Zwhaler macrumors 604

    Zwhaler

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    #16
    HGST Deskstar 4TB Mounts. It won't do you much good though because there is another HGST Deskstar 4TB in there that doesn't mount upon restart. They all mount on a shut down and turn on though. So I can't pin it on the model drive as the culprit.
     
  17. spacedesign911 macrumors regular

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    #17
    Watching this thread in the hope to find a drive bigger than 4TB that works!
     
  18. crjackson2134 macrumors 68040

    crjackson2134

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    #18
    Yeah, me too. I want to get a couple of 8GB drives for Archival purposes, but the mounting thing is bothering me. I may just fill-er-up with SSDs and get a couple of 8GB USB3 drives. I just hate have more stuff setting around and plugged into a power brick. I prefer it all enclosed and tidy, but I'll do what ever it takes I guess.
     
  19. bsbeamer macrumors 68000

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    #19
    That is basically the exact approach I've turned to after several HGST drives wouldn't mount "properly" on system restart. Tape pin fix did not work properly for this drive and actually interfered with the proper power cycles, quickly heating up and likely reducing the drive's lifespan. Mounted the drive with the OWC sled with modified screw pattern.

    The internal 5,1 case is now filled with SSDs in PCIe and SATA slots. Have a USB3 bare drive dock for the "internal" drives that I'm still using and a slew of USB3 external drives for archives, backups, etc. If you go with this setup and have a UPS battery backup, just make sure to plug drive power into the UPS as well.

    Another benefit of removing spinning HDDs from inside the system - much lower system temperatures and lower total power draw. For an aging machine, this may help extend the life a bit longer.
     
  20. crjackson2134 macrumors 68040

    crjackson2134

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    #20
    It's a PITA... I'm thinking these drives just draw too much power on restart, and on cold boot you get a burst startup power that kicks them into gear. Just a wild idea, but it wouldn't surprise me. I'm pretty darn sure this problem is related to power rather than anything else.
     
  21. bsbeamer macrumors 68000

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    Sep 19, 2012
    #21
    I've suspected it's because they are really designed for NAS and server use, but it is power related some how. They actually may consume LESS power once spinning (than previous generation drives). The system typically may see that as a signal to not send power on restart, so they are not "kicked" as other drives are.

    A firmware update could/should/would fix this, but doubt it'll ever happen. External enclosures are a more reliable solution, or deal with full shutdown and cold boot.
     
  22. crjackson2134 macrumors 68040

    crjackson2134

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    #22
    No doubt, but there should be some flexibility on the part of the drive makers whereby an included utility could change this function if that's all it needs.

    I remember some years back having to change some HD internal settings with either a Seagate or WD utility they provided at the time. Don't see why they couldn't do that now.

    I guess they think regulars USERS don't need that much storage space inside a tower.
     
  23. Zwhaler macrumors 604

    Zwhaler

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    #23
    Again, the 6TB HGST Deskstar does mount on a cold boot.
     
  24. woodenbrain macrumors member

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    #24
    are there any 3TB or 4TB HDD drives that mount on cold boot and don't need tape pin (attempted) fix?
     
  25. h9826790 macrumors G4

    h9826790

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    #25
    WD 4TB Red
     

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