MacPro 5.1 & high capacity hard drives

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by JM-Prod, May 9, 2016.

  1. ZombiePhysicist, Oct 5, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017

    ZombiePhysicist macrumors 6502

    ZombiePhysicist

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    #26
  2. h9826790, Oct 5, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017

    h9826790 macrumors G3

    h9826790

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    #27
    Thanks for the report, we definitely need a database about which high capacity HDD can work with cMP flawlessly.

    My WD 8TB Red now is a bit strange. I bet it's software issue.

    It always shows up in Windows 10.

    It always shows up in MacOS on a cold boot.

    But it also always disappear in a warm restart to MacOS (if restart to Windows, the HDD will re-appear and work flawlessly).

    There was no issue when I install this HDD back into Mar 2017 (whatever the current OS by that moment). And this issue seems suddenly appear since 10.12.6. And even now on 10.13.

    SMART check is fine. Performance is good. Really have no idea what'w wrong or if there is any work around. At this moment, all I can do is never do a warm restart to MacOS, but full shutdown + cold boot.

    WD Red 4TB and 6TB both still works flawlessly. However, the 8TB is definitely much faster.
     
  3. ZombiePhysicist macrumors 6502

    ZombiePhysicist

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    #28
    That is weird H. Well I've cold and warm restarted it the machine a few times. No issue with the Seagate 10TB Iron Wolf or this 12TB Seagate (so far, knock wood)
     
  4. JulianBoolean, Oct 5, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017

    JulianBoolean macrumors regular

    JulianBoolean

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    #29
    FWIW, cMP 5.1 user here ...

    I have three HGST He8 drives, (HUH728080ALE600) all running smoothly without issue (Yosemite through Sierra) inside my OWC Qx2 external 4 drive box. The Qx2 can be connected via eSata, and allows for hardware raid, but I am using them as independent Time Machines, alternating every other hour. I rotate one to my safe deposit box once per month, with two local.

    Also have three HGST Ultrastar 6TB drives. These are RAID5 via SoftRaid. I've used these drives running with SoftRaid versions 5.1 through 5.6.3, and save for one minor glitch, no issues at all. The one issue is that my internal RAID5 drives don't show up to the desktop on a quick re-start. I need to full power down, then full power up.

    Also, these links might be useful

    https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-failure-stats-q2-2017/
    https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-failure-rates-q3-2016/
    https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-failure-rates-q2-2016/
     
  5. h9826790 macrumors G3

    h9826790

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    #30
    Just get a reply from Apple, they decided that my “HDD missing issue” is duplicated with another report (from another Apple user). So, obviously I am not the only one, and they know it already.
     
  6. FrancoisC macrumors 6502

    FrancoisC

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    #31
    There is one way to make these non working drive work, but of course it breaks the warranty, so not good :/

    For those who wants to know: cut the connection of pin 3 the on the power side of the HDD sata connection. It will cut the 3.3v that the Mac Pro send and that the HDD thinks is a "reboot" signal sent to the drive.

    Manufacturers could fix it easily by including a jumper that when removed or put elsewhere does the same thing (open or close the pin 3/3.3v/reset pin)
     
  7. Auggie macrumors regular

    Auggie

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    Jan 21, 2017
    #32
    The problem with restarts with some of the newer, larger capacity drives, appears to be related to some firmware setting of these drives (which as far as I know, can not be changed by the end-user as it is permanently set by the manufacturer), cMP 5,1's, and newer versions of OS X. One post suggests it's the TLER setting, though from what limited understanding I have of TLER, this setting is for error recovery and wouldn't be expected to affect restarts, but there may more involvement with TLER in warm starts that I'm not aware of.

    Cold starts (starting up from a complete power down) works fine.

    I only recently discovered this issue with new 6TB WD Blacks which was the first time I used these drives in my cMP. This also appears to affect 6TB Gold, but my 6TB Red and 6TB Red Pro's both work just fine with no problems with restarts:

    Problems with WD 6TB Blacks in 5,1

    There is a link in my thread to the supposed culprit.

    I have 8TB Red's in my NAS but the next one I get I'll test in the cMP for this restart issue.
     
  8. guin macrumors newbie

    guin

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    #33
    I'm seeing the same exact behavior on everything you mentioned with my 5,1 Mac Pro with a WD 8TB Red.
     
  9. dprevett1 macrumors newbie

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    Mar 19, 2015
    #34
    I purchased a pair of HGST Deskstar NAS 6TB drives, model no. HDN726060ALE615 and part no. 0F26700 to replace a couple of failing drives in my 5,1. After receiving the OWC sleds, I installed one tonight and discovered that it exhibits the failure to mount after restart problem. After some research, I found an apple support community thread https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7132585?start=90&tstart=0 which terminates in the same Power Disable Feature discussion as mentioned in post #17 of this thread. My plan is to use the 6TB drives for data only, not booting, so the need to power them up from cold rather than restart, although inconvenient, is at least tolerable.
     
  10. Auggie macrumors regular

    Auggie

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    Jan 21, 2017
    #35
    Since I thought WD Red Pro 6TB's were Good-To-Go, I went ahead a ordered another.... Wrong Answer.

    To my dismay, the newer Red Pro 6TB's, model WD6002's exhibit this restart problem. It seems only the older WD6001 models are the only ones that don't suffer the restart headache.

    And I can't find the older models anywhere with absolute certainty they are the older model.
     
  11. h9826790 macrumors G3

    h9826790

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    #36
    Just found that disable TRIM in High Sierra can fix my "HDD not show up" issue.

    I tried disable TRIM to see if that make any difference in Finder (my Finder occasionally has micro freeze in 10.13.1), and after the system restart. I realise my 8TB HDD also show up correctly. So, obviously TRIM + APFS in High Sierra not only affect the boot time, but something more.
     
  12. Magaman macrumors regular

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    Aug 14, 2009
    #37
    So High Sierra and disabling TRIM fixed this issue of the drive vanishing? I recently added two 10TB WD Red drives to my older Pro and this morning woke up to both missing. The machine is only accessible remotely so I just did a reboot and that didn't fix it. It's currently powered down and will do a cold boot when I get home from work. I'm running Sierra, and since the machine just acts as a Plex server I wasn't in a rush to upgrade since things were working before the drive upgrade.
     
  13. h9826790 macrumors G3

    h9826790

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    #38
    Yes, in fact, it's completely fixed now. Even though re-enable TRIM again.

    I had this issue for more than a year. Never fixed. But since the slow boot issue in High Sierra, I disable TRIM. And the HDD work flawlessly straight away.

    I did multiple TRIM enable / disable these 2 week. And I am very sure on the first TRIM re-enable test, the HDD disappear after reboot. But when I did it few more times. I suddenly realise the HDD won't disappear anymore. Any now work completely flawless.

    Not sure if it's OS update fixed it, or because the multiple TRIM enable / disable accidentally permanently fix it.
     
  14. Magaman macrumors regular

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    Aug 14, 2009
    #39
    Which program are you using to enable/disable TRIM? it's strange that thisis even impacting the drives since these aren't SSDs. I wouldn't be too bothered by this issue, but I run the machine headless, so just a pain in the ass to have to go turn it back on manually to fix each time.
     
  15. h9826790 macrumors G3

    h9826790

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    #40
    Simply by running the trimforce command inside terminal
     
  16. Usabell macrumors newbie

    Usabell

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    Dec 16, 2017
    #41
    Hi Magaman, thanks for your contribution to this tired old problem. I've been in contact with WD support about this "vanishing drives after reboot" issue for like a year now, because I also got two of their 6TB Gold drives with the faulty firmware. They are not able to acknowledge that they are part of the problem and shift the whole blame to APple for some strange reason. Funnily enough, I've been using lots of WD drives in the past and none of them had these problems. I tried to tell them this for a long long time already and it grows tiresome.

    But great to hear you found a solution in Mac OS 10.13! Right now, I only have Mac OS 10.11 with me and I tried your solution with the trimforce command, but didn't get anywhere with it so far. Could you maybe explain in a bit more detail what you did to fix the issue? Did you disable TRIM while the WD drive in question was showing up on the desktop, or did you disable TRIM when it was already gone after a reboot? I can also try installing 10.13 on a secondary hard drive and see if that makes it work. Thanks for your input, I hope we can make a solution available for all affected users!
     
  17. h9826790 macrumors G3

    h9826790

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    #42
    When I run the trimforce disable command, the WD HDD was showing up on desktop. My problematic WD HDD's behaviour is very predictable. As long as I did a cold boot, it will show up. But if I did a warm restart, it won't show up (only in MacOS. In Windows, it ALWAYS show up. Therefore, it's 100% MacOS's problem in my case). It's been like that for more than a year.

    I didn't expect I can fix that, but on that day, I made a cold boot. The HDD was working properly. And then I ran the trimforce disable command (the intention was try to fix the slow boot issue in 10.13). That command will restart the machine (after confirmation). And after that restart, the problematic WD HDD work flawlessly until now.
     
  18. reader50 macrumors newbie

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    Apr 9, 2003
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    California
    #43
    The trimforce tip did not work for me. No change in behavior. Tested under 10.13.2, large HGST drives still mount only if you've cold-booted.

    I did come up with a better answer on the pin-3 (play-dead) issue. I did a writeup with pics at my regular digs, but the gist is: use Scotch tape to cover Pin 3 on the drive. It's easy, works like a charm, and doesn't void your warranty.

    [​IMG]

    The idea came from something I vaguely remember from the AGP days. How to modify a 4x/8x card to work in a 2x slot. (the AGP fix required cutting a slot in the card edge, and taping over a pin.)
     
  19. dprevett1 macrumors newbie

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    Mar 19, 2015
    #44
    Just did a warm restart after today's High Sierra beta release. The tape-over-pin 3 trick didn't work with my two HGST Deskstar NAS 6TB drives (model no. HDN726060ALE615 and part no. 0F26700) - they didn't show up after the install. After shutdown and a cold restart, they showed up on the desktop
     
  20. h9826790 macrumors G3

    h9826790

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    #45
    Try disable TRIM
     
  21. AidenShaw macrumors P6

    AidenShaw

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    #46
    As a test?

    Disabling TRIM otherwise would be the worst possible suggestion for some with an SSD/controller that supports TRIM.

    The. Worst. Possible.
     
  22. h9826790, Jan 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018

    h9826790 macrumors G3

    h9826790

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    #47
    Not just test, but that actually fixed my "HDD not show up" issue in High Sierra. I don't like to disable TRIM as well. But this could be the work around at this moment. And if that doesn't help, he can turn TRIM back on straight away. Or decide if he prefer no TRIM, or no HDD after restart.

    TRIM in High Sierra is quite buggy (may be because with APFS). But disable TRIM fix 4 issues on my Mac.

    1) very slow boot (about 3min) on a SSD.
    2) Finder micro freeze.
    3) HDD not show up after restart.
    4) Multiple auto restart during boot

    I prefer keep it disable until Apple fix it.
     
  23. AidenShaw macrumors P6

    AidenShaw

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    #48
    Thanks for the explanation....
     
  24. h9826790 macrumors G3

    h9826790

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    #49
    Just try re-enable TRIM in latest build 10.13.2 (17C205). The HD actually able to show up now. Not sure if Apple fix the problem or the drill (disable -> re-enable) fix it.

    Slow boot still there.

    Didn’t see any auto restart during boot yet (I only install this update for 1hr. The only warm restart I did is for re-enabling TRIM. In the old test, this re-enable TRIM reboot will cause about 3 auto restart during boot. But not this time.

    However, slow boot still there. I didn’t time it, the feeling is not as slow as the previous (3min), but more like between 1.5 to 2min.

    Need more time to find out if Finder will micro freeze.

    If slow boot is the only issue. I can live with that. I boot less than once per day on average. And I can always disable TRIM for fast boot if I do some test require multiple reboot.
     
  25. reader50 macrumors newbie

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    Apr 9, 2003
    Location:
    California
    #50
    Yep, the tape-over-pin3 only addresses the SATA3.3 issue, which currently affects large HGST drives. Basically some 8TB models and larger. Your 6TB drive probably isn't affected by this issue.

    If your large drive isn't detected after a cold boot, do the pin-3 tape trick.

    If your large drive is detected after cold boots, but not restarts - try h9826790's trimforce tip, or use an external enclosure. No other solutions have turned up. Other than complaining to HGST and/or Apple of course.
     

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