Late 2013 RMBP 15 YELLOW SCREEN (updated)

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Timmy2013, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. Timmy2013, Nov 1, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2013

    Timmy2013 macrumors newbie

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    Apr 18, 2013
    #1
    Just got it today. What do you guys think? Exchange? Keep it?

    Left: 15 Macbook Pro Retina Haswell 2013
    Right: 15 Macbook Pro C2D 2009

    I've tried to calibrate the best I can for hours, and here you go the result.
    Honestly, I don't really see "big" difference. The 2013 model still shows "yellow and warm" compared to 2009 model.

    First two pictures were taken BEFORE calibration
    The last three were taken AFTER calibration (expert model)
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Moshe1010 macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    Yes. If you want the blue look, you need to calibrate to 5000K and above.
     
  3. Shmanky macrumors regular

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    Toronto
  4. aiyaaabatt macrumors 6502

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    Aug 25, 2013
    #5
    I would not call it normal. I've gone through five 15'' haswell rMBP, none of them were yellow like that, all of them were similar to the right side macbook.
     
  5. Timmy2013 thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Apr 18, 2013
    #6
    Surprisingly, the one on the left is a Samsung display. The one on the right is LG. It seems the screen of this generation is worse than last (samsung)

    ----------


    Really? I don't think it's that blue. It looked yellow when the "blue" one compared to 2012 retina.

    I guess I should wait? next batch?
     
  6. aiyaaabatt macrumors 6502

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    Aug 25, 2013
    #7
    the 15'' haswell that I'm using now is a samsung display. And I have another one same spec that is a samsung display, and my whites are white. It's not a bad batch, its a bad unit. Exchange it for another and chances are it will have much better whites.
     
  7. Shmanky macrumors regular

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    Toronto
    #8
    Timmy2013, when you compare your two machines side by side and you look at things like how Finder looks and how Safari looks and how photographs look, which one do you prefer: the yellow one or the blue one? Of course not considering resolution. Also try the recommendations in this thread about manual calibration and let us know about which display looks better after calibration. But if you bring in your yellow machine to an Apple store and compare your yellow machine with the in-store machines I expect that the in-store machines aren't yellow. I have a yellowed 2012 Retina MacBook Pro display as a replacement and Apple considers it normal and refuses to replace it. So if you don't like your yellowed display return it within 14 days.
     
  8. Timmy2013 thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Apr 18, 2013
    #9
    Yes, I will bring my old macbook pro to store and compare it...

    I have no idea right now. I mean, you guys are experts here, if you guys think that this unit is normal, then I will keep it. If not, I will just return it and wait for a few weeks.
     
  9. Apple fanboy macrumors P6

    Apple fanboy

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    Behind the Lens, UK
    #10
    Is it uniform all over? If so borrow or buy an i1 display Pro or other screen calibrator. Calibrate your screen and change the colour temperature to one you find more normal.
    If it's not uniform it is faulty and take it back.
     
  10. aiyaaabatt macrumors 6502

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    Aug 25, 2013
    #11
    Please return it... that display is hideously yellow. I have never seen one that yellow... and I am an apple reseller.
     
  11. Atomic Walrus macrumors 6502a

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    Sep 24, 2012
    #12
    You can fix the color temperature with calibration (even without a meter you can easily improve it), however if the screen is significantly far off of the desired white point you will compromise brightness in the process. The only way to make an LCD panel's white point cooler than its native temperature is for the panel to block some red and green light, reducing total output.

    Only displays with individual sub-pixel illumination can have their white balance changed without losing brightness (plasma, OLED) as it may be possible to increase the output of one color without altering anything else (assuming that color isn't already at its maximum possible output).

    If possible you'd prefer to have a panel that was close to the desired temperature on its own and only need to do minimal adjustment.
     
  12. raybies macrumors member

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    Jul 18, 2013
    #13
    Dude, just calibrate it to your liking.

    My new MBPr 2.6... has an LG screen and when I ran (3 times) Spyder 4 Pro... it became way more yellow... warmer.

    As long as you haven't got any weird uniformity issues you've got a good panel.
     
  13. Shmanky macrumors regular

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    Toronto
    #14
    I've seen some of your posts, Atomic Walrus, and you seem to know what you're talking about. So can you help me understand; why is Apple giving people these yellow displays? I know they're not all yellow because my first one wasn't yellow. Then I needed a replacement and my second and third ones were yellow on my 2012 15" Retina MacBook Pro. Why? Apple claims they are normal when I complain. Are they normal? I bought a Spyder4Elite and it helped reduce the yellowness a little bit but the colours are still muddy and unnatural. What's going on?
     
  14. raybies macrumors member

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    Jul 18, 2013
    #15
    BTW: The left looks about right to me... whereas the right isn't even white... it's a grey blue white... like my white shirt that got mixed in with the blacks last week.

    aiyaaabatt... is winding u up.
     
  15. Lone Deranger macrumors 65816

    Lone Deranger

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    London
    #16
    Timmy, did you even look at the link I posted? Run the calibration and all will be fine. You can calibrate these screens any which way you like.

    My screen is perfectly neutral, but I could easily make it look like either of yours by spending a couple of minutes with the calibration tool.

    Honestly... why people not bother with this and willingly put themselves through the pointless hassle of returning perfectly fine devices again and again is beyond me.

    edit: and no, you don't have to buy or borrow any special calibration hardware. Unless you plan on making a living doing colour sensitive work for print or other media, your eyes will be more than adequate.
     
  16. Shmanky macrumors regular

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    #17
    Do you have a display that starts by being yellow when you set it to Color LCD uncalibrated?
     
  17. Timmy2013 thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Apr 18, 2013
    #18
    Ok, I've seen the link and tried to calibrate myself. The screen is basically the same, nothing really changed. The screen is still yellow. I've also tried expert model, and it doesn't really help.
     
  18. Shmanky macrumors regular

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    Toronto
    #19
    You can try some colour profiles I made when I bought a Spyder4Elite to try to remove the yellow from my Retina display. This will give you an idea of what can be achieved by buying or borrowing a colour calibrator. It helps a little but I don't think the colours look as good as on the first display that came with my machine.


    http://merchv.com/Apple/Merch-Colour-Profiles.zip

    Edit: Put the .icc files in ~/Library/ColorSync/Profiles
     
  19. reery macrumors regular

    reery

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    Sep 18, 2012
    #20
    I've got this on my Samsung screen as well on the 2012 rMBP. I calibrated it therefore because it was annoying but after a week it turned out that the calibration was more annoying and when I disabled it the yellow tint was gone.

    So I think it will be gone in a few days. If you don't see at least a small improvement within days, return it.
     
  20. Shmanky macrumors regular

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    Toronto
    #21
    Have you brought your 2012 rMBP in to an Apple store to compare them side by side to confirm that the yellow tint indeed disappeared and it's not just that you don't notice it anymore?
     
  21. Timmy2013 thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Apr 18, 2013
    #22
    Yeah, I will use it for a few days and see how it goes.

    I've calibrated again, it looks whiter, but the yellowness is still there.
     
  22. toneLA macrumors regular

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    Jun 28, 2013
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    Beverly Hills, CA
    #23
    Um, never seen one that yellow either. At this point, whether it's uniform or not is irrelevant. At its native resolution it shouldn't be that yellow. The white point is totally off - by a huge margin. It's a faulty screen for sure.
     
  23. laurihoefs, Nov 2, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013

    laurihoefs macrumors 6502a

    laurihoefs

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    Mar 1, 2013
    #24
    Schmanky, it has been explained already in many of the threads you've replied to, and we even discussed this issue many times during the last six months.

    Display panels differ. Individual panels have different characteristics. That's why you need color profiles in the first place. The profiles Apple ships with the computers are general profiles, that are for a large patch of panels. The are not tailored for the specific panel in the specific computer. And because the panels vary, the profiles might be off in some cases.

    That's why you have calibrators. You make profiles that match the characteristics of the specific panel. The profiles bring the display close to some ideal, and whatever that is, is chosen during calibration.

    The profiles will mostly be usable on your screen only. Or one that happens to match it closely (like mine does).

    The profiles you have posted earlier (I have not yet checked the ones you posted above) are from a display that is originally fairly close to 6500K white point, and they change very little, as you had chosen 6500K as the target white point during calibration.

    6500K will appear yellow compared to many displays in their factory settings.

    6500K white point, 120cd/m^2 luminance and 2.2 gamma are often the default settings in calibration software. If you want to calibrate to a cooler white point, different gamma curve and different luminance, choose the, during calibration. Or better yet, measure the display you want to match, it's very easy with your Spyder4 Elite.
     
  24. Atomic Walrus, Nov 2, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013

    Atomic Walrus macrumors 6502a

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    #25
    The short answer is probably that it's not easy to make these panels. If these yellow displays are considered within spec, imagine the ones that didn't make the cut. If we could see the yield rates I'd have to assume it's considered impressive just to get a relatively uniform 15.4" 2880x1800 panel that's within ~700 units of the target white temp.

    I think Apple partially created this situation by asking for the production of 6500K displays (remember the early iPhone displays which were really blue, before Apple got serious about calibrated panels?). 6500K is a warmer white than people who've used cheaper, uncalibrated displays are used to seeing. Most display manufacturers will aim for a much cooler white because it convinces the user that their display is brighter or more vivid.

    Aiming cooler also allows a greater tolerance for screens coming out too warm without appearing yellow, which is aesthetically unpleasant:

    A combination of a 6500K target and wide manufacturing tolerances due to the pixel density of the displays leaves us with panels that might range from (just making up some numbers) 5800K to 7200K. The panels all the way down below 6000 are going to look really yellow, but the displays up around 7000 will just look "more white" to the average user so they never get reported as defective (no one without a meter is going to return their computer for having whites that are "too white").

    The question is why Apple doesn't demand better quality, and I'd say it's because at the moment their hands are tied; they can either buy Samsung's yellow panels, take their chances with LG's IR, or stop making rMBPs until Sharp can supply them with IGZO panels in the resolutions they want. Samsung's not a good company for Apple to be doing business with at this point (Apple clearly knows this) because of their direct rivalry in the same product spaces. To get conspiratorial for a moment, If you're Samsung would you potentially keep your best panel material for the products you manufacture instead of selling it to your directly rival?

    If we check out Anandtech's iPad Air review we see that the sample he got was actually right at that upper number (about 7200K). If we assume Apple is still targeting 6500K and hasn't bumped the target temperature a bit cooler to get away from the yellow then there could be 5800K iPads out there that would look quite yellow.

    Personally I'd happily pay more to get away from this temperature lottery thing, but Apple's sales numbers suggest that people are generally pretty happy with the results.

    You're right, and I'm sure that complicates this discussion since people who actually have 6500K panels are jumping on the yellow screen train, however a lot of these panels are well below 6500K (and it seems like more Samsung panels are below than above).

    I have a professionally-calibrated Kuro here (it's been a while but it shouldn't have drifted too far) which happens to match up pretty well with my Apple Cinema Display (and an iPhone 5s). Meanwhile the rMBP looks old-paper yellow when compared with all three. An eyeballed adjustment of the white point would suggest it has a native white in the neighborhood of 5900K. Maybe that's within tolerances (it shouldn't be, but that's an issue to take up with Samsung and LG), but if so they need to increase the target point.

    Most users aren't concerned with perfect color accuracy for precision image work. Those who are will need to calibrate anyway. What the average user is going to notice is that their screen looks like it has tobacco stains and that calibrating it out reduces their contrast. If Apple can't get these guys to lock down that range they need to move the target up to like 6800K just to avoid the pee-yellow displays.

    The uniformity is another issue, and not one you can calibrate your way out of. Some of these panels are like 6900 on one side, 6100 on the other. I guess that might just be the state of consumer IPS.

    Actually I probably could have just said that one sentence and avoided writing the whole mess above; uniformity issues and a wide temperature range define the state of high-density display manufacturing at the moment. I hope Apple is doing whatever they can to push for higher quality.
     

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