Late-2014 rMBP what will be new?

[mcarling]

I would be very surprised if Apple were drop the discrete GPU from the 2.3GHz 15" MBP during the expected 2014 minor refresh. The engineering costs are already sunk. I can only think of two scenarios where it might make sense:
- if MBPs were suffering problems from bad 750M chips (we would already know if it were the case, so we can rule it out)
- if Intel were to release updated Haswell chips suitable to replace the 4850HQ in the 2.3GHZ MBP with a chip with much improved graphics. However, that is the one Haswell chip used in a MBP for which Intel have already released a replacement (the 2.4GHz 4860HQ) and there is no great improvement in the graphics.

So, I'm confident that any minor refresh of the 2.3GHz 15" MBP in 2014 would continue to use the 750M.

 

[chelch]

My hunch is that we will see the next "iteration" of MacBook line introduced at WWDC in June, whatever they are. That is only 3 months away.

I don't understand why people think Apple is waiting until September or later to refresh them...it will be June and soon.

There's definitely potential for WWDC to be huge this year. Everything except the Mac Pro could see a refresh or redesign. It's going to be interesting.

EDIT: I forgot to add the rMBP likely won't see an update before September because there's only 1 Intel chip coming May 11th that's a direct replacement for one of the rMBP chips. The others are probably coming June - August.

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So, I'm confident that any minor refresh of the 2.3GHz 15" MBP in 2014 would continue to use the 750M.

Please look at Apple's website. The pages about the rMBP and iMac use words like "faster, more powerful, high performance, packed into the slimmest _____ yet"

Where does it say "good enough, cost efficient, last year's tech" ???

When they refresh the rMBP in the summer/fall they will include the latest tech as they have every time they've updated a lineup, so I'm confident that it will include the 850m.

 

[john123]

Let's see what they release next, and let the looser acknowledge they were wrong. I'm game if you are.

You misread what I stated. I stated that a big performance gap does not make inclusion of a dGPU a certainty because there are a number of other (more important) business considerations. I did not say, "There will definitely be a dGPU" because making a deterministic statement about something that is inherently probabilistic would be stupid.

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Please look at Apple's website. The pages about the rMBP and iMac use words like "faster, more powerful, high performance, packed into the slimmest _____ yet"

Where does it say "good enough, cost efficient, last year's tech" ???

When they refresh the rMBP in the summer/fall they will include the latest tech as they have every time they've updated a lineup, so I'm confident that it will include the 850m.

You are confusing marketing language with the business decision. The two are unrelated functions. Here, marketing produces language and collateral around the stuff that product development creates. And, for obvious reasons, marketing puts those decisions in the best light, even if the decisions aren't optimal for the consumer.

Also, your statement that they have included "the latest tech as they have every time they've updated a lineup" is factually inaccurate. Not sure where you got that idea, but Apple has frequently not put latest and greatest stuff in, especially where graphics go. It's been this way for years and years.

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I would be very surprised if Apple were drop the discrete GPU from the 2.3GHz 15" MBP during the expected 2014 minor refresh. The engineering costs are already sunk. I can only think of two scenarios where it might make sense:
- if MBPs were suffering problems from bad 750M chips (we would already know if it were the case, so we can rule it out)
- if Intel were to release updated Haswell chips suitable to replace the 4850HQ in the 2.3GHZ MBP with a chip with much improved graphics. However, that is the one Haswell chip used in a MBP for which Intel have already released a replacement (the 2.4GHz 4860HQ) and there is no great improvement in the graphics.

So, I'm confident that any minor refresh of the 2.3GHz 15" MBP in 2014 would continue to use the 750M.

Your logic here is very strong, especially given that a CPU upgrade would be a simple drop-in replacement. I think that keeping the 750M in this year's minor bump is probably a 50% probability or better.

 

[chelch]

You are confusing marketing language with the business decision. The two are unrelated functions. Here, marketing produces language and collateral around the stuff that product development creates. And, for obvious reasons, marketing puts those decisions in the best light, even if the decisions aren't optimal for the consumer.

Also, your statement that they have included "the latest tech as they have every time they've updated a lineup" is factually inaccurate. Not sure where you got that idea, but Apple has frequently not put latest and greatest stuff in, especially where graphics go. It's been this way for years and years.

Well maybe I'm confused, maybe not. I've spent some time look at the various CPUs Apple has used over the last few years and took note of when Intel listed them as released. You're correct that Apple rarely uses the "greatest" tech, but I said latest. And if some of the chips are 2 quarters old before Apple includes them and some people think they're not the "latest" any more then fine. I expect the mac mini to use 2 cpus from Q2'13 and one from Q4'13 so what does that mean? I don't know, I'm confused. But I certainly didn't mean most powerful GPUs available.

Apple has developed a price model for each product and the components have to fit that model. Apple uses the latest components that fit that model.

 

[psychedelia]

Here's to hoping they fix the un-uniform yellow screen issue.

 

[john123]

Well maybe I'm confused, maybe not. I've spent some time look at the various CPUs Apple has used over the last few years and took note of when Intel listed them as released. You're correct that Apple rarely uses the "greatest" tech, but I said latest. And if some of the chips are 2 quarters old before Apple includes them and some people think they're not the "latest" any more then fine. I expect the mac mini to use 2 cpus from Q2'13 and one from Q4'13 so what does that mean? I don't know, I'm confused. But I certainly didn't mean most powerful GPUs available.

Apple has developed a price model for each product and the components have to fit that model. Apple uses the latest components that fit that model.

CPUs are GPUs are vastly different ballgames. The consensus among analysts is that Apple likely gets some pretty sweet deals from Intel, due to the cross-marketing relevance there. (This is also pretty obvious; otherwise, the decision to couple the Iris Pro chips with a dGPU in October would have been insane for cost reasons.)

A recent case in point: last year on April 1, laptops began shipping from ASUS and Lenovo with GeForce 700M chips that had been formally announced at the start of the year. Apple elected to release a paltry 0.1Ghz CPU speed bump only upgrade on February 13. There are actually better examples in the last few years (e.g., no date gap whatsoever, bigger performance differences), but I picked this one for its recency and its relevance (given that it's the exact same product).

If you want to hope for an 850M, that's fine. Selfishly, I'd love to see it. The reason I'm commenting is that I think it's far, far, far from a sure thing...and I hope users here don't convince themselves that it's a sure thing. That's a recipe for disappointment and a flurry of angry, "WHY HAS APPLE DONE THIS TO US?" posts. Yes, I know, people on Macrumors would never say such a thing...

 

[MacDevMike]

CPUs are GPUs are vastly different ballgames. The consensus among analysts is that Apple likely gets some pretty sweet deals from Intel, due to the cross-marketing relevance there. (This is also pretty obvious; otherwise, the decision to couple the Iris Pro chips with a dGPU in October would have been insane for cost reasons.)



A recent case in point: last year on April 1, laptops began shipping from ASUS and Lenovo with GeForce 700M chips that had been formally announced at the start of the year. Apple elected to release a paltry 0.1Ghz CPU speed bump only upgrade on February 13. There are actually better examples in the last few years (e.g., no date gap whatsoever, bigger performance differences), but I picked this one for its recency and its relevance (given that it's the exact same product).



If you want to hope for an 850M, that's fine. Selfishly, I'd love to see it. The reason I'm commenting is that I think it's far, far, far from a sure thing...and I hope users here don't convince themselves that it's a sure thing. That's a recipe for disappointment and a flurry of angry, "WHY HAS APPLE DONE THIS TO US?" posts. Yes, I know, people on Macrumors would never say such a thing...

This is a realistic perspective. And the delay for them releasing the 750 was surprising to me as most companies move faster then that. However, they don't ship nearly as much volume as Apple so perhaps it takes Apple more time. Hard to speculate on how they make decisions over there sometimes.

Apple typically doesn't go for the leading edge on performance, but I must admit the October update was impressive. PCI-E ssd's in the MBP are almost twice as fast as the competition, AC networking, and the 4850hq (and especially the 4960hq) are some of the fastest mobile iron that Intel has available. Keeping my fingers crossed that they do something soon with the 750, as it was almost identical to the 650. Barefeats has it as literally one fps faster then the 650 on most titles.

 

[chelch]

CPUs are GPUs are vastly different ballgames. The consensus among analysts is that Apple likely gets some pretty sweet deals from Intel, due to the cross-marketing relevance there. (This is also pretty obvious; otherwise, the decision to couple the Iris Pro chips with a dGPU in October would have been insane for cost reasons.)

A recent case in point: last year on April 1, laptops began shipping from ASUS and Lenovo with GeForce 700M chips that had been formally announced at the start of the year. Apple elected to release a paltry 0.1Ghz CPU speed bump only upgrade on February 13. There are actually better examples in the last few years (e.g., no date gap whatsoever, bigger performance differences), but I picked this one for its recency and its relevance (given that it's the exact same product).

If you want to hope for an 850M, that's fine. Selfishly, I'd love to see it. The reason I'm commenting is that I think it's far, far, far from a sure thing...and I hope users here don't convince themselves that it's a sure thing. That's a recipe for disappointment and a flurry of angry, "WHY HAS APPLE DONE THIS TO US?" posts. Yes, I know, people on Macrumors would never say such a thing...

Can't argue with this at all, and I appreciate bringing people back to Earth before their hopes and dreams get smashed. I've been awake for 22 hours so please excuse my tartness.

I remember the Feb. 13 update very well. I had just received my CTO 15" rMBP two days before the update. TWO. There was no warning leading up to it. It just dropped and was devastating (first world problems yeah). I examined those changes very closely and beside a potential thermal/TDP improvement, it was just the 0.1 bump. Still, "early 2013" sounded so much nicer than "mid 2012" so I returned it while I could. I never did get another one though, and still need a new mac as I sold my 2009 mini last weekend. I understand there is the potential for a similar minor bump in May/June that doesn't upgrade the 750m. If that's the case they're waiting for Broadwell and we'll take stabs at that in 6 months. But I think, like some others, that late September - November there'll be a significant update and am willing to wait and see. I'm not just interested in the rMBP. I want to see if there's a new mini, AppleTV, and iMac as well. When all the cards have been laid I'll make my choice, and that choice will include an 850m.

 

[Mac.User]

I won't be getting a new laptop until DDR4 is out.

My dream machine for then would be a 13in retina with 256 SSD, 16GB DDR4 RAM, and a dedicated GPU. I don't expect that so I will probably get a 15in retina w/ 16GB DDR4 and dedicated GPU.

 

[mcarling]

Can't argue with this at all, and I appreciate bringing people back to Earth before their hopes and dreams get smashed. I've been awake for 22 hours so please excuse my tartness.

I remember the Feb. 13 update very well. I had just received my CTO 15" rMBP two days before the update. TWO. There was no warning leading up to it. It just dropped and was devastating (first world problems yeah). I examined those changes very closely and beside a potential thermal/TDP improvement, it was just the 0.1 bump. Still, "early 2013" sounded so much nicer than "mid 2012" so I returned it while I could. I never did get another one though, and still need a new mac as I sold my 2009 mini last weekend. I understand there is the potential for a similar minor bump in May/June that doesn't upgrade the 750m. If that's the case they're waiting for Broadwell and we'll take stabs at that in 6 months.

Can't argue so far, but ...

But I think, like some others, that late September - November there'll be a significant update and am willing to wait and see.

The minor refresh, similar to the February 2013 refresh, could come anytime in the June to September timeframe -- maybe even May or October. A significant refresh, similar to the October 2013 refresh and based on Broadwell, will come in 2015, probably H1 2015.

I'm not just interested in the rMBP. I want to see if there's a new mini, AppleTV, and iMac as well. When all the cards have been laid I'll make my choice, and that choice will include an 850m.

It's a safe bet that we'll see a new Mini not later than summer, probably during spring. A new Apple TV could also be released any day, but might wait until October, or perhaps even slip into 2015. I expect we'll also see a new iMac sometime before the 2014 holiday peak shopping season.

I won't be getting a new laptop until DDR4 is out.

My dream machine for then would be a 13in retina with 256 SSD, 16GB DDR4 RAM, and a dedicated GPU. I don't expect that so I will probably get a 15in retina w/ 16GB DDR4 and dedicated GPU.

It is far from certain that Apple will ever release a laptop with both DDR4 and a discrete GPU. It might happen with a Broadwell release in 2015.

 

[Teuthos]

How far in advance of a release will Apple announce a new MBP?

 

[mcarling]

How far in advance of a release will Apple announce a new MBP?

Often, the first announcement we get is that the online Apple Store is down for maintenance and then about an hour later, when the store reopens, the new products are there.

 

[Narcaz]

I would like to bring two aspects back to the discussion:

Someone here mentioned Apple will update the ports to HDMI 2.0 etc. and fully enable 4K support (maybe for a 4K Thunderbolt Display). I always thought, that all late 2013 rMBP are already capable of 4k 60hz due to Thunderbolt 2. And it's just a software problem. It turns out, that so far only the 750m model has been confirmed working with 4k 60hz under 10.9.3 beta and Windows 8.1. It seems like the Iris (Pro) will be limited to 4k 30hz forever.

Secondly: are there news or supply chain rumors about IGZO display? I can't find out if Apple could easily switch the display or a total redesign of the product is needed for the implementation (like the iPad). Beside Dell no one announced IGZO products and IPS may stick around a little longer.

 

[mcarling]

Someone here mentioned Apple will update the ports to HDMI 2.0 etc. and fully enable 4K support (maybe for a 4K Thunderbolt Display). I always thought, that all late 2013 rMBP are already capable of 4k 60hz due to Thunderbolt 2. And it's just a software problem. It turns out, that so far only the 750m model has been confirmed working with 4k 60hz under 10.9.3 beta and Windows 8.1. It seems like the Iris (Pro) will be limited to 4k 30hz forever.

This will become clear, one way or another, when 10.9.3 has been released.

Secondly: are there news or supply chain rumors about IGZO display?

A change to the display technology is very unlikely to occur this year when we expect a minor refresh. That is the sort of change that would be included when Apple update the MBP to Broadwell, Skylake, etc.

 

[Teuthos]

Often, the first announcement we get is that the online Apple Store is down for maintenance and then about an hour later, when the store reopens, the new products are there.

An ... hour? No other statement at all? I thought their second half of the year products would be unveiled at WWDC.

 

[mcarling]

An ... hour? No other statement at all? I thought their second half of the year products would be unveiled at WWDC.

There may be some new Apple products announced at WWDC, but certainly not all their new products for H2.

 

[WardC]

Perhaps the next update will be a small spec update, and a silent update? That is what I am thinking. No big grand presentation announcement.

 

[chelch]

are there news or supply chain rumors about IGZO display? I can't find out if Apple could easily switch the display or a total redesign of the product is needed for the implementation (like the iPad). Beside Dell no one announced IGZO products and IPS may stick around a little longer.

The new Razer Blade has an IGZO display. It's a damn nice looking laptop. It puts the current rMBP to shame. If only it came with OSX...

 

[koyoot]

http://semiaccurate.com/2014/02/19/sky-falling-intels-14nm-broadwell/

3rd Quarter. Rumors say that new MBPs will be available around September.

Looks like, this year we will get Maxwell/Broadwell update .

 

[Teuthos]

http://semiaccurate.com/2014/02/19/sky-falling-intels-14nm-broadwell/

3rd Quarter. Rumors say that new MBPs will be available around September.

Looks like, this year we will get Maxwell/Broadwell update .

Actually, the article specifically states that Intel missed Q3 and will therefore be releasing them in Q4.

I wonder how Apple is going to justify releasing a laptop in September when three months later Broadwell comes along.

 

[827538]

Interesting read this thread is...

also interesting is the pro-iGPU vs pro-dGPU crowd... too bad Apple isn't one or the other and MS was the opposite so we could have a real fanboy war!

I've debated picking up a base I7 2.0 rMBP or base I5 2.9 21.5" iMac over waiting for a refreshed mini recently and this is what I've decided. 4 months ago I would have picked one or the other without much debate. The Iris Pro is so close to the 750m that IMO it's not worth going for the dGPU in this case. Not just $-wise but, why have it if you don't need it? Another component to power, update and worry about failing.

There are many people on this site that argued how important dGPUs are when video editing. They made a great argument. I'm sure Apple knows this as well and will update their line up with 850m dGPUs. The mini won't get one, but the rMBP and iMac will, and IMO are worth waiting for. Maxwell is a great first step towards closing the gap between mobile and desktop, and iGPUs will never keep up.

Do you own a rMBP with the 750M? I'm guessing not as I'm sitting on one right now and believe me there is a serious gulf between them. How could the Iris Pro possibily compete with the 750M? Look at the number of SPU's, the dedicated VRAM etc. The iGPU is fine for plenty of users and you can happily spec a top end rMBP without the 750M. But why not let those of us who need/want some solid GPU power to buy our rMBP's with one? I'm paying around £2000 for a laptop, I think I have every right to expect a decent dGPU inside. I do plan on replacing mine with the Broadwell refresh - providing I can get one with the fantastic and much more powerful 850M inside, otherwise I can't upgrade.

But please don't make out that there's very little between the two, as it is completely wrong.

 

[GGJstudios]

the 15" without the 17" IS Apple's 'Pro' laptop...love it, hate it, or indifferent it's irrelevant. It's a Pro laptop with Pro specs, the fastest storage on the portable market...the fastest 4th gen mobile processors, the highest capacity PCIe SSD storage available and the ONLY machine with Thunderbolt 2x2.

Small correction here: the 13" MBPr also has two Thunderbolt 2 ports.

What are you on about...TB2 is already on the current 15" rMBP (yes 13 will likely get, but yawn).

The current 13" MBPr already has 2 TB2 ports.

http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/macbook-pro

 

[johnnnw]

After seeing how nicely the finger scanner works on the iPhone, I would love this being built into the Macbook in some creative way.

It may seem lame but typing the password is a bit of a pain sometimes, especially when it requires two hands if I have cap letters Maybe put it above the right direction arrow, or built into the power button.

Or some crazy *** technology that makes it in the trackpad.

 

[thundersteele]

http://semiaccurate.com/2014/02/19/sky-falling-intels-14nm-broadwell/

3rd Quarter. Rumors say that new MBPs will be available around September.

Looks like, this year we will get Maxwell/Broadwell update .

I'm surprised how you interpret the semiaccurate article. The way I read it is that it says mid-Q4 the earliest - that would be november. And that could be small volumes or low voltage CPUs only, it could easily be 2015 before we see Broadwell MBPs.

Actually, the article specifically states that Intel missed Q3 and will therefore be releasing them in Q4.

I wonder how Apple is going to justify releasing a laptop in September when three months later Broadwell comes along.

I just briefly thought that the front page news said that new Haswell chips are coming, but those are only for desktop. The news regarding the mobile CPUs are more confusing than anything... low-voltage Broadwell Q3/2014, upgraded Haswell late 2014, high-performance Broadwell unknown?!?

I guess if we end up seeing a Haswell speed bump in the MBPs in summer or fall, then most certainly they will delay Broadwell into 2015.

 

[827538]

After seeing how nicely the finger scanner works on the iPhone, I would love this being built into the Macbook in some creative way.

It may seem lame but typing the password is a bit of a pain sometimes, especially when it requires two hands if I have cap letters Maybe put it above the right direction arrow, or built into the power button.

Or some crazy *** technology that makes it in the trackpad.

Yeh totally agree. Before I got the 5S I wasn't sure how useful or gimicky it would be. After using it for some time now it is definitely a fantastic and well implemented feature. No reason it couldn't be implemented on Macs.