Point being, exactly what was the point of switching to Intel? (OK, running Windows is a given)
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Latest Mac OS X 10.5.6 Seed; Rosetta Becomes Optional in Snow Leopard?
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Point being, exactly what was the point of switching to Intel? (OK, running Windows is a given)
How is comparing processors from "three to four years ago" to the dual-core ones of today (only on the basis of clock speed) useful?
I think the advantages of the Intel switch-over have been covered very well by now.
Sorry, but in Windows-Land we're used to more consistency than we get in OS X-land. For example, Windows XP was released in 2001 and Microsoft will support it until 2014.
I know of a company where two years ago NEW installations of Windows NT Server & Exchange 5.5 were rolled out - yes, that was ten years after the original release of NT 4, and they could still get new licenses for that platform. And yes, it makes perfect sense to do something like that when you don't want to be forced to upgrade an entire corporate environment to a new software release.
Dell also offers optional five years of warranty for all their products.
So in Windows-Land, you can expect real long term support for your purchased products.
Now it's 2008 and Apple neither supports Cheetah, Puma or Jaguar anymore. I'm not even sure if they are still providing security updates for Panther. They sold their last high-end, professional PowerPC G5 workstations in 2006 and now already drop the software support for those machines in 2009.
In Windows-Land, business customers would quickly migrate to another platform if they didn't have at least five years of support. Or to be more to the point, they wouldn't have bought from such a vendor in the first place.
By the way, in many countries those five years are the time frame over which you can deduct/write off hard- and software investments from your taxes (or whatever the English term for this is - I'm German and we call this "von der Steuer abschreiben").
Cassie, there was no reasonable roadmap for PPC processors for laptops, the most popular form of computer sold today. Not the G5, nothing... nothing that could have been reasonably priced and engineered into a popular product. The whole thing was a dead end.
Well, Microsoft Office:Mac 2004 isn't, and whoever wants to use VBA makros is forced to stay on this version. Many printer drivers also haven't been re-written and are still using PPC code. There's most likely a huge amount of legacy (business) apps still in everyday use that won't ever be ported to the Intel architecture.
People like to bash Microsoft for their backwards compatibility, but that enormous compatibility is one of the main reasons why Windows is so successful in the corporate world. By maintaining that level of compatibility, Microsoft is giving their (enterprise) customers what they are asking for. In every big company you will find software that has been in use for years (in the mainframe world even for --decades--, just look at all that legacy COBOL code) without ever having been changed. Why would you want to invest in a re-write or a port to a new architecture when what you have already works?
Long Enough
Some people are complaining about the switch off of PPC but this is not unprecedented. The first PPC Mac was introduced in March 1994 and OS 8.5 released in October 1998 was the first update to run only on PPC. So, that was about 4.5 years. The Intel processors were introduced in January 2006 so if they release Snow Leopard in the middle of 2009 that would be 3.5 years. Not exactly the same but fairly close.
By the way, I still have my PPC PowerBook G4 1.25GHz that I bought October 2003. I'm ready for an update. I feel bad for those people who bought their PPCs in late 2005, but I'm sure there will be continued updates on Leopard for some time after the release of 10.6, so all is not lost.
Some people are complaining about the switch off of PPC but this is not unprecedented. The first PPC Mac was introduced in March 1994 and OS 8.5 released in October 1998 was the first update to run only on PPC. So, that was about 4.5 years. The Intel processors were introduced in January 2006 so if they release Snow Leopard in the middle of 2009 that would be 3.5 years. Not exactly the same but fairly close.
By the way, I still have my PPC PowerBook G4 1.25GHz that I bought October 2003. I'm ready for an update. I feel bad for those people who bought their PPCs in late 2005, but I'm sure there will be continued updates on Leopard for some time after the release of 10.6, so all is not lost.
That's one good way, don't know if "easiest" is the right word.
Note, of course, that "making sure it runs on PPC" doesn't imply "selling and supporting it for PPC machines".
We all now know that Apple kept building and testing the x86 support that NeXT had, even though many years passed before they started to sell x86 systems.
I'm sure there won't be, except for "security" updates that they're probably under a legal obligation to provide. And once Apple abandons PPC for OS development, all application vendors will drop it shortly afterward.
Not unprecedented is very true.
Some examples of short support cycles:
The Apple Workgroup Server 9650 was sold until February 1998. It wasn't supported by Mac OS X Server 1.0 released in March 1999, just 13 months later. Admittedly, OS X Server 1.0 was more of a preview for OS X, but the 9650 wasn't supported in the final OS X Server 10.0 released in May 2001 either or the final classic OS 9.2 released in July 2001. Keep in mind this is a server where they would probably expect better support.
The first PowerBook G3 called Kanga was sold until May 1998. Like the Workgroup Server 9650 it also didn't support OS X 10.0 released March 2001 (under 3 years) or OS 9.2 released July 2001.
The Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh was sold until March 1998. It also didn't support OS X 10.0 released March 2001 (exactly 3 years) or OS 9.2 released July 2001. Supposedly the original price was $10,000. You could either view it as it doesn't matter if support was cut early since for that price, it's obviously more for display than use. Or you could view it as, if you paid $10,000 in 1998 for a computer, you'd think you'd get a little bit more life out of it.
The last PPC Macs to be replaced were the Power Mac G5 with the Mac Pro at WWDC 2006 in mid-2006. I believe Apple stated at WWDC 2008 that Snow Leopard would come 1 year later, so assuming a WWDC 2009 launch, it'll be exactly 3 years from when the last PPC Mac was replaced. The 3 year cut-off for PPC support isn't completely out of line with the last major Mac transition and culling, which was the switch from OS 9 to OS X, where my 3 examples above come from.
but in order to be a cutting edge computer company, things like this will happen.
I embrace progress and trust Apple's decisions... I can't wait for Snow Leopard even if it means I must make my first gen MBP my backup machine...
As long as we get the option of keeping Rosetta I don't mind.
I have a few nifty PPC apps that haven't been updated but that are still very useful.
I have a few nifty PPC apps that haven't been updated but that are still very useful.
They buy a new computer as they make their living off of it. The other way of coping is to use the computer as they bought it and upgrade it to Leopard. If you make more than a hundred bucks a month doing web design and are really a professional you have an investment ahead of you, if not..... stick with PPC.
I have many issues with Apple but I am certainly not a "professional" on antiquated equipment. If it works well for you as a "professional" how it is now, why upgrade? Most companies are in no hurry to do so.
My garbage posts should be enough proof that I am also a creative professional. If you can not afford a Mac every 4 or 5 years you should do something else.
With the language thing you can save SEVERAL GBs and not a few MB. Last time I did it I recovered like 2 or 3 Gb, I don't exactly remember. It is a big difference.
Reading some people complaints, it seems to me that PPC computers running Leopard are going to self-destroy the very minute they release Snow-leopard.
What's the problem, guys?. If your system is working for you, it will continue working later on. Anyway, there's not the smallest chance that you are going to enjoy all this new features in Snow-Leopard with a PPC, so why bother?.
I think it is absolutely natural to develop software that takes advantage of new hardware.
Do you go complain video game companies for making games that won't run in 2 year-old computers because of GPUs or whatever?. Computing is a feast evolving world. If you want to be always on top, renew your computer every year and you'll enjoy always the new released toy.
What's the problem, guys?. If your system is working for you, it will continue working later on. Anyway, there's not the smallest chance that you are going to enjoy all this new features in Snow-Leopard with a PPC, so why bother?.
I think it is absolutely natural to develop software that takes advantage of new hardware.
Do you go complain video game companies for making games that won't run in 2 year-old computers because of GPUs or whatever?. Computing is a feast evolving world. If you want to be always on top, renew your computer every year and you'll enjoy always the new released toy.
They seem to be trying with the iPhone. 10.6's features are useful for more than gaming and pretty UI effects, too.
NT is competing respectably with Linux. Enterprise also cares about support, OEM apps, 3rd party apps, training, admin/developer availability, integration, etc. Particularly on the server, "is the initial purchase cost as low as possible?" is not a top priority.
You're probably thinking about PC hardware that runs little more than Office (that'll be expensive MS Office, not cheap OpenOffice) and/or some vertical app... the Mac Mini has confirmed that they're not interested in such market.
Because parsimony is to Apple as Skeletor is to He-Man.
Sorry, i don't get this, have NEVER had dropouts/slow connections with WiFi in Leopard...either on my original Netgear Wifi router, or subsequently on my Airport Extreme connected tp my Virgin Media cable modem.
And this is on a Macbook (Mark 1) that I have updated, not clean installed since I bought it.
not so much on my Macbook since I replaced the drive with a 160GB drive, and I will just Clone and restore to a 320 Gb drive soon, as my Aperture library is getting a tad big, at the moment!
Yes, but only because just about everyone, including the bank I'm currently working for which is one of the biggest (well it WAS one of the biggest!) in the world, have decided that Vista is not only not good enough, but also too expensive to update a large proportion of it's infrastructure for. They are currently STILL on Win 2K, and will (probably) transition to XP next year.
So it's not so much that MS support their OS's for a long time, it's just that in the corporate world their cutomers demand it.
I can GUARANTEE you, that if this wasn't the case, XP would have been EOL'd by now!
of the McSean?
"To our valuable customers that have bought new Mac in 2005 and later. Others, 2004 included, may bugger off".
In windowsland, only 64bit vista can't run '82 dos apps.
They will buy new round of towers to find them worthless after 4 years, when new iSuperPhone sdk will run only on ARM towers.
I've had very mixed results myself!
This on an intel MBP which seems to be an indicator of a problem machine. I don't think any of the PPC machines see this issue at all.
Dave
That is good for you! However my experience is mixed. I use WiFi on the go and the last WiFi update made some locations very unreliable to the point where one isn't usable anymore. Other sites became more reliable so it is not like the update didn't fix anything.
This on an intel MBP which seems to be an indicator of a problem machine. I don't think any of the PPC machines see this issue at all.
Dave
Confusion between what support means and the development of new OS features?
In some ways though I believe people are jumping the gun here as Apple hasn't laid out any specific transition plan for old hardware yet. Even when it comes to intel hardware SL is only running fully on a small number of intel machines. We are not even sure that PPC will be excluded from SL. It makes a lot of sense that it would be due to SL being a major transition but that is another issue.
I'm any event there have been many times locally where the corporate people have skipped upgrades due to the quality of what would be the upgrade platform. Vista is just one example from MS but let's face it the first few revs of OS/X didn't invite a lot of adopters. The key with corporate updates is the minimzation of trouble.
That is a bit of a stretch because MS has already EOL'ed Windows 2K that you are currently using. XP staying around for longer than planned is just MS admitting that Vista has issues. MS has phased out a number of OS versions no matter the whinning and thrashing of those to cheap to update.
In any event your argument doesn't even acknowledge that some corporate locations are still running NT and other phased out MS operating systems. Just like old NT users nothing forces Apple users to update, often on an old platform you are better off with an older software rev anyways.
All the belly aching aside, a PPC machine isn't going to stop working when SL hits the street. People need to realize this.
Further it currently looks like some of SL features are directed at developers. It could be months or longer before a compelling suite of apps hit the marketplace to justify consumer uptake of SL. As I've said before I just don't see where PPC users have a leg to stand on right now.
Last I knew support for 2K had already passed. Doesn't matter because Apple hasn't indicated at all as to how long they will support the 10.5 series of Mac OS/X. Support is a massively different concept from delivering a new OS version with new features. Frankly MS offfers up new OS revisions, that aren't compatible with old hardware all the time. That is the reality of the business new hardware offers up capabilities that new revisions of an OS can exploit. Eventually as a user you get left behind.
In some ways though I believe people are jumping the gun here as Apple hasn't laid out any specific transition plan for old hardware yet. Even when it comes to intel hardware SL is only running fully on a small number of intel machines. We are not even sure that PPC will be excluded from SL. It makes a lot of sense that it would be due to SL being a major transition but that is another issue.
In the corporate world it is an issue of many competeing forces not just the OS cost. Free updates are easy to take of course but the cost of Apple upgrades at retail isn't that bad. Often other cost of an upgrade are more important.
I'm any event there have been many times locally where the corporate people have skipped upgrades due to the quality of what would be the upgrade platform. Vista is just one example from MS but let's face it the first few revs of OS/X didn't invite a lot of adopters. The key with corporate updates is the minimzation of trouble.
That is a bit of a stretch because MS has already EOL'ed Windows 2K that you are currently using. XP staying around for longer than planned is just MS admitting that Vista has issues. MS has phased out a number of OS versions no matter the whinning and thrashing of those to cheap to update.
In any event your argument doesn't even acknowledge that some corporate locations are still running NT and other phased out MS operating systems. Just like old NT users nothing forces Apple users to update, often on an old platform you are better off with an older software rev anyways.
All the belly aching aside, a PPC machine isn't going to stop working when SL hits the street. People need to realize this.
Further it currently looks like some of SL features are directed at developers. It could be months or longer before a compelling suite of apps hit the marketplace to justify consumer uptake of SL. As I've said before I just don't see where PPC users have a leg to stand on right now.