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OMG!

Please tell me where I'm "referring" to the "sale" of the device. I'll save you the trouble; I didn't say that.

You didn't. You stated that the comment jragosta made was not about Gizmodo unveiling the device.
Your idiocy lies in your inability to understand that jragosta's comment on "disclosure" does not directly relate to Gizmodo unveiling of the prototype

Now, given the quotes, the "disclosure" jragosta made seems to be very clearly about that.

Or, perhaps, since you seem to be insulting me on numerous occasions (image stating "You are an idiot", "Your idiocy", "Don't make me dissect your comment and further ridicule your ineptness ", according to Macrumors' rules, these insults are Instantly Bannable Offenses), rather than explaining what you state is so clear... please explain.

SAD*FACED*CLOWN was not speaking into reply to anyone, so that's all the context we're going to get. What am I missing. I'd be happy to admit fault if I see that I'm wrong- and I will admit, I have been wrong, and I have misinterpreted things in the past. I am more than willing to admit when I have misread something.

Instead, you proceed to insult me repeatedly, and thus far I haven't seen things from your perspective.

Please enlighten me.
 
No, you wouldn't. You would put pictures and a long story about it here on MacRumors first. Or maybe you would just keep it hidden for a while and then later, when grass has grown over everything, sell it on eBay. Or just put it in a vitrine and have a fat grin on your face every time you see it.

But no. I do not believe that you would directly drive to One Infinite Loop. Nobody would.

How do you know what anyone would do? Oh right - YOU DON'T. I for one would drive to Apple if thats what it took (I go right by there everyday). Before doing that, given that the "finder" knew the employes name and where he worked, I would have called Apples main number and asked to speak to Gray. I'm sure he would come right over and pick it up. Problem solved.
 
I just told you that laws are fallible.

The laws dealing with found property remain pretty much unchanged since Babylonian and biblical times, and California's penal code section dealing with found valuables is virtually identical to laws on the topic throughout the civilized world. Although some areas of the law are still fluid and subject to controversy, you'll find that the criminal laws governing the aspects of ordinary life have remained fairly well unchanged, and are well-understood and approved by the overwhelming majority of responsible people.

If you think it right for the law to require a person who finds valuable property to make a reasonable and just effort to return that property to its rightful owner then any problem you may have is not with the the law.

But the law is hardly enough by itself. It remains to determine what the facts are of a particular case, and then to apply the law to those facts. Most often in an American criminal case, this will be the job of a jury. As anyone who followed the O.J. Simpson case can tell you, sometimes California juries come to odd conclusions; nevertheless, I don't think anyone believes that the law against murder is fallible, just the occasional jury.

My experience is that when you get people together in a jury room and have them take an oath to follow the law and to be fair, a lot of the emotional non-sensical things people say to each other in chat rooms or at the water cooler stop being said fairly soon, and in the overwhelming majority of cases the jury will come to a unanimous verdict that is consistent with the judgment of most people. The judge will help--he would instruct the jury, for example, in the iPhone case, that any carelessness of the Apple employee is not a matter for the jury to consider, because it doesn't affect the duty of the finder. The judge will also instruct the jury not to consider whether Apple, Inc. is a rich or poor corporation, or whether Apple acted imprudently in entrusting a test model of new product to an engineer. In this way the legal system seeks to help make fallible people commit fewer errors.

The real discussion will then remain whether the finder acted more like someone who was looking for an excuse to keep or sell the phone, or more like someone doing everything he could, within reason, to get the phone back to its rightful owner.

California could have passed a criminal statute applying the standards of the Civil Code to this question, or it could have simply provided that unless you file a report with the authorities (police, sheriff, campus police, etc.) within so many hours of taking custody of the property, you are automatically guilty of theft. But that is not the law--the law leaves it, most often, to a group of ordinary citizens to decide, based on their own experiences and sensibilities, whether or not under all the circumstances the defendant acted reasonably and justly.

Just like the people in the jury room, we each have our own ideas, based on what we think we know at this point, about how this finder acted, and I think that is the basis for a good and interesting conversation. Based on the number of comments in this thread and the several similar ones, a lot of other people think so too.
 
1) iTunes recognized it as an iphone, which wouldn't happen with a knockoff
2) the internal parts were chock full of apple trademarks and partnumbers that correspond to things like the A4 processor.
3) apple claimed it was their's and asked for it back

That would be a pretty elaborate knockoff

Not to mention, of course, that Gizmodo paid $5 K. I doubt very much that they would have paid $5 K without firmly believing that it was an Apple phone.

I'm not defending theft. I don't see this as theft.

You can see it as tiddlywinks if you wish. That doesn't make your view correct.

Under CA law (and the law in virtually every state in the US), it is theft - whether you like it or not.

I just told you that laws are fallible.

They can be - and you're free to petition your Congressman to change the laws. You are NOT free to break the law whenever you wish just because you don't like it.

They didn't buy the phone. They didn't plan on keeping it and using it as their primary phone.

That is one of the most twisted, bizarre interpretations I've ever seen.

Gizmodo handed some guy $5 K. The guy handed him the phone in return for the $5 K. Go ahead and try to tell a jury you weren't buying the phone.
 
Something a lot of people have looked over:

Apple already knows who the thief/seller of the phone is.

That is... if he really did call Apple and initiate a ticket. He certainly left his name and contact number if he was expecting a call back.

The police have everything they need to figure this out... Gizmodo can't do a damn thing about protecting their source.
 
In case you didnt notice, it's an agency that deals specifically with technology related things smart guy.

Better time would be spent to investigate all those kiddie fiddling catholic priests with their hard disks full of such material
 
Why they gave it back after taking a few pics.
If they wanted to be real pricks they would had giving it to microsoft or google.

Their whole scheme relied on the defense that they didn't buy stolen property- they bought it so they could return it to Apple. But they didn't know if it was Powell's device or Apple's device...etc., bunch of crap.

MS and Google wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
 
while right, i would venture most people if asked, would assume it's lost and not stolen. doesnt mean thats an excuse but the legal definitions are not known to most people

The legal definition is based on state laws for all the me-to-lawyers. As before different states have laws that state what is a crime is. Does anyone actually have the law the pertains to this so called crime?
 
Something a lot of people have looked over:

Apple already knows who the thief/seller of the phone is.

That is... if he really did call Apple and initiate a ticket. He certainly left his name and contact number if he was expecting a call back.

The police have everything they need to figure this out... Gizmodo can't do a damn thing about protecting their source.

If that ticket doesn't exist that would suggest Gizmodo lied, no?
 
He has nothing to do with this story. The idea that someone has to "press charges" is a myth.

So the police are like "hey we have time on are hands, let's go after a guy for selling a phone." Yes you do need to press charges. Further more yes Steve Jobs is a prick "hey we are so secretive, but we give top secret devices out to buffoons" this whole thing is like ford making a top secret car that no one is supposed to know about. Then giving each engineer a car to drive. Bad judgment call Steve, suck it up.
 
If that ticket doesn't exist that would suggest Gizmodo lied, no?

I have a feeling what happened was that the guy who found the phone did not try and return it at all, and when he offered it Gizmodo, they came up with a plan to cover themselves legally. This probably included having him agree to the story they concocted, and advising him to call Apple customer service so that there would be a paper trail while knowing they would probably brush it off.
 
Why they gave it back after taking a few pics.
If they wanted to be real pricks they would had giving it to microsoft or google.

HA HA HA. that would have been great.

What if he then took your social security card from your wallet (assuming you're American) and sold it for $5K to Gizmodo who would then post it on the internet.

apples and oranges in my opinion. I think it has been stated many time on this forum that "reasonable" measures must be taken. I think the fact that we are all arguing about what is reasonable may make the law void for vagueness not to mention a guaranteed loser for the prosecution. Good luck getting a unanimous vote for guilty on this bad boy.
 
So the police are like "hey we have time on are hands, let's go after a guy for selling a phone." Yes you do need to press charges. Further more yes Steve Jobs is a prick "hey we are so secretive, but we give top secret devices out to buffoons" this whole thing is like ford making a top secret car that no one is supposed to know about. Then giving each engineer a car to drive. Bad judgment call Steve, suck it up.

No they don’t - the statutes define the crime and do not require charges being pressed. I wouldn’t try and call cmaier wrong unless you have major citations - he happens to be a very intelligent lawyer.

And he is right.


ETA: And Steve Jobs personality is irrelevant to any of this case. He could be the spawn of satan and it doesn’t change the facts of the case.
 
Good thing we dont have such logical people as you working in our court systems. You can think whatever you want, because our law thinks otherwise.

Reading through some of these comment here and on other sites about the story, it never ceases to amaze me just how ignorant most people are on the Internet.

Rather than just stating that you have the knowledge that is above the rest of us, show us this proof of why in the State of California what was done would be considered a theft.

You can read the post and believe that your superiority is above us and that you have some inside knowledge but do not need to share.

Easy to say you know the truth, the right answer, but that just shows ignorance. If you know the law and statute that govern theft for California please feel free to share with us less fortunate individuals.
 
It's one thing to have stolen property.....and another thing to take it apart and post pictures on a web site.

Found property isn't stolen. The dude should have been more careful with such an important device. Apple should sue him for the money they will lose.

I wouldn't return it, especially if I paid $5,000 for it.
 
Wow this is a long thread.Whew
My opinion is this phone was stolen.
I have a question for the people sticking up for the person I deem at thief.
He didn't know it wasn't a regular iphone until the next day from what I read. Why didn't he contact the person who had the phone. He had his info.
Better question for those who think apple not the engineer is the owner.
I have an iphone. If I leave it in a bar are you going to call applecare to return it to me rather than giving it to the bar keep? If so why?
 
No they don’t - the statutes define the crime and do not require charges being pressed. I wouldn’t try and call cmaier wrong unless you have major citations - he happens to be a very intelligent lawyer.

And he is right.


ETA: And Steve Jobs personality is irrelevant to any of this case. He could be the spawn of satan and it doesn’t change the facts of the case.

I got a little angry and didn't say it clearly as I should have. I'm just saying Apple should drop charges, it'd be good PR. Plus I think this whole thing (while legally theft) stems from a stupid move by Apple.
 
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