That would be fine until the guy sold the phone and collected money from it. That becomes larceny, a crime. This man made money, $5,000 according to published reports, off a product that he neither owned, nor had any right to sell.
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Law Enforcement Reportedly Looking Into Circumstances of Lost Next-Generation iPhone
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That would be fine until the guy sold the phone and collected money from it. That becomes larceny, a crime. This man made money, $5,000 according to published reports, off a product that he neither owned, nor had any right to sell.
Law enforcement doesn't have better crap to waste their time on?
What? You mean like shoplifting, breaking and entering, pickpocketing and other theft? If the facts are as Gizmodo published and ADMITTED, then they admitted to the FELONY of knowingly buying stolen property. Of course that is worth spending law enforcement time on. Otherwise, everyone has a free ride to pick up your cellphone, your wallet, your laptop that you leave about for a few minutes and claim that they the items were "lost". There is no "finders keepers" in grown-up world.
Gizmodo apparently broke the law (a felony at that) - why should they get off the hook? Just because they are famous and own a website? Or perhaps you think only poor people should get prosecuted for theft?
Journalism crosses the line when the journalists commit crimes to run the story.
The stupidity of some people in this thread amaze me. The phone was clearly stolen by someone at the bar and they made no real attempt to return it to its owner. Speaking of the owner, the engineer worked for apple and had possession of the phone therefore he is an extension of apple and the owner of the phone. As for the wallet analogy, even if you are a royal dumb ass and leave your car with the keys in it and the door unlocked. If someone gets in a drives away, thats theft if they don't try and give it back. Same with me dropping my wallet, or apple dropping their phone.
Government takes away property used in criminal activities. Different story.
The case being made here, as I understand it, is it's okay to steal cellphones.
So where do we draw the line?
If you like my fountain pen, presumably you can take it.
DO you like my keys? I guess you can take them. They're only keys, $40 to $85 each for the car keys and $1 for the others.
Want my stereo? Break in and take it, I guess. The receiver's just $120. (Pioneer refurb in case you wondered.) It's worth even less than a phone.
Oh, and be sure to whine and complain when something of YOURS is stolen. because to paraphrase Mel Brooks, if someone steals Apple's prototype iPhone that might have cost over $50,000 to make (prototypes cost more than production models), that's comedy. If someone steals your $30 cellphone, that's tragedy.
The case being made here, as I understand it, is it's okay to steal cellphones.
So where do we draw the line?
If you like my fountain pen, presumably you can take it.
DO you like my keys? I guess you can take them. They're only keys, $40 to $85 each for the car keys and $1 for the others.
Want my stereo? Break in and take it, I guess. The receiver's just $120. (Pioneer refurb in case you wondered.) It's worth even less than a phone.
Oh, and be sure to whine and complain when something of YOURS is stolen. because to paraphrase Mel Brooks, if someone steals Apple's prototype iPhone that might have cost over $50,000 to make (prototypes cost more than production models), that's comedy. If someone steals your $30 cellphone, that's tragedy.
Yes. Their excuse is like telling an officer "I wasn't sure it was cocaine when I bought it. I wanted cocaine and I paid for cocaine but I didn't know until I snorted it."
Ah jeez. Unless it was actually pick-pocketed, Apple should not press charges on this. Not good PR.
I wonder what they'll do.
I wonder what they'll do.
How do you know the value of the iPhone? The $5,000 number came up weeks after it went missing. What if Gizmodo paid less for the phone, would you use that number instead?
You seem to be confusing the concept of "Finder's Keepers is the law" with "Finder's Keepers SHOULD be the law." I get that. I think it's okay to speed a little bit, but the actual law does not agree with me.
As surely as my speeding ticket is legal, so Gizmodo is sure to be in deep doo doo.
PS> The reason why we HAVE no Finders Keepers rules is because thieves would ALWAYS claim they'd FOUND things.
The thief FOUND my bike. Sure, it was chained to a post, but he broke the lock and took it. So I guess it's OK?
(In reality long ago I did have a very expensive bicycle stolen from inside my house; thieves just walked in through the back door and took it. Guess that was MY fault and I shouldn't have wasted police time on it.)
The thief FOUND my bike. Sure, it was chained to a post, but he broke the lock and took it. So I guess it's OK?
(In reality long ago I did have a very expensive bicycle stolen from inside my house; thieves just walked in through the back door and took it. Guess that was MY fault and I shouldn't have wasted police time on it.)
Not to mention conspiracy, misappropriation of trade secrets,, etc. They took the thing apart! They published photos of it and its innards! They knew they didn't rightfully own it when they did all that. Someone finds my lost safe, and decide to take it apart and publish the contents before returning it, and that's ok?
Its a criminal case, it doesn't matter what Apple wants. Its the local governments obligation to investigate.
No, it's not legally correct. Under California law, you can contact the person who lost the property if known (the engineer), you can leave it with the place of business where it was found (the bar), or you can turn it over to the police. That's it.
At no point does calling the company's customer service number meet any legal obligation or fall under any applicable definition of 'reasonable'.
No, they didn't. A customer support rep, when allegedly called, handled it the way a CSR is supposed to. They don't handle any company-internal matters, and they are not empowered to speak on behalf of the corporation itself in any capacity except helping customers with sales or product support.
No. When you find a Blackberry and discover that it belongs to an AMD employee, and you happen to know that AMD issues Blackberries to its employees and is the owner of the phone, you do not call AMD's customer support number. They wouldn't know anything about it.
You contact the authorized agent, who is for all intents and purposes the owner of the property, or if that person is not known, you contact the corporate office. It's truly odd for you to argue that a low-ranking phone rep "is" Apple while the engineer who holds actual possession of the device should be ignored.
When a neighbor in a rented home is vandalized, do you call your neighbor, or do you search through county records to find the property owner and Google for contact information? In a home that isn't paid off, do you call the mortgage company (the real owner), or the neighbor? You call the neighbor. They handle the issue with the property management company, the owner, the bank, and/or the insurance company--the point of contact is the lawful possessor, who is usually referred to simply as the "owner" for convenience.
Of course, if such a sale took place, they would not be stolen goods, and there would be no fraud. It would simply be the suggestion that Apple might pay a large reward for the phone.
Which action in there is the fraud ? Which is the trafficking in stolen goods ? Conspiracy, yes, but it is not a crime. Conspiracy to commit a crime, is a crime, but this most definitely is not. It then ends up diverting attention to the halfwit Apple engineer being the criminal.
All just a suggestion of what he might say.
Some still fail to understand some basic points:
The most important point of all, which seems to have slipped the "guilty" rants, even more suprisingly by those that "claim" to be legally qualified - a person is innocent until proven guilty. You're not discussing evidence, you're preaching that a crime HAS been commited. I've never seen you use the term "allegedly" once.
The finder is under no obligation to hand the phone to the police, unless he believes it to be evidence in a crime. He makes attempts to return it to Apple, and then sells it. Oops, he's broken the California Civil code. He's not going to go to prison for that.
He doesn't know it's a real iPhone 4G, no-one outside Apple does. None of us here did either, at that time (last month), and we scan the rumours news for any leak we can find of upcoming phones, macbook pros and mac pros. It's all merely suggestion.
Even more compelling, as this is a criminal case, they have to prove to 12 individuals that he is guilty. Pick a random 12 posters here, do you think they'll convict ?
I can see his defence being paid by HTC / Google, who may go with the suggestion that it was a planned leak. Of course back in the real world, if an employee "lost" a prototype product in such a highly competitive market, he'd be sacked, and so would his manager for letting such a muppet have the phone. The defence only have to suggest this, to provide reasonable doubt - "Why is this guy still in his job ?"
interesting and disconcerting reading
anyways...
Why did they pay $5000 for the phone?
Why was the phone sold for $5000?
It's pretty difficult to argue ignorance over the item and its ownership, having paid $5000 for it.
Of course, the reason they paid for it was because they knew it was Apple's iPhone.
anyways...
Why did they pay $5000 for the phone?
Why was the phone sold for $5000?
It's pretty difficult to argue ignorance over the item and its ownership, having paid $5000 for it.
Of course, the reason they paid for it was because they knew it was Apple's iPhone.
You mean than to actually enforce the law?
.....
Bill Clinton would be proud of your legal rationalization.
.....
Cool, so why did Apple legal request the phone back? Should it have been the engineer's lawyer(s) sending the letter? If it's the engineer's property, I hope Apple promptly returned the phone to him.
Oh really? The only crime committed here is the EMPLOYEE who took the 'TRADE SECRET' out into the public for the world to see and leave it there! Apple may have a criminal case against the said employee who had possession of that phone for leaking trade secrets because the moron left it for the public to see? That phone could not have been kept too secret it was swinging out and about in a bar!!!! Explain that to a judge?
Finder of the phone is not in trouble - it is only a cell phone! No one really knew it was a true pre-release product under secret key. Even Gizmodo said they really did not know, they paid to put it out there and who would not? It was good gossip!
The only guilty party here is APPLE and their moron EMPLOYEE!! DUH!
Hey - DUH yourself. Trade secret distribution is the least of it. It is a simple matter of committing the crimes described in California Penal Code for theft of lost property and knowing purchase of stolen property. Because of the dollar amount involved, both crimes become felonies rather than misdemeanors. What's amazing is that everyone who so vehemently defends the actions of Gizmodo seems to think it's okay to take someone's cell phone that's lying around and think they own it and can sell it.
Ask yourself - would you find a wallet in a bar and take the money or would you locate the person by their license? Would you take someone's BlackBerry or, after finding the persons name when you turned it on (as happened here with the iPhone) would you return it? Or if you found someone's keys in a bar, would you give them to the bartender, or decide to keep them as a souvenir or sell them for scrap metal? REALLY, what are your MORALS?
Law enforcement doesn't have better crap to waste their time on?
This is important. I'm not only an
fan but also a law enforcement officer and I can assure you that even "white collar" crimes are important to investigate. These type crimes lead to much more expensive products and end up costing every one of us money.You should be happy that the DA's office is looking into it.
As for the post about Finder's keepers, sorry but that's not how the law works. Theft of Lost or Mislaid property is a real law in almost every state for a reason.
Some individuals' views on right and wrong are skewed by their intense distaste for Apple.
Incidentally, I loathe Microsoft, yet if someone found Steve Ballmer's phone in a bar and sold it, I'd argue for criminal prosecution.
Some of us manage to keep a rational perspective despite our personal biases.
No, bad PR would be to send a clear message to the public that taking Apple's prototype devices (or any item in general) and selling them (thus stealing them) is OK by them.
They should do the right thing, regardless of how the Apple Haters Brigade will react (and react with fury they will). And the right thing is to press charges against 1) the person who knowingly sold the phone to Gizmodo without having legal ownership and 2) Gizmodo for knowingly buying a phone they knew was not legally owned by the seller.
Case closed.
interesting read
http://gizmodo.com/5520729/why-apple-couldnt-get-the-lost-iphone-back?skyline=true&s=i
apprently, the guy tried to call apple numerous times to return it before selling it
http://gizmodo.com/5520729/why-apple-couldnt-get-the-lost-iphone-back?skyline=true&s=i
apprently, the guy tried to call apple numerous times to return it before selling it
Or return it and politely ask (blackmail? Certainly NOT) for a spare Mac Pro + a display or a free iPhone when it comes out.
I would have certainly tried that!
Who cares who legally owned it? The bottom line is the seller did not, and he knew it (and he knew the name of the owner or custodian of the property, however you want to spin it).
That's a crime.