Law Enforcement Reportedly Looking Into Circumstances of Lost Next-Generation iPhone

[quagmire]

If you call the company and they turn you away when you are trying to return their product, what do you do?

I believe him calling apple to return it is a faithful attempt in the eyes of the court. It is not as if there are other numbers to call

Why he wasn't trasferred to higher ups?

I doubt Apple's CS department would know who to call in regards of a lost prototype device.

As stated, there was a lot more ways the seller could have returned it after dumb CS reps blew him off. Turning it into the bar and/or police station would have helped. Also, I am sure there were contacts in the iPhone before they bricked it the next morning. He could have called someone. If his facebook account had his phone number listed, call that number or his email. There was so much more this person could have done, but didn't. The excuse of Apple's secrecy preventing their CS department from handling it is not going to fly when the seller failed to do the other things.

 

[ladeer]

If I am the head of InfoSec at apple, I will implement a security feature on all the iPhone 4G in testing out there, so that I can remotely trigger a panic mode so that, the phone would appear to be in [remotely wiped] mode with dark screen, but in fact is automatically sending back its location as well as both camera video feeds. it's also at the same time storing all the audio and video and location feed into its internal memory. if the battery is removed, this action will continue once the power returned. this will continue infinitely until power is depleted. So when Apple does retrieve the device at the end, they could gather information and evidence against the party who claimed to "found" it.

 

[HamNCheese]

All just a suggestion of what he might say.

Some still fail to understand some basic points:
The most important point of all, which seems to have slipped the "guilty" rants, even more suprisingly by those that "claim" to be legally qualified - a person is innocent until proven guilty. You're not discussing evidence, you're preaching that a crime HAS been commited. I've never seen you use the term "allegedly" once.
The finder is under no obligation to hand the phone to the police, unless he believes it to be evidence in a crime. He makes attempts to return it to Apple, and then sells it. Oops, he's broken the California Civil code. He's not going to go to prison for that.
He doesn't know it's a real iPhone 4G, no-one outside Apple does. None of us here did either, at that time (last month), and we scan the rumours news for any leak we can find of upcoming phones, macbook pros and mac pros. It's all merely suggestion.
Even more compelling, as this is a criminal case, they have to prove to 12 individuals that he is guilty. Pick a random 12 posters here, do you think they'll convict ?

I can see his defence being paid by HTC / Google, who may go with the suggestion that it was a planned leak. Of course back in the real world, if an employee "lost" a prototype product in such a highly competitive market, he'd be sacked, and so would his manager for letting such a muppet have the phone. The defence only have to suggest this, to provide reasonable doubt - "Why is this guy still in his job ?"

I 100% agree here.

The first step Apple HR / Legal should have taken here is fire the engineer to avoid this very argument.

There is also reasonable doubt if there's proof that Gizmodo contacted Apple in any capacity. There's nothing in the law about contacting the right person. Gizmodo called Apple. Period, end of story. "Dear Steve, I have your iPhone. -Giz" - yeah right...

Also, let's not forget that nobody believed that this was the next iPhone 4G until after it was disassembled. How is it, then, that Gizmodo should magically know by inspecting the outside?

 

[Tones2]

Yeah, crimes like this are unimportant unless they happen to you.

I consider the illegal sale of an item for $5,000 (and literally worth much, much more than that to the victim) to be a serious crime. I'm not sure where you draw the line between important and unimportant. Again, it probably depends on its distance from you personally.

I'd love to see your reaction if someone sold $5,000 of your stuff to someone else without your approval.



Perhaps you should permit the victims to assess the damage rather than Anonymous Internet Commenter Guy, hmm?

Once again (as always) your logic is completely out of context. Obviously, $5000 to ME is a lot more important than it is to Apple, so it's Apples and Oranges . And heck, if I LOST $5000 worth of stuff, I would consider it MY FAULT. I wouldn't suspect that anyone would find it and return it. If someone DID find it, try to contact me, and my wife answered and ignored it, then the guy sold my stuff, I would REALLY consider it my fault.

Tony

 

[dukebound85]

Yeah, it's not like he was holding a directory of personal phone numbers for the owner's home, friends, coworkers, or...

Oh, wait...

lol i like how you leave out the last part of my post

 

[iOrlando]

If you call the company and they turn you away when you are trying to return their product, what do you do?


Though I forgot about him knowing the guy. He should have contacted him as well

you answered your own question.

 

[LagunaSol]

Ridiculous analogy. The guy FOUND the phone. There was no agressive act here.

Ridiculous rationalization. It's not a crime to find the phone, it's a crime to sell the phone when you don't own it - especially when you found the name of the owner on the phone itself.

So we should arrest everyone who goes 31 mph in a 30 mph zone - Correct? It's the same logic.

Clearly your logic processor needs a serious recalibration. Or replacement.

 

[splashnader]

You Honor, you know i tried to call , … but there was no signal.
You know i used a iPhone, then my Verizon's Blackberry persuaded me to sell it.



It is called Common Sense (sadly it is scarce):
We should be grateful that we have the opportunity to give. Social balance is up to the people who hold the wealth.

That was so wrong. You know you are now on the official AT&T enemies list.

 

[pdjudd]

Clearly your logic processor needs a serious recalibration. Or replacement.

Or is missing entirely!

In case it is not obvious, I am joking....

 

[calderone]

So we should arrest everyone who goes 31 mph in a 30 mph zone - Correct? It's the same logic.

Tony

If you brag about it on your popular blog, sure.

 

[Tones2]

Another ridiculous point here is that Apple somehow has lost "trade secrets". Yeah right - all that cutting edge stuff like a camera flash, a front facing video camera, and a higher density screen. The competition, almost all of which had this stuff on their phones LONG ago, must have been DYING for THAT information!

Tony

 

[Mal]

First, there was no polish report for it being stolen. -1 Apple.
Second, Giz did pay for it on the idea it could be an Apple device. Split.
Third, Giz gave it back. +1 Giz

Morally and ethically, Giz is in the wrong. Legally, this is a dead end. Apple screwed up.

Not sure where Poland enters into the equation, but we can safely assume that there was indeed a police report filed, otherwise the local police would not be looking into this.

Secondly, Gizmodo paid for a device known not to belong to the person selling it (as has been reiterated multiple times in this and other threads).

Third, they returned it only after a stern letter from Apple Legal, instead of the person who found it actually contacting the owner of the phone (or as has been said, the custodian if you really want to be anal about it), or even Gizmodo trying to ascertain the owners information before paying $5000 dollars for it ($50 would have still been illegal, but $5000 means there's no denying this places it into the Grand Theft category).

Sounds like three strikes to me.

jW

 

[johnqh]

Once again (as always) your logic is completely out of context. Obviously, $5000 to ME is a lot more important than it is to Apple, so it's Apples and Oranges . And heck, if I LOST $5000 worth of stuff, I would consider it MY FAULT. I wouldn't suspect that anyone would find it and return it. If someone DID find it, try to contact me, and my wife answered and ignored it, then the guy sold my stuff, I would REALLY consider it my fault.

Tony

Wow

Then why are you on this board? Everything is your fault, so it is also your fault that you aren't persuading anybody.

 

[Tones2]

If you brag about it on your popular blog, sure.

REALLY - and that's how you want to spend YOUR tax dollars?

Tony

 

[notjustjay]

Once again (as always) your logic is completely out of context. Obviously, $5000 to ME is a lot more important than it is to Apple, so it's Apples and Oranges . And heck, if I LOST $5000 worth of stuff, I would consider it MY FAULT. I wouldn't suspect that anyone would find it and return it. If someone DID find it, try to contact me, and my wife answered and ignored it, then the guy sold my stuff, I would REALLY consider it my fault.

Tony

The fact that it was "your fault" does not make it any less of a crime for the other guy to have taken off with your stuff and then selling it. If your wife answered it and said "Well, you can keep it then", THEN the transaction MIGHT be considered complete (you legitimately gave the stuff away) IF your wife has the authority to say such things. (I honestly don't know how the law handles that question. Do married couples claim equal ownership rights to everything?)

I could leave my car running with the doors unlocked outside of a busy downtown nightclub. When it gets stolen, does it make the thief any less responsible? Sure, it was my fault, and my auto insurance would probably not be very happy about it, but it doesn't make the other guy any less of a criminal.

 

[al256]

Who cares who legally owned it? The bottom line is the seller did not, and he knew it (and he knew the name of the owner or custodian of the property, however you want to spin it).

That's a crime.

To answer the question, the legal owner is important.

Should he have been fired for the incident, what custodial duties/ rights would remain? I would say it's easier to assign less doubtful ownership to the company that created the product. Corporations exist in perpetuity, employment does not.

To discuss the legality of the sale of the device would seem to put us at opposite positions. I have no need to change your mind about your opinions. I'm only here to voice my opinions so that others might agree (but also disagree).

 

[quagmire]

Once again (as always) your logic is completely out of context. Obviously, $5000 to ME is a lot more important than it is to Apple, so it's Apples and Oranges . And heck, if I LOST $5000 worth of stuff, I would consider it MY FAULT. I wouldn't suspect that anyone would find it and return it. If someone DID find it, try to contact me, and my wife answered and ignored it, then the guy sold my stuff, I would REALLY consider it my fault.

Tony

So because Apple could absorb the value of $5000, makes this less important? Stealing is stealing even if the owner could survive with the stuff gone.

The fact that you don't expect the person to return $5000 of stuff to you just echoes the state of our ethics and morals are in.

 

[cmaier]

So we should arrest everyone who goes 31 mph in a 30 mph zone - Correct? It's the same logic.

Tony

No it's not the same logic, because speeding 31 in a 30 is not an arrestable offense. However you should receive a citation, except in many states a speed limit under the maximum speed limit is merely the limit that is de facto evidence of violation of the basic speed law (to safe for conditions). If you had said 66 in a 65, that would have worked slightly better, and you should replace "arrest" with "cite."

 

[redkamel]

ok.

1. He did not "go to great lengths" to return the device. He made one phone call to customer service. Please say if you have contrary information.

2. Apple did not "miss a chance to get the device back". The only person contacted was low level customer service person...who knows nothing about Apple prototypes, lost or not. So if they get a call saying: "I have a phone that I swear ran iphone OS, but now its broken. It kind of looks like an iphone but its not" What can they say? They don't know to be looking for prototypes and it sounds like a knockoff. No one at Apple ever saw the device, or really even knew what it was.

3. There is a difference between speculating about upcoming items in SKU numbers at Best Buy that are freely seen by employees, and paying 5 grand for complete lost/stolen prototypes. If that needs to be explained to you, good luck not going to jail.

4. This is technically theft. You are guilt of not only doing things but also of not doing things (ie allowing crimes or not reporting crimes you know will happen or have happened). If you find something of value and make little or no attempt to return it, that is theft. Just because you did nothing active does not make it better. Think like a reasonable person.

If you find five bucks on the ground, and no one is around so you keep it, that is not theft. If you try to return it, the person is long gone, so your only chance is if someone reports it. But 5 bucks is a small amount and no is missing it, reporting it, or really caring. So it is reasonable to keep it. But if you find 1000 dollars on the ground and keep it, that is theft, because someone is likely missing it and reporting it. So it would NOT be reasonable to keep it.

 

[Tones2]

Never mind.......I'm outta here.

 

[calderone]

REALLY - and that's how you want to spend YOUR tax dollars?

Tony

Many police will ignore someone who is going 31 in a 30, going 31 in a 30 is not the same as what happened here (as others have said, if you care to read). I hope you can see that. I will refrain from rolling my eyes as if I am correct.

Never mind.......I'm outta here.

READ: I can't take being wrong and people calling me out on it.

 

[cmaier]

Another ridiculous point here is that Apple somehow has lost "trade secrets". Yeah right - all that cutting edge stuff like a camera flash, a front facing video camera, and a higher density screen. The competition, almost all of which had this stuff on their phones LONG ago, must have been DYING for THAT information!

Tony

Right. Because right now no one in china is tooling their factories to make clones. No value whatsoever to this information.

Some people make no sense at all.

 

[LagunaSol]

Once again (as always) your logic is completely out of context. Obviously, $5000 to ME is a lot more important than it is to Apple, so it's Apples and Oranges . And heck, if I LOST $5000 worth of stuff, I would consider it MY FAULT. I wouldn't suspect that anyone would find it and return it. If someone DID find it, try to contact me, and my wife answered and ignored it, then the guy sold my stuff, I would REALLY consider it my fault.

So if I found your wife's diamond ring, which had your wife's name engraved on it, and I found out where she worked (a mega international corporation) and called the customer service number for the company (rather than trying to contact her directly, which I could easily do, or reporting the find to the owner of the business where I found it, which I could easily do, or even (COMMON SENSE ALERT!) reporting it to the police, which I could easily do) and the customer service rep ignored me, I'd be free to sell it without any legal complaint from you, eh? Uh huh. Whatever.

Please let me know which bars you hang out on the weekends. I see the opportunity for some easy money.

Not sure why I'm wasting my keystrokes or bandwidth on you here anyway - clearly you can find a way to justify this act despite all rational thinking running counter to your ridiculous analogies.

 

[Tones2]

Oops..this time for real. Friday's more the time for partying then arguing, he he. My glass of wine awaits..

 

[Ochyandkaren]

Please explain to me how someone losing an item, another finding it equates to theft.

Remember he sold it?
How can you sell what is not yours?
Would you like it if i pick a thing you left behind and sold it, and keep the money?

How is that hard to understand?