Law Firms Consider 'Error 53' Lawsuits Against Apple as Some Stores Authorized for Repairs

[Gudi]

They have a lousy legal system.

 

[danranda]

Wrong allegory.
You take your Lexus to a non-dealership repair shop and the next time you take your Lexus to get something updated (EMC, GPS Maps, etc...) it kills your car and will no longer even allow you into the vehicle.
With no warning and no indication what is going on.

No warning except for the warranty you decided to void?
No warning except for the explanation Apple already gave previous times that these parts are paired and non-authentic parts or work done in non-authorized ways can result in damage, data loss or unexpected results??

 

[C DM]

Wrong allegory.
You take your Lexus to a non-dealership repair shop and the next time you take your Lexus to get something updated (EMC, GPS Maps, etc...) it kills your car and will no longer even allow you into the vehicle.
With no warning and no indication what is going on.

Analogy perhaps? And something along those lines could potentially happen if the new update checks for validity of something (something that wasn't checked before) and finds it invalid for some reason.

 

[lordofthereef]

You are right but why not simply disable Touch ID and allow the phone to continue to work?

This isn;t even linked to only touch ID. It is also linked to screen replacements in at least one case I have read.

 

[nebo1ss]

With few exceptions, it is illegal in the US and apparently much of the EU, to require that a consumer use only the manufacturer's parts or service centers.

That's why anyone can add non-Apple memory to their Mac, and why anyone can use a non-Ford battery in their car.

And that's also why the Apple Warranty only says that DAMAGE caused by such activities can void the warranty. So one question is, did the third party part cause the damage. Or was it Apple's OS change.

Perhaps Apple should provide a service to re-link sensors, just like locksmiths have to program automobile key fobs.

What a lot of people are also ignoring on here is that Apple devices have a disproportionate amount of screen breakages. Any third party repairer will tell you that the majority of phones that come in for fixing have broken screens and that the majority of those are Apple devices.

It is really interesting how so many come on here to defend Apple. There is one reason and only one reason why Apple has crippled these phones and it is nothing to do with security.

 

[dk001]

If Apple loses this suit, it will be bad news for encrypted devices. The whole idea behind that "secure enclave" is that it's immune to hacking. Allow someone to put a third-party fingerprint sensor in the iPhone, and it's much more likely that the secure data can be accessed. Apple's doing due diligence to protect its customers' data, and now they're being sued because of that.

Since when? Apple needs to do a couple of things:
- warn the user before borking the device
- allow a method to resync the parts and the device
- allow for non-certified (especially in rural / remote areas / other countries) OR increase the number of service centers

Thats just the minimal I can think of at the moment.

 

[gaximus]

In your 'analogy' the car is getting broken into anyway so reacts to it. The Apple one is pre-emptive as nothing has been stolen or is in the process of being stolen. In fact, I have seen nothing convincing that anything is at risk of being stolen

The analogy would be that you forget to lock your car and the car locks all the doors and immobilises itself. You can no longer open your car or drive it unless the company who built the car charge you money to do so. I

f that happened I would ask why the car could not just auto lock and that I could open it with my key instead of being completely unusable

Im my analogy I'm assuming that Apple is treating the new touch ID as a possible tampering attempt. Just because you haven't seen anything convincing that anything at risk doesn't mean that Apple hasn't found that something is at risk.

 

[lordofthereef]

So you are saying that my bank, and all third party apps, allow me to log in with only my phone's four digit password? Mastercard, Visa etc. allow this too? I find that hard to believe. My bank doesn't / shouldn't know my phones passcode. Even if it did, it wouldn't match my bank password.

I'm guessing that the Touch ID either returns a "go" or "no go" to the app that queries the Touch ID information. "Yes, this is Joe Mama, it's okay to let him proceed."

Any developers care to comment on this?

I am not trying to sound like a broken record but I keep reading people talking about touch ID only, and this isn't limited just to that. Screen replacements are throwing a similar error.

 

[gaximus]

Hahahahahahaha....I don't understand analogy?

And on your second point, I would want a bloody good explanation why they didn't tell me if it came to transpire.....just as they should be providing now really

Yes they should provide an explanation.

 

[danranda]

With few exceptions, it is illegal in the US and apparently much of the EU, to require that a consumer use only the manufacturer's parts or service centers.

That's why anyone can add non-Apple memory to their Mac, and why anyone can use a non-Ford battery in their car.

And that's also why the Apple Warranty only says that DAMAGE caused by such activities can void the warranty. So one question is, did the third party part cause the damage. Or was it Apple's OS change.

Perhaps Apple should provide a service to re-link sensors, just like locksmiths have to program automobile key fobs.

But nobody can just swap out an Intel Processor for any AMD processor they like? You can't just get ANY discrete graphics card to replace your broken one. Many components of MANY systems, like cars, computers, phones, record players, garage doors, etc can only work with a part properly designed for the components they will have to work with.
Yes, other companies could choose to make those parts according to a proper spec, but how are you to know that the touch ID sensor being used at the corner computer repair store is made to the proper spec, and the work done on your device is done with the proper tools and methods?

 

[lordofthereef]

No it isn't Ford's problem in that case but it is absolutely irrelevant to the points that are being made

Im my analogy I'm assuming that Apple is treating the new touch ID as a possible tampering attempt. Just because you haven't seen anything convincing that anything at risk doesn't mean that Apple hasn't found that something is at risk.

Is it possible for you two to stop quibbling in this thread over who has the best analogy and who understand analogies and who doesn't and etc.? Just a friendly request.

 

[dk001]

If someone stole a lawyer's iPhone and used this exploit to replace the fingerprint sensor to retrieve his information, that lawyer would sue.

Please stop with the lawsuits. It's getting ridiculous.

Dense. Think that through. If your iPhone is off, and you turn it back on, what is the first thing it asks you?
Your passcode/password. Not TouchID.

 

[bazzasc]

Why should they win money for intentionally voiding their warranty???
This is absurd. People need to wake up and realize these are not light bulbs or AA batteries. You can't just use any substitute part you like. I would ask them, what would you do if Apple did not secure your data as you expect them to? Would you sue them also if they allowed knock-off parts to work in their security systems and ended up letting "my buddy Joe who replaces broken iPhone parts on the cheap" steal their secure information?

People have to start asking themselves "am I being shortsighted by trying to save $30 on a repair?"

No warning except for the warranty you decided to void?
No warning except for the explanation Apple already gave previous times that these parts are paired and non-authentic parts or work done in non-authorized ways can result in damage, data loss or unexpected results??

Warranty is just an agreement with the manufacturer what they will repair and what they won't for a specified time. It has no real relevance as to what will work or not. It is not there to say that only OEM parts can or will work at any point in the lifetime....in fact anything that deliberately voids the use of non-OEM parts would be illegal. As always caveat emptor and so there is a risk with any repair...even from Apple themselves but this is not really a discussion about faulty workmanship by a 3rd party - which would not need a discussion at all

The second point is why TouchID only works with the original parts. That is fine as far as it goes. Touch ID is not a 'must' for phone operation though and so there is no justification to brick a phone with a working home button but no TouchID....the security argument keeps getting thrown out there but I haven't seen any real evidence that it is the case...many people who know more than me are arguing it out

 

[lordofthereef]

What a lot of people are also ignoring on here is that Apple devices have a disproportionate amount of screen breakages. Any third party repairer will tell you that the majority of phones that come in for fixing have broken screens and that the majority of those are Apple devices.

It is really interesting how so many come on here to defend Apple. There is one reason and only one reason why Apple has crippled these phones and it is nothing to do with security.

We hope.

Why isn't this limited to the touch ID sensor? Some folks who had their screens replaced reported similar issues.

 

[cmwade77]

I may be incorrect, but I believe that in the terms of use Apple states using unauthorized 3rd party repair shops may void your warranty and lead to unexpected results, even those rendering the device unusable.

Solution? DON'T utilize unauthorized 3rd parties!

What if you don't have an authorized repair center near you? Really, this is a major problem.

 

[dk001]

I believe Apple's goal is to ensure any phone Apple manufactures and services meets all features and specs.

And to not have a dumb down mode that disable's features because a customer decided to go to an unauthorized repair facility that uses unauthorized parts.

Okay... How is this doing that? I have the sensor worked on. I use my phone for months. I see I have an update. I update. I get an "error 53". WTH?!?

If it was security (and not something new Apple snuck/shoehorned in), why didn't it kick in when I had the repair instead of months later and requiring an update to trigger?

Think it through.

 

[bazzasc]

Is it possible for you two to stop quibbling in this thread over who has the best analogy and who understand analogies and who doesn't and etc.? Just a friendly request.

I am happy to do so but when people post nonsense then it should be challenged and, as a newbie on here, I wasn't aware you were the arbiter of what is posted on a thread - apologies for not asking your permission

 

[gaximus]

But what I can do is have my car towed where I can choose my own brand of replacement tire and pay 1/2 the labor for the same service. In your example Ford is telling the consumer what is wrong, what needs doing, and that they are legally obligated to disallow operation of the vehicle.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Apple hasn't made any information about disabling devices in this manner public. It just started happening. Further, it started happening after software updates, so some of these repairs could have been weeks or months old already. I am willing to believe that this is 100% in the name of security, but it should be public knowledge and it should be in the release notes or on Apple's website or something, at the very least. Instead, people are finding out the hard way.

Yes the analogy doesn't work perfect because there are many tire manufactures that sell safe tires, but if Ford was the only one that made 'safe' tires, it would hold true.

If Apple found something that could cause a security problem, they couldn't make it public knowledge, because then people trying to exploit the security whole wouldn't update. I'm sure there are people after hearing about this that are trying to find non-updated phones to do tests on to find out what information can be found by hooking something up to the Touch ID port.

 

[dr4stic]

Whether or not it's a good idea to have 3rd party vendors fix your product is besides the point. Legally you're allowed to.

At least one of the articles I read came from someone on assignment in a third world country that needed his phone working and simply didn't have any other choice within a 200 mile radius other than a local repair outfit. At least one of the articles talked about this happening on someone's phone who DIDN'T have anything replaced and was simply living with a damaged button.

From a security standpoint I can understand Apple not trusting a third party fingerprint scanner with the security subsystem on the phone. One would think they'd do a better job of sandboxing that information from a component that only needs to REPORT a finger print and not have any read access to that information, but who am I to judge. HOWEVER, they should have the user set a backup security mechanism in that case and then defer to it in the event of an unsupported TouchID device. The device shouldn't be disabled, the user should just be forced to use a different authentication method.

Apple's choice of actions was one of either 1) greed, 2) stupidity, or 3) shortsightedness.

 

[Gudi]

What a lot of people are also ignoring on here is that Apple devices have a disproportionate amount of screen breakages. Any third party repairer will tell you that the majority of phones that come in for fixing have broken screens and that the majority of those are Apple devices.

Even if your evidence was true, it could just mean it's not worth it to repair an Android device and people immediately trash their trashphones when the screen is broken.

It is really interesting how so many come on here to defend Apple.

Apple sympathizers on an Apple rumors site, how come?

 

[lordofthereef]

I am happy to do so but when people post nonsense then it should be challenged and, as a newbie on here, I wasn't aware you were the arbiter of what is posted on a thread - apologies for not asking your permission

I am not the arbiter, hence the friendly request part of my statement. I should have expected this would be the response though. Carry on if you can't help yourself.

 

[MikeSmoke]

If the bricking was done to protect user data, one might think that it would have bricked before the iOS update, and just not have worked. I don't envy Apple right now.

 

[doelcm82]

I need some feedback on this.

So you accidentally spilled something on the front of your iPhone 6 and didn't know it. You go to back up your device after your took some wonderful pictures of your child being born, their 1st birthday party or what have you. You notice that Apple tells you that there is a new OS available. You of course click yes lets do it. A few minutes into the update you realize that your computer is telling you that your device is throwing error 53. You now have a brick. You didn't take it to an unauthorized repair center. You didn't attempt a DIY repair. What gives?? Apple tells you sorry that liquid damage is a security breach. CMON now really. Why can't Apple give you a warning? What right does Apple have to tell you that H2O is a security issue. It's not just about repair centers. I hope that most users here can see how this doesn't really make sense. Just like icloud lock gives the users the ability to brick their own device, give them that option Don't force them to do anything.

Back up your data before doing any update. Back up your data often, regardless. I think an iOS update will prompt you to back up your device prior to installing it, or it will attempt to do it for you. Don't try to get around this step, no matter how much more important the update is to you than the photos of your child's birth.

If you lose pictures or other data that are irreplaceable, I feel sorry for you. Deeply sorry. I have had it happen to me, and I know how much of a bummer it is. I would feel sorry if you lost your photos by accidentally dropping your iPhone into a deep lake. I would feel sorry for you if you lost your photos because they were on film and the photo tech at the CVS accidentally exposed the whole roll to light (CVS would then give you a new, unexposed roll to replace the one that was damaged). I would feel sorry for you if you lost a great photo because your thumb was in the way of the lens, or someone stood up in front of you as you took the picture.

 

[bazzasc]

On the role of Touch ID as a pseudo-PIN it is interesting that when I use it on my 5S the PIN automatically fills in (I see the white dots before it lets me in)

What is the real security device...is it Touch ID or is it the PIN and how do they link together?

 

[Robisan]

I could only stomach the first page of comments but geez there's a lot of stupid there. Let's unpack this:

* If the phone is still under warranty people should have Apple replace it under warranty. I mean duh, under warranty = no cost. People still under warranty who pay for third party repairs are morons. And, yes, that would void your warranty.

* People out of warranty should have a free choice to repair as they see fit. Choosing a non-authorized repair brings risks. People are allowed to weigh the risks and decide for themselves.

* Apple is free to say "replace your TouchID in a non-authorized repair and we can't guarantee its safety w/r/t banking, credit card etc." Apple is free to lobby hard to dissuade people from third party repairs. But it's still the owner's choice whether they want to accept the risk.

* HOWEVER, Apple cannot affirmatively render your entire device useless because you choose a third party repair. That is illegal restraint of trade. And yes idiots, we have laws and LAWYERS for a reason.

~~~

...adding, this doesn't surprise me at all It fits neatly within Apple's core "Entrap and Exploit" business model.