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It is not just the "software damage" causing a bricked phone; it is anti-trust/anti-consumer strongly discouraging a consumer from pursuing third party repair alternatives; especially when the Apple stores give you no alternative but to pay for a new phone when all that is needed to repair a phone is a $5 part. Made worse by lack of warning by Apple that pursuing third party repair options could "brick" the phone because of the alleged security "features" (?).

This seems to me either poor design from security perspective and/or deliberate effort to give Apple a chance to circumvent anti-consumer laws designed to promote competition.

If Apple is on the losing side of lawsuits/anti-consumer laws, they may be forced to disable Apple Pay and/or redesign the software/hardware(!) to enable consumer choice on non-warranteed iPhone repairs.

It's the people doing the repair that should have warned them, not Apple; this thing has been known since IOS 8.3.
But, since they're likely not authorized they have an incentive to not say they can't really repair this part or they would lose the sale. I find the complete leap of logic, blaming Apple, just incredible.

I'm not sure why you think Apple should warn them; it's not Apple who is replacing the part and Apple would only do the verification when it's doing the OS is doing the "bricking"; when it is to late.
 
Yep, it's a stupid $9.99 sensor that contains fingerprint data which in turn controls access to your entire phone, including password apps and Apple Pay
Read again and very slowly:
"It" (the fingerprint sensor and the attached circuitry) does not contain ANY data. at all.
Passwords should never ever be saved in clear text anyways. If that is what's happening on the iPhone, Apple should not be allowed to use biometric sensors in the first place...

Absolutely no way that anyone would have a reason to want to hack that stupid sensor.
As it looks now: No, its probably not possible without changing out some more parts inside of the phone.

Maybe it's me and I don't understand the technicalities of the iPhone.
You clearly don't. But I don't blame you.
 
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Picture this scenario:

You visit Paraguay on a nice vacation and drop your iPhone causing the phone to break. You then feel that you need your phone; as you are on vacation, so you get it repaired. $50 US and you are good to go... Until you get home and come to realize that your touch ID had been stolen along with your CC info, back account number, social security #, etc. and to top that all off you have been subjected to key logging and camera MTM attacks making every photo you took and every keystroke you typed a piece of information the ID thieves (aka the 3rd party repairman) have and are using to enhance their wealth and ruin your life. That is the scenario you risk when you allow non-validated part swaps in a device like an iPhone (or a full fledged computer for that matter). As for those of you that say "gee, just deactivate touch ID" I say think about how much sense it makes to detect a breach you KNOW about and deciding to leave the device vulnerable to attacks you DO NOT or MAY NOT know about rather than shut it down.

Is your identity and the contents of your phone worth less than $329 for a swap at an Apple Store? Actually, is it worth less than full price of an iPhone? If it is you probably should not own an iPhone or any other smart phone for that matter.
 
This whole thing reeks and Apple is the only one that benefits..kind of makes think hmmm, why is that.
 
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That's one example, but in today's world with cars having much more in them with automated braking and lane departure avoidance and all that kind of stuff seems like there's quite a bit to keep being secure and away from hacking (didn't GM just have a recall in relation to some of their vehicles being susceptible to hacking to the point of someone taking over the vehicle in various ways?).

It does not matter what component is replaced in a car, car manufacturers do not play big brother, they can inform/warn you of the risks of the modification and consequences on the warranty, they have no ability or arrogance to disable your car (unless stolen ).

In the GM example the recall was justified as an issue was found in a GM installed component, GM will not recall and take action for 3rd party components installed in your car forcing you to install thier parts, and that is what apple is doing.

At least with the GM example, it was proven to be a viable and technically possible threat, with the touchid, apple is yet to prove that thier security and your data is technically accessible with a 3rd party part. This is the problem, cause at this point there is no evidence! The touchid is a dumb sensor, converts a finger print into data , love apple to explain how the 3rd party touchid magically uses incorrect data to tell the iPhone it's correct to gain access.... If that is possible, Apple has a huge issue with security.

From all my research into touchid and apples presentations when it launched it, along with tear downs , there is no way to circumnavigate the Touch ID to access your data . It's technically not possible . So I have a laugh when appLe pulls this stunt.

If there was be very very sacred, cause that is exactly the backdoor governments and others are looking for.
[doublepost=1455093589][/doublepost]
Picture this scenario:

You visit Paraguay on a nice vacation and drop your iPhone causing the phone to break. You then feel that you need your phone; as you are on vacation, so you get it repaired. $50 US and you are good to go... Until you get home and come to realize that your touch ID had been stolen along with your CC info, back account number, social security #, etc. and to top that all off you have been subjected to key logging and camera MTM attacks making every photo you took and every keystroke you typed a piece of information the ID thieves (aka the 3rd party repairman) have and are using to enhance their wealth and ruin your life. That is the scenario you risk when you allow non-validated part swaps in a device like an iPhone (or a full fledged computer for that matter). As for those of you that say "gee, just deactivate touch ID" I say think about how much sense it makes to detect a breach you KNOW about and deciding to leave the device vulnerable to attacks you DO NOT or MAY NOT know about rather than shut it down.

Is your identity and the contents of your phone worth less than $329 for a swap at an Apple Store? Actually, is it worth less than full price of an iPhone? If it is you probably should not own an iPhone or any other smart phone for that matter.

The scenario is irrelevant as there is no proof it's possible.

A Touch ID is a dumb scanner , that is all it is. All it does is scan you finger, that fingerprint is then converted into a mathematical formula, encrypted, and carried over a hardware channel to a secure enclave on the Apple A7 chipset. If the fingerprint is recognized, a "yes" token is released. If it's not, a "no" token is released.

If Apple releases evidence a 3rd party scanner is cable of magically passing incorrect data to the A7 chip and getting a yes token .... Forget the touchid all together, some genius had found a way to circumnavigate encryption ;)

As soon as you replace your touchid, it does not work , it is not even able to send the data to the A7, as there is a hardware mismatch, let along somehow magically sending incorrect data and getting a yes token.

People have already decided that this is happening......

FYI, it's easier for hackers to get all your data from cloud services, Facebook, your computer etc etc, this scenario is actually the least realistic.
 
No they don’t. I’m pretty sure they just have to use parts of a sufficient quality and respect the manufactures service schedule.
Straight away, if I have an engine problem the OEM cannot claim it’s because I didn’t use the oil that they use. All they ned to stipulate is that the non branded/non OEM meets a set of criteria. For example I can use Halfords oil that meets VW spec 502 00/505 00 in my Golf, (which I don’t actually drive BTW), that is just as good.
Only going on what i experienced with Vauxhall less than a couple of months ago and from here back in 2012 :-

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/35704/watchdog-keeping-your-warranty-valid

"European Block Exemption rules mean manufacturers can’t invalidate your guarantee for not using a franchised dealer – as long as the garage follows the maker’s service schedule and uses original equipment parts"
 
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Picture this scenario:

You visit Paraguay on a nice vacation and drop your iPhone causing the phone to break. You then feel that you need your phone; as you are on vacation, so you get it repaired. $50 US and you are good to go... Until you get home and come to realize that your touch ID had been stolen along with your CC info, back account number, social security #, etc. and to top that all off you have been subjected to key logging and camera MTM attacks making every photo you took and every keystroke you typed a piece of information the ID thieves (aka the 3rd party repairman) have and are using to enhance their wealth and ruin your life. That is the scenario you risk when you allow non-validated part swaps in a device like an iPhone (or a full fledged computer for that matter). As for those of you that say "gee, just deactivate touch ID" I say think about how much sense it makes to detect a breach you KNOW about and deciding to leave the device vulnerable to attacks you DO NOT or MAY NOT know about rather than shut it down.

Is your identity and the contents of your phone worth less than $329 for a swap at an Apple Store? Actually, is it worth less than full price of an iPhone? If it is you probably should not own an iPhone or any other smart phone for that matter.

Please answer just one question:
How?

The phone is encrypted, the security enclave with your fingerprint-hash is encrypted, the scanner has only one connection and that's to the enclave module.

For your situation to become true there has to be a huge security issue with the encryption. If that's the case it wouldn't have anything to do with your fingerprint scanner and anyone could just steal your phone and decrypt it.
 



iPhone6s-back-front-250x349.jpg
Several law firms are considering lawsuits against Apple following news that the company disables iPhone 6 models that have third-party repairs that affect Touch ID, reports The Guardian. The "Error 53" controversy started last week when news circulated about customers who have had their iPhones disabled and rendered unusable by a mysterious "error 53" message.

It turns out Apple disables the iPhones of customers who have had unauthorized repairs on their devices. As explained in a thorough post from iFixit, a repair made by a third-party service using non-original components cannot pass a Touch ID validation check because mismatched parts don't sync up properly.

According to an Apple spokesperson, when the iPhone's parts can't be properly validated because of a repair done to a component affecting the Touch ID sensor, the error message is triggered in an intentional effort to keep Touch ID and the secure enclave that stores fingerprint information safe. Damaged phones also have the potential to give the error.A UK barrister told The Guardian disabling iPhones "could potentially be viewed as an offense" under the Criminal Damage Act 1971, which covers the destruction of property, and a Seattle-based law firm, PVCA said it wants to bring a class action lawsuit against Apple, calling on affected customers to get in contact. PVCA is planning to represent customers for free and has outlined the issue on its website, suggesting Apple is violating consumer laws by forcing customers to use Apple-sanctioned repair services.Apple may be planning to proactively head off lawsuits and assuage customer outrage. MacRumors has heard from a retail source that certain Apple Stores have received the go ahead from Apple to replace third-party screens and other third-party components to resolve the error 53 issue. The standard out-of-warranty fee is charged for the repairs and the replacement of non-genuine parts with Apple parts is limited to those affected by the error.

It is not yet clear if all Apple Stores have been authorized to repair error 53 iPhones as Apple's only official statement is that it's a security measure required to prevent fraudulent Touch ID sensors from being installed.

Article Link: Law Firms Consider 'Error 53' Lawsuits Against Apple as Some Stores Authorized for Repairs
[doublepost=1455098049][/doublepost]my iPhone got Touch ID not recognised by iPhone, and it got bricked after restore. It's like you lost the key of your house, and the seller say Your house is not secure anymore because you may lost your valuable furnitures , so I destroy all your house contents for you.
 
What if a Touch ID were replaced with a non-Apple Touch ID that continually sends numbers to the secure enclave until it gets the right one to open the phone? Basically that would be an easy way to compromise the whole system, depending on how long it would take for it to send enough numbers to brute force it. I guess it would depend on if it could do that in the background not limited by the 5 tries in iOS before requiring the passcode.
 
What if a Touch ID were replaced with a non-Apple Touch ID that continually sends numbers to the secure enclave until it gets the right one to open the phone? Basically that would be an easy way to compromise the whole system, depending on how long it would take for it to send enough numbers to brute force it. I guess it would depend on if it could do that in the background not limited by the 5 tries in iOS before requiring the passcode.

Brute forcing is only really viable on weak or flawed systems assuming you bypass any attempt limits.

Even then, the argument can be made that they could just disable touchID as opposed to the whole device.
 
Picture this scenario:

You visit Paraguay on a nice vacation and drop your iPhone causing the phone to break. You then feel that you need your phone; as you are on vacation, so you get it repaired. $50 US and you are good to go... Until you get home and come to realize that your touch ID had been stolen along with your CC info, back account number, social security #, etc. and to top that all off you have been subjected to key logging and camera MTM attacks making every photo you took and every keystroke you typed a piece of information the ID thieves (aka the 3rd party repairman) have and are using to enhance their wealth and ruin your life. That is the scenario you risk when you allow non-validated part swaps in a device like an iPhone (or a full fledged computer for that matter). As for those of you that say "gee, just deactivate touch ID" I say think about how much sense it makes to detect a breach you KNOW about and deciding to leave the device vulnerable to attacks you DO NOT or MAY NOT know about rather than shut it down.

Is your identity and the contents of your phone worth less than $329 for a swap at an Apple Store? Actually, is it worth less than full price of an iPhone? If it is you probably should not own an iPhone or any other smart phone for that matter.

Every repair company since the year dot requires them to tell you your keycode when you send a phone in for repair so that they can test it.

The scenario you've set out would also apply to a person in the US sending in their Samsung phone to a reputable repair company.
 
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Nope.

Swapping Touch ID components would not allow you to use anyone else's fingerprint.

The registered fingerprints data storage and matching is done in the Secure Enclave on the CPU, NOT by any Touch ID parts.

I thought this was the case but elected not to post it earlier as wasn't 100% certain. But it clearly makes a mockery of Apples claims. It really is all about more $$$$$ for them, nothing more, and if people choose not to see that so be it. Let's see what the British and American courts make of it.
 
Maybe Apple is concerned about malware being installed from the aftermarket parts into the phone's system. I don't use aftermarket vendors to repair my Apple tech so I side with Apple on protecting its system.
 
What if a Touch ID were replaced with a non-Apple Touch ID that continually sends numbers to the secure enclave until it gets the right one to open the phone? Basically that would be an easy way to compromise the whole system, depending on how long it would take for it to send enough numbers to brute force it. I guess it would depend on if it could do that in the background not limited by the 5 tries in iOS before requiring the passcode.
Apple's iOS Security guidelines say - and i quote: "...The fingerprint sensor is active only when the capacitive steel ring that surrounds the Home button detects the touch of a finger, which triggers the advanced imaging array to scan the finger and send the scan to the Secure Enclave..."

About the "Secure Enclave" the document states, that:
"...Communication between the Secure Enclave and the application processor is isolated to an interrupt-driven mailbox and shared memory data buffers..."

A malicious TouchID-sensor would have to trigger an interrupt every time it has written new data to the enclave's shared memory if it wants the processor to pass its stored fingerprint data back to the secure envlave to try to match it.

A brute-force attack would therefore always cause "interrupt storming" - something that never goes unnoticed or unpunished by ANY Operating System of the last decades. The kernel reacts by trying to shut down the device driver (never seen this working), calling panic() (works but system freezes) or initiate a reboot.

Apple's iOS Security document is a bit vage on the question, whether 5 failed attempts to unlock the iPhone with biometric data or 5 failed attempts to execute ANY action with biometric data promts a security response...While the latter would clearly make more sense...

Guys, this whole thing smells like fish...and it's not me, trying to troll... Just trying to figure out, what's going on...
 
Then have them come out and say "we have discovered a vulnerability and..."
They did. It's in the OP.
"Without this unique pairing, a malicious touch ID sensor could be substituted, thereby gaining access to the secure enclave."

Bricking is technically ransomeware done physical.
Again, Apple has no obligation to support improperly installed hardware. They don't have to design a system that works with incorrectly installed parts. The lack of secure pairing is what causes the device to brick.

The repeated theory that Apple would do something that you claim is illegal for the paltry sum of money this would generate is ludicrous.
 
Picture this scenario:

You visit Paraguay on a nice vacation and drop your iPhone causing the phone to break. You then feel that you need your phone; as you are on vacation, so you get it repaired. $50 US and you are good to go... Until you get home and come to realize that your touch ID had been stolen along with your CC info, back account number, social security #, etc. and to top that all off you have been subjected to key logging and camera MTM attacks making every photo you took and every keystroke you typed a piece of information the ID thieves (aka the 3rd party repairman) have and are using to enhance their wealth and ruin your life. That is the scenario you risk when you allow non-validated part swaps in a device like an iPhone (or a full fledged computer for that matter). As for those of you that say "gee, just deactivate touch ID" I say think about how much sense it makes to detect a breach you KNOW about and deciding to leave the device vulnerable to attacks you DO NOT or MAY NOT know about rather than shut it down.

Is your identity and the contents of your phone worth less than $329 for a swap at an Apple Store? Actually, is it worth less than full price of an iPhone? If it is you probably should not own an iPhone or any other smart phone for that matter.
I’d like your comments on the post above yours please as it’s far more likely than the drivel you posted.
[doublepost=1455110900][/doublepost]
Only going on what i experienced with Vauxhall less than a couple of months ago and from here back in 2012 :-

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/35704/watchdog-keeping-your-warranty-valid

"European Block Exemption rules mean manufacturers can’t invalidate your guarantee for not using a franchised dealer – as long as the garage follows the maker’s service schedule and uses original equipment parts"
I may have to have another look. The thing is the original equipment is often far exceeded by aftermarket pattern parts. That shouldn’t invalidate a warranty unless it transfers stresses elsewhere.
 
They did. It's in the OP.
"Without this unique pairing, a malicious touch ID sensor could be substituted, thereby gaining access to the secure enclave."
.

So are you saying that before the OS update(s) - Apple's secure enclave was actually not as secure as Apple made it out to be? Afterall - they are saying that a "tainted" scanner could gain access. Hmmm don't remember Apple mentioning anything about that when talking about how secure their device is - especially when promoting Apple Pay.

I'm saying this tongue in cheek - but it does make one wonder. I know a lot of people on here insisted that Apple Pay couldn't be hacked - and yet?
 
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i find it quite hilarious how some people are actually defending Apple on this. Open your eyes for once, start using your brains and stop defending Apple at any cost.
 
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So are you saying that before the OS update(s) - Apple's secure enclave was actually not as secure as Apple made it out to be? Afterall - they are saying that a "tainted" scanner could gain access. Hmmm don't remember Apple mentioning anything about that when talking about how secure their device is - especially when promoting Apple Pay.
That's what I worried about when I saw this post. As I said earlier, while a lot of people were pissed that they closed a security hole, I was concerned that that the hole was open. Why don't they verify the chain of trust immediately after any repair? Hopefully, they've addressed this before it's been exploited.

I'm saying this tongue in cheek - but it does make one wonder. I know a lot of people on here insisted that Apple Pay couldn't be hacked - and yet?
Yep. Although I would place hardware hacks and software hacks in different categories.
 
I’d like your comments on the post above yours please as it’s far more likely than the drivel you posted.
[doublepost=1455110900][/doublepost]
I may have to have another look. The thing is the original equipment is often far exceeded by aftermarket pattern parts. That shouldn’t invalidate a warranty unless it transfers stresses elsewhere.
I suspect the issue is that many parts potentially arent better than original ones so short of having some sort of aftermarket part testing and approval process which isnt going to happen they stick to original parts that they know and if there is an issue down the line they take the hit on the warranty. Personally i'd rather not get into a messy this part is better than your part argument should we have an issue on a year old car we've forked out a lot of money for should we have an issue after having work done on the car.
 
It isn't Apple's responsibility to support improper third-party repairs. It would be nice though. And they are actually being nice according to the OP.

They aren't supporting third party parts. How are you even getting to that?! Just saying "Hey if you use a non-Apple part if anything goes wrong it's not our fault guys" to which most people go "Fair enough".

That's literally the extent of the issue here.

Literally.
 
I suspect the issue is that many parts potentially arent better than original ones so short of having some sort of aftermarket part testing and approval process which isnt going to happen they stick to original parts that they know and if there is an issue down the line they take the hit on the warranty. Personally i'd rather not get into a messy this part is better than your part argument should we have an issue on a year old car we've forked out a lot of money for should we have an issue after having work done on the car.
With a year old car there is a lot of money at stake. That said, I should be able to use Bosch brake pads/alternator etc. etc. without invalidating the warranty. These parts have already undergone type approval.

As an aside. It seem the Aussies think Tim is a drongo too;
http://www.crn.com.au/News/414907,accc-to-pursue-apple-on-deliberately-bricked-iphones.aspx
 
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They did. It's in the OP.
"Without this unique pairing, a malicious touch ID sensor could be substituted, thereby gaining access to the secure enclave."


Again, Apple has no obligation to support improperly installed hardware. They don't have to design a system that works with incorrectly installed parts. The lack of secure pairing is what causes the device to brick.

The repeated theory that Apple would do something that you claim is illegal for the paltry sum of money this would generate is ludicrous.

I am not convinced a lack of secure pairing opens up the iPhone to hacking; Apple can simply disable the functionality of touchID if the secure pairing cannot be verified; There is no reason to "brick" the rest of phone.

As for motivation, part of Apple's business model is to force you to take your iPhone to the Apple store for repair; and when you get there, convince you to replace your phone rather than perform minor repairs (e.g. cracked glass, unbend a bent frame, replace $5 parts, etc...). If they can overcome the legal challenges, they will have essentially made an iPhone with defective/bad home button unrepairable to the average consumer (and their advertising should reflect such so consumers can make an informed buying decision).
 
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