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Lawsuit by Apple Retail Employees Over Off-the-Clock Bag Searches Dismissed
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Perhaps most of them aren't? Why are we even still splitting hairs on this unrelated issue at all? The issue isn't lunch boxes but the unreasonable amount of time some stores were taking to do their searches.
I don't know if it's quite as clear cut as your post seems to be making it.
I worked for Apple Retail extremely part-time (10-15 hours/week) several years ago and got hired on at $11.25/hour (in a state where the minimum wage was $7.25/hour). That was more than some assistant managers made at other stores inside of the mall.
Apple was also the only retailer in the mall that reimbursed hourly employees for parking in the "pay to park" mall garage (or reimbursed you for public transit costs).
They'd cater in often during the holiday season so employees wouldn't have to try and fight the lines at the food courts during their breaks.
They also gave benefits to full-time employees (who weren't management), which again, wasn't something common in that mall.
So yeah, the whole bag check think is a less than ideal thing, but you seem to be using that to paint Apple Retail with an awfully wide brush. They're not perfect, but they were (and from the feedback I get with my friends that still work there) a hell of a lot better than the 95% of the retailers out there in terms of how they treat their retail staff.
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As has been pointed out many time already, your employer pays you for your time even if you are doing no "productive" work you are "engaged to wait". This is basic FLSA, the question is how to interpret the 1947 portal-to-portal act when preliminary and postliminary activities, mandated by company policy and with 0 benefit for the employee add considerable time to your shift. The current ruling by the SCOTUS defies even basic logic and is very disconnected from reality. We need the DOL and/or congress to clarify or put limits on this brazen taking from hourly workers.
But that's why the current law is written the way it is! You need to read up on the history of these issues before posting nonsense.
In the early days of the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), certain terms like "workday" and "workweek" were not defined, and courts interpreted them broadly, to include compensable time as basically any time an employee was on the employers premises. However, that caused a flood of litigation -- 1500 lawsuits for over $6 billion back pay in 6 months, and this was in the 1940s. Congress saw this and acted to define what is and is not compensable time. The law that passed explicitly excludes certain preliminary and postliminary activities from the scope of compensable work. The Court merely applied that definition to the case at hand and told the employees to take a hike because it was crystal clear the bag inspections were not within the legal definition of compensable time.
That's exactly the thing, they don't have to stay and wait if they don't want to. It's 100% their choice as to whether or not they bring a bag. Don't want to wait? Don't bring a bag.
Or we could just blame the fact that apple had to search bags because staff were stealing. No theft, no searches.
We all pay more for things because of theft....I would love to not have to insure my car against theft or my home, but people are bad and we all pay a price. So staff at Apple have to wait 5 mins more after work. Big deal.
Issue is a retail store with unrestricted access to public during operating hours is considered a public space. From that, no rights are sacrificed upon entry. Even "subject to search" notices can be claimed as illeagle. To go further, look into the case history and merchant law.
There is a difference between something being legal, and something being ethical and/or moral.
Aside from that, you should ask Apple their opinion on whether a judicial ruling is the "end of story." Just mention United States v. Apple Inc.
So the choice is not whether or not they want to wait, but whether or not they have a bag. Not the same thing. If an employer needs something more from people who bring a bag--which is not some sort of a privilege thing that some exceptional people use, but a completely normal and regular and reasonable item that has been used in life of humans for ages when they go somewhere--then they need to appropriately support that as well.
Has anyone been able to find the opinion in the case? Or, does anyone know what the parties names were? I can't find it on the Northern District Court website or through Pacer. I only see the Samsung one and old ones from 2011 in Pacer.
The logical answer to all of your questions is, you don't know. And your assumption about Apple employees wasting company time texting, going by your logic, is probably based on the egregious amount of time you spend texting on your job. Amazing how some people who don't know anything opine about the things other people do.
So in your universe all wrongs make a right?
That ruling clearly indicates that that judge doesn't function in the real world
It is not an assumption; it is a logical inference based upon observation of the retail environment. And please - leave the personal attacks somewhere else. It is extremely petty and childish.
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On the same principal as you can't check in at an airport go back out and come right back in or it would defeat the whole purpose of being searched.
So now your argument is that all bags brought to work are "silly elephant belly bags"? Are you familiar with the term "brown nose"? Because you certainly sound like one.
I think there needs to be a "split-the-difference" law in cases like this. While preliminary and postliminary activities (including bag checks) should be off the clock, there needs to be a reasonableness test here, otherwise we may end up with companies "requiring" 2 hours of preliminary activity per day. (i.e. cleaning, counting, inventory off-the-clock)
so, something like 10 minutes max per shift for employer required off-the-clock activities after which it becomes on-the-clock (starting from the first minute)
as a poster a few pages back stated that he was placed in the back to wait for bag check and forgot about for over an hour; whats to keep some company from "requiring" bag checks and simply making employees wait 5 hours?
so, something like 10 minutes max per shift for employer required off-the-clock activities after which it becomes on-the-clock (starting from the first minute)
as a poster a few pages back stated that he was placed in the back to wait for bag check and forgot about for over an hour; whats to keep some company from "requiring" bag checks and simply making employees wait 5 hours?
If it only takes 5 seconds, what is the big deal about paying for 5 seconds extra work?
If it takes 30 minutes, you understand why the employees want to be paid for being forced to stay at work 30 minutes longer. What if you need to catch a bus or pick up a child from school?
The only way I know to incentivize the company to expedite the searches is to charge them for it (hourly employee rates).
Just because the searches YOU went through at YOUR work went quickly does not mean that everyone was so fortunate. The fact that I had a positive interaction with a police officer once does not mean that the one in LA beating up a 70 year old homeless woman was acting right.
Someone else suggested a bag check-in to eliminate the need for searches. This is similar to my idea for a kind of firewall: Bags stay on this side, company property on that side. No searches required.
If it takes 30 minutes, you understand why the employees want to be paid for being forced to stay at work 30 minutes longer. What if you need to catch a bus or pick up a child from school?
The only way I know to incentivize the company to expedite the searches is to charge them for it (hourly employee rates).
Just because the searches YOU went through at YOUR work went quickly does not mean that everyone was so fortunate. The fact that I had a positive interaction with a police officer once does not mean that the one in LA beating up a 70 year old homeless woman was acting right.
Someone else suggested a bag check-in to eliminate the need for searches. This is similar to my idea for a kind of firewall: Bags stay on this side, company property on that side. No searches required.
I haven't had this experience at my store. The company is actually great to work for. Awesome benefits (more than just discounts) and extremely qualified leadership teams. I'm relatively new, but it's the best retail/service company I have ever worked for.
That said, I am bothered by this bag search policy, especially given Apple's customer policies. The next time you go into an Apple Store, take note of the entrance. You might notice something absent – though to be honest most of you won't because most people take this Apple Retail policy for granted. There are no anti-theft systems at the entrances. That's not an illusion. There is actually nothing keeping shoplifters from snatching up a charger and leaving the store. This is intentional. Apple uses a system similar to the honor system at its retail locations.
You can even check yourself out. I don't mean with a mirror. You can use your iPhone with the Apple Store app to pay for in-store items without checking in with an employee. Grab, pay, stow away in a purse and leave. That is completely acceptable at our stores and it shocks customers every time I point it out.
So if it's good enough for customers, why not for employees? Food for thought.
This is retail! REI is one of the top 100 companies (believe they were #21) to work for and they do a bag search when their employees leave. This is very common in retail.
Yes, from my experience most checks take less then 30 seconds because security checking bags don't actually check every single little pocket in your bag. Unless you bring a suitcase to your work.
Bags are always checked either by other sales personnel or most likely security guys. Nobody gets a manager for this task, and if they do, they are doing it wrong. If you bring several bags to work, maybe you should stop doing that. And they check after clocking out because they have to check them at the door, before person leaves. If you allow that person to walk back through the store and into the back room after checking his/her bag, what's the point of checking bags then? Should companies reimburse you for your walk to the door from the back room as well? That actually takes longer than a bag check.
So all the people that have experiences that show otherwise are basically liars then because someone somehow knows that such a thing simply can't be the case anywhere at anytime?
Given what you are describing about bag checks is not how it's mostly done at Apple stores based on many examples of it being otherwise.
Because most theft in retail come from... Employees.... They also have access to the best stuff usually and can steal in a very discrete way. Not just talking about Apple here. I'm guessing theft by employees was a major issue or they wouldn't be doing this.
I do agree that expecting people not to go to work with a bag is a bit ridiculous; but, hey the court has deemed it so...