Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
People can uptalk apple all they want, but they are a long term practitioner and masterof planed obsolescence. If you refuse to see this while they sell you SSD space and RAM at a crazy premium price i don't know what to tell you. And of cause you could find a way to plug in a micro SD somewhere in your iPad rather than having to buy a new one when you notice that 32gb is not that much in 2020.
I will argue that this all still comes down to Apple being a design-led company, rather than an engineering-led one.

Apple doesn't do removable batteries because it undercuts their design philosophy. Apple is all about minimalism and purity in hardware design. In the eyes of Steve Jobs and Jony Ive, perfect products are made by cutting out everything not absolutely required in the design. To them, it's about creating products that are cut down to their absolute most basic form, with nothing standing between the user and the device. The products aren't about having the most features or being the "most useful", but about distilling out the purest mixture of form and function possible.

It's obviously not something everyone agrees upon, but it bears remembering that this is all through the eyes of Apple's design department, not the general population. And while you may disagree, you have to admit that Apple is close to correct. No media device saw the success of the iPod in its heyday, because of the flawless mix of usability and beauty. Up until the iPhone, phones were devices used by phone companies to sell service plans. People talk about the "planned obsolescence" of the iPhone because of the removable battery, but they don't remember the crap phones from decades years ago that fell apart if you sneezed on them. Sure, you could replace the battery, but the battery lasted like six months. Yeah, the phones took removable media, but the internal memory was measured in tens of megabytes, not the gigabytes we have now. Apple's design philosophy, whether or not you agree with it, has totally reshaped the phone and computer industries over the past decade, because it works, and we are better off for it.

So what does this have to do with replaceable media? Simple. Apple believes that it's better to have a high capacity, monolithic phone than one with an extra "feature" that many people don't care about, or even need. Sure, there will be some users who want it, but Apple doesn't care about that. If they listened to what people wanted, we wouldn't have the iPhone, iPad, or anything else like them on the market. No one wanted an iPad when it was announced, until they started using them. For the people that do truly need removable media for whatever reason, Apple really doesn't care about them. It's sort of a niche feature, and Apple has proved time and time again that they don't care about niche features or markets (See: 17" MBP, XServe, Airport, iPod Classic, or other useful products that Apple has either discontinued or left for dead.)

You see the same philosophy in the lack of removable battery. Apple has decided that doing so would sacrifice the integrity and the beauty of the phone were the battery made removable, and I will argue that they are right. Having a solid frame with an internal battery makes the phone more durable than it would be at the same form with a removable battery, and the battery lasts longer too, because it can be built larger within the phone. Why not just make the phone bigger? Because that would compromise the design principles. Again, Apple is trying to make the most pure product possible, in their eyes. Thin, light, yet uncompromising simplicity is the goal here.

That, not a huge feature list, is what Apple believes makes a product good.

It only looks like forced obsolescence to the uninitiated.
 
I used to think I was saving money if I could replace my own battery which is probably true. However I changed my mind. I had MBP early 2008 which had a self-replaceable battery. I always bought Apple batteries to replace the computer battery when I needed it. However, the last time I bought a battery for it, was one on eBay, a used, but compatible battery. It worked for quite awhile with no problems, but one day it expanded and almost damaged my computer. Fortunately I caught before it did any damage. Now I think I rather be "rest assured" if Apple replaces the battery.
 
I will argue that this all still comes down to Apple being a design-led company, rather than an engineering-led one.

Apple doesn't do removable batteries because it undercuts their design philosophy. Apple is all about minimalism and purity in hardware design. In the eyes of Steve Jobs and Jony Ive, perfect products are made by cutting out everything not absolutely required in the design. To them, it's about creating products that are cut down to their absolute most basic form, with nothing standing between the user and the device. The products aren't about having the most features or being the "most useful", but about distilling out the purest mixture of form and function possible.

It's obviously not something everyone agrees upon, but it bears remembering that this is all through the eyes of Apple's design department, not the general population. And while you may disagree, you have to admit that Apple is close to correct. No media device saw the success of the iPod in its heyday, because of the flawless mix of usability and beauty. Up until the iPhone, phones were devices used by phone companies to sell service plans. People talk about the "planned obsolescence" of the iPhone because of the removable battery, but they don't remember the crap phones from decades years ago that fell apart if you sneezed on them. Sure, you could replace the battery, but the battery lasted like six months. Yeah, the phones took removable media, but the internal memory was measured in tens of megabytes, not the gigabytes we have now. Apple's design philosophy, whether or not you agree with it, has totally reshaped the phone and computer industries over the past decade, because it works, and we are better off for it.

So what does this have to do with replaceable media? Simple. Apple believes that it's better to have a high capacity, monolithic phone than one with an extra "feature" that many people don't care about, or even need. Sure, there will be some users who want it, but Apple doesn't care about that. If they listened to what people wanted, we wouldn't have the iPhone, iPad, or anything else like them on the market. No one wanted an iPad when it was announced, until they started using them. For the people that do truly need removable media for whatever reason, Apple really doesn't care about them. It's sort of a niche feature, and Apple has proved time and time again that they don't care about niche features or markets (See: 17" MBP, XServe, Airport, iPod Classic, or other useful products that Apple has either discontinued or left for dead.)

You see the same philosophy in the lack of removable battery. Apple has decided that doing so would sacrifice the integrity and the beauty of the phone were the battery made removable, and I will argue that they are right. Having a solid frame with an internal battery makes the phone more durable than it would be at the same form with a removable battery, and the battery lasts longer too, because it can be built larger within the phone. Why not just make the phone bigger? Because that would compromise the design principles. Again, Apple is trying to make the most pure product possible, in their eyes. Thin, light, yet uncompromising simplicity is the goal here.

That, not a huge feature list, is what Apple believes makes a product good.

It only looks like forced obsolescence to the uninitiated.

Very nicely argued.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Abazigal
Never had a problem with my battery but goodbye water resistance if Apple is forced to do this.
As things stand now, your phone’s water resistance is only good until your first battery replacement or repair. Apple doesn’t warrant the protection if either occurs while the over all warranty is still effective. How can they? The protection is a flimsy gasket no thicker than dental floss. Explains why Apple is more likely to swap your unit if it’s still under warranty.

More users are delaying new phone purchases. Cook admitted they were surprised by the demand for battery replacements following the Batterygate fiasco. This is probably another side effect or consequence of that misstep.

Personally, I don’t believe that a user-replaceable battery is necessary given that the batteries last as long as they do. However, I do believe that there should be a law to ensure that a battery can be replaced. If left to Apple, they’ll eventually force a totally-unserviceable product on everyone and expect customers to purchase device replacement warranties.
 
I used to think I was saving money if I could replace my own battery which is probably true. However I changed my mind. I had MBP early 2008 which had a self-replaceable battery. I always bought Apple batteries to replace the computer battery when I needed it. However, the last time I bought a battery for it, was one on eBay, a used, but compatible battery. It worked for quite awhile with no problems, but one day it expanded and almost damaged my computer. Fortunately I caught before it did any damage. Now I think I rather be "rest assured" if Apple replaces the battery.
It’s no guarantee. I had two OEM Macbook batteries deform. The genius (whose knowledge I used to trust at that time) assumed the original battery had expired. When it happened as well to the replacement battery months later, he was stumped. My hunch is that watchever regulates the charging process failed to properly do so and the batteries overcharged. The other possibility is that the replacement OEM battery was defective.
 



Leaked proposals from the European Union suggest that smartphone manufacturers in the EU could be forced to make all batteries removable in the future. This would mean that any smartphone brand wanting to sell a handheld in the EU, including Apple, would have to ensure that every device on the market has a user-removable battery (via TechRadar).

ifixit-iphone-x-battery-tabs.jpg
Image via iFixit


This proposal is said to be a long way from being confirmed as it's not even out in the public yet. The documents were leaked by Dutch publication Het Financieele Dagblad, which suggested that the proposal will be officially unveiled in March.

Apple has always made its iPhones with non-removable batteries, encouraging users to take their devices in to specialists if they ever face issues with degrading batteries. The leaked EU proposals suggest that users shouldn't have to rely on outside help in these situations, and that they should be able to simply swap the battery out on their own.

The iPhone would have to undergo massive design changes to comply with a removable battery design. With a removable battery, the iPhone would potentially lose features like waterproofing and a slim design.

Apple is already pushing back against one ongoing change in the European Union, related to a common charging standard for mobile devices. The European Parliament wants one charger to fit all smartphones, tablets, and other portable devices, with the likely candidate to be USB-C.

This could make the Lightning port on current iPhone models incompatible with the law, and Apple's current stance is that the iPhone is too thin to house a USB-C port. Given that the company disagreed with the charging standard vote, it's likely that if the removable battery proposal ever becomes real legislation in the EU, Apple will once again push back against the proposal.

Article Link: Leaked Documents Suggest Apple Could Be Forced to Build iPhones With User-Removable Batteries in Europe
Apple should do this here in America.
 



Leaked proposals from the European Union suggest that smartphone manufacturers in the EU could be forced to make all batteries removable in the future. This would mean that any smartphone brand wanting to sell a handheld in the EU, including Apple, would have to ensure that every device on the market has a user-removable battery (via TechRadar).

ifixit-iphone-x-battery-tabs.jpg

Image via iFixit


This proposal is said to be a long way from being confirmed as it's not even out in the public yet. The documents were leaked by Dutch publication Het Financieele Dagblad, which suggested that the proposal will be officially unveiled in March.

Apple has always made its iPhones with non-removable batteries, encouraging users to take their devices in to specialists if they ever face issues with degrading batteries. The leaked EU proposals suggest that users shouldn't have to rely on outside help in these situations, and that they should be able to simply swap the battery out on their own.

The iPhone would have to undergo massive design changes to comply with a removable battery design. With a removable battery, the iPhone would potentially lose features like waterproofing and a slim design.

Apple is already pushing back against one ongoing change in the European Union, related to a common charging standard for mobile devices. The European Parliament wants one charger to fit all smartphones, tablets, and other portable devices, with the likely candidate to be USB-C.

This could make the Lightning port on current iPhone models incompatible with the law, and Apple's current stance is that the iPhone is too thin to house a USB-C port. Given that the company disagreed with the charging standard vote, it's likely that if the removable battery proposal ever becomes real legislation in the EU, Apple will once again push back against the proposal.

Article Link: Leaked Documents Suggest Apple Could Be Forced to Build iPhones With User-Removable Batteries in Europe
Good luck making it sort of waterproof.
 
EU is right about this. It is mandatory to make it user-replaceable.
[automerge]1583222193[/automerge]
The comparison is absolutely valid.

why?

Replaceable battery doesn’t result in lack of ports or water resistance, like the OP claimed.

like I said previously, good designers can still design a good looking stylish product.
[automerge]1582916023[/automerge]

All of them. Reason - It’s not bulky.

waterproofing plus replaceable battery doesn’t automatically result in a bulky product. Something quite a few people overlook.

I couldn't agree more. It is a trivial task to make it user-removable battery without making the device thicker and Apple is creating billion of e-waste because of greediness.
 
Last edited:
The phone manufacturers have only got themselves to blame for this. Samsung, Nokia and Apple have recently had issues with batteries in their phones but because the battery is locked inside the phone, it means the whole phone has to be returned instead of just the battery. Customers should not be invonvienced in this manner due to poor battery quality control from the phone manufacturers.
 
Stop right there, your post barely makes any sense at all.

What about it doesn’t make sense?

The problem here is that you are all looking at this purely from an engineering perspective, and automatically assume the worst of Apple for doing what they are doing with their batteries. The phone is bad simply because you can’t swap batteries, end of story.

There is too much focus on specs and not enough on the user experience.

There is not enough of “how does one use this product to get more out of technology”.

I happen to see things a little differently, in that I tend to approach these topics from Apple’s perspective. I begin with Apple, and then I look outwards at different industries. By contrast, other people tend to cover an industry, then they attempt to draw a link to Apple from time to time. I feel this tends to lead to error and inaccurate analysis, because you are comparing Apple too much to other companies, and you are not allowing Apple’s unique attributes to speak for themselves or recognise how Apple is able to set themselves apart from the competition.

And their design decisions, however idiosyncratic and illogical they may seem, are ultimately geared towards enabling the best product experience from Apple’s perspective.

And looking at their earnings, I will say that Apple’s design decisions seem to have resonated with consumers more often than not.
 
Most of the people are throwing out the whole device due to non-user replaceable part and that will make e-waste a big problem for the government.
....
Does anyone buy a new car because their brakes need replacement? Why spend $1k on a new premium handset for a $50 battery replacement.
 
Does anyone buy a new car because their brakes need replacement? Why spend $1k on a new premium handset for a $50 battery replacement.
This.

One could argue that the prices that Apple charges might be a little more expensive than what a handphone repair shop might quote, but that doesn't mean you can't get your iPhone battery replaced. It just means you need to spend a little more and maybe travel a little further to get it done, and it also means it can be done.
 
  • Angry
Reactions: Enerccio
It is absolutely possible to have a user-removable battery without compromising.
And you can turn that opinion into a fact?
Tim Cook should be fired for many reasons!
Starting with the 91B in revenue last quarter?
The EU is very concern about an enormous amount of increase in e-waste due to Apple gradually making every part of its product non-user-replaceable.
Maybe Apple should design a specific box model for the EU. No form or function but parts are completely replaceable.
 
I used to think I was saving money if I could replace my own battery which is probably true. However I changed my mind. I had MBP early 2008 which had a self-replaceable battery. I always bought Apple batteries to replace the computer battery when I needed it. However, the last time I bought a battery for it, was one on eBay, a used, but compatible battery. It worked for quite awhile with no problems, but one day it expanded and almost damaged my computer. Fortunately I caught before it did any damage. Now I think I rather be "rest assured" if Apple replaces the battery.
blame apple for not selling batteries because "**** you give me money"
 
if it is about regulation, what about mandating security updates for each released smartphone for at least 5 years or so. there are so many things that would keep one from using an older device, and ageing batteries are just one of them. and guess what, battery repair shops on almost every city district will replace the degraded ones in a bliss just for a few coins. strangely none of my iPhones actually needed battery replacement with 3 years of day-to-day heavy usage. so if this phenomenon only occurs every 3 years, i can totally spend that 20-30$ on replacing the battery in a shop _if_ it is required.
Don't confuse your whataboutism with the issue at hand; 5 years of guaranteed security updated would be appreciated just as much. So would mandating that carriers don't drop older spectrums and phone manufacturers sell phones with CPUs powerful enough to last 5 years. In the end, we can't legislate every possibility. What we can do, is try to curb the biggest offenses, one of which is battery longevity.
 
It is absolutely possible to have a user-removable battery without compromising.

It obviously isn't.

You can make a reasonably thin and light and nice phone with a user-removable battery. But you can't take the current iPhone design and add a door. The components inside are cramped. So much, in fact, that on the iPhone XS, they had to go with an L-shaped design of two adjacent batteries. A single rectangular one wouldn't have fit.

So yes, if you want to make it easier to remove, you'll have to compromise. Remove some components. Make the device thicker. Make the battery (and therefore its capacity) smaller. One of those.
[automerge]1583271519[/automerge]
The phone manufacturers have only got themselves to blame for this. Samsung, Nokia and Apple have recently had issues with batteries in their phones but because the battery is locked inside the phone, it means the whole phone has to be returned instead of just the battery. Customers should not be invonvienced in this manner due to poor battery quality control from the phone manufacturers.

I don't know what you mean with Nokia, but Samsung and Apple are very different cases.

Certainly, customers of the iPhone 6, etc. were significantly "inconvenienced", although I'm not sure how much an easier battery replacement would have lessened the inconvenience: really, the main issue there was that Apple chose, arrogantly and not smartly, to not inform users properly of what was happening. If they had informed users (as the Settings app now does) that the battery can no longer maintain its usual voltage, then yes, users would have benefitted from easier replacement — but the main issue is that users had no idea at all that the battery was the problem.

As for Samsung's case: I assume you're referencing the Note 7 fires. Easy battery replacement wouldn't have helped at all. It turns out, after all, that even switching battery vendors(!) didn't help Samsung at all, because the issues were in the design of the phone itself. The batteries weren't failing; the phones were using them inappropriately. If your car leaks gasoline, a refill isn't going to fix that.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Steve63
The European Union is trying to get involved in our lives on a micro level. Deciding what we buy and what companies produce. It's almost like a big communist state. Except that it's just a governmental body on top of everybody's own government and no country is a communist state on it's own. One forced thing isn't that hard, but they already decide on what kind of light we can use in our lamps and the amount of watts our vacuum cleaner are allowed to use. It may seem for the greater good, but it's all so restrictive. There is no real benefit in it.
Hi, i am living in the EU and i have to agree here (at least for a part of your post...). The intention Of the EU is usually not a bad one. It is better when batteries can be replaced in a simple ans cost effective way. I have my iPad for 3 years now - battery is degrading. But bringing this to Apple for battery replacement ist just too much of an effort and very expensive too. I‘d rather buy a new one then... And this is exactly what the EU tries to fight for. That electronic devices have a much longer lifetime than the usual 3-4 years they have now. I consider this a good thing. The downside of this is, that they sometimes stifle progress here. For example, they advocated for the micro-USB connector as a „universal“ one across Europe. This was just a very bad decision because this port is just too fragile - Apples Lightning connector is so must better. And because they have so much power, their decisions affect a huge market.
Apple should really try harder to make their products a little more „repair friendly“. I would guess they can do this without compromising performance or design of their devices.
 
  • Like
Reactions: katbel
Hi, i am living in the EU and i have to agree here (at least for a part of your post...). The intention Of the EU is usually not a bad one. It is better when batteries can be replaced in a simple ans cost effective way. I have my iPad for 3 years now - battery is degrading. But bringing this to Apple for battery replacement ist just too much of an effort and very expensive too. I‘d rather buy a new one then... And this is exactly what the EU tries to fight for. That electronic devices have a much longer lifetime than the usual 3-4 years they have now. I consider this a good thing. The downside of this is, that they sometimes stifle progress here. For example, they advocated for the micro-USB connector as a „universal“ one across Europe. This was just a very bad decision because this port is just too fragile - Apples Lightning connector is so must better. And because they have so much power, their decisions affect a huge market.
Apple should really try harder to make their products a little more „repair friendly“. I would guess they can do this without compromising performance or design of their devices.
This is a thoughtful and informative posting for me over here in California ... thanks very much! My guess is that it's more difficult to make devices "repair friendly" than we might expect ... especially when you factor in things that are very real, but which people don't think about all that much, like waterproofing. It might be very hard to do a repair which is otherwise simple, but which to be successful needs to preserve the waterproof-ness (if there is such a word!) of the device. All best && cheers 🍸😸
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.