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First, you must be happy by yourself before you can be happy with someone else.

Don't worry about dating for a while. Take some time to pursure some activities you enjoy, preferably some activities that involve exercise and/or socialization. Or volunteer somewhere. Do some fun things that take your mind off dating.
 
First, you must be happy by yourself before you can be happy with someone else.

Don't worry about dating for a while. Take some time to pursure some activities you enjoy, preferably some activities that involve exercise and/or socialization. Or volunteer somewhere. Do some fun things that take your mind off dating.

Thanks man, I guess that's what I've got to do. It's a bit harder for me though, since the only thing keeping me down is my lack of dating skills. The rest of my life is good, and yet I have trouble enjoying that... But I guess I'll just have to figure that out.

Abstract said:
We're here to help.
lol :D. I guess as long as I have a sense of humor I'm not that bad.
 
How many ways can she say "NO"?

You'll get over her.

I suggest Bacardi 151°.

Geez smokey, way to go on the sympathy :(

Anywho, much as many of us here would hate to admit it we are all (desperately?) seeking someone and you and I just happen to wear our feelings on our sleeves despite the reactions we may experience.

DONT TURN TO BOOZE

Been there, done that.

You are severely attracted to this girl because she is just out of reach and that the facts - jack!

It is a challenge that you feel you must take up and you're using the excuse of being in love. Don't get me wrong, you may honestly be in love with her, but she is just out of reach and until you find something better or convince her that she's in love with you you'll go on striving to make her yours!

Don't want to make this into a lecture, however I'm old and I've been there (I said that already?), many times.

Good luck and happy hunting and if you see the bunny (smokey that is), put a 00buck into him for me :D
 
I'm sorry you are struggling with all this, but I honestly think CanadaRAM gave you some excellent advice, and personal insight. You're not likely to get better from even your therapist. I won't go into any unethical issues there.

Anytime anyone has given you feedback that seemed dead on to me, you have come back with, "well you don't know the full story". I think more accurately? You are just not in a place to hear raw honesty in the moment. That's okay, you know. :) Take some time and think about what you've read here. Also, look at patterns in your past relationships (friends and more), and contemplate what you want for your future. Good luck to you. :)
 
First, you must be happy by yourself before you can be happy with someone else.
Yup. Both you and her need to be happy with yourselves. When you don't and enter into a relationship, the other person becomes your reason for everything. And when things go awry, your whole world collapses because you have have no support system for dealing with such things. So be happy with yourself and where you are in your life; realize that you don't need romantic love to validate yourself.
 
Anytime anyone has given you feedback that seemed dead on to me, you have come back with, "well you don't know the full story". I think more accurately? You are just not in a place to hear raw honesty in the moment. That's okay, you know. :)

Well it's just that I do have a lot of trust in my therapist. She helped my brother a lot, and thanks to her my family is much closer now. I realize that she's only human and that she might be wrong, but she does know more about the story. At least I'm certain that she means well.

I just can't seem to get over the fact that the undeserving guy got all the love and I couldn't even start a relationship. But I guess that's just life...

Thanks for your good wishes :)
 
To Floyde and Floyde only
Not for secondary dissemination,

You are an undisciplined person who can not handle yourself, your emotions, and your actions. Perception and lack of discipline make scenarios very different from what they are in reality.

Everyone has been there. No one is born with proverbial balls of steel and discipline. Discipline is earned through experience and experience only.

You need someone to dictate your life for the next 6 months or longer. This should be already self evident. This procedure is ONE way to build your discipline.

You will find that as your discipline increases so will your ability to comprehend a situation accurately. In turn you will be capable of making decisions that benefit you.

In order for this to work you must not question the instructions. There is no point if everything requires an explanation. Basic growth principle.

You need not a intelligent teacher. You need that figure head that will dictate what you will do. The do doesn't matter so much as the building of your discipline.

Sample Set of Instructions (Notice the definite periods at the ends)
1. Drop Therapy.
2. Work.
3. Pay of any obligations (Not the long term ones - have your teacher manage your money.).
4. Go join a active group (one that meets every single day of the week). Soccer works for a lot of people. The gym does not simply because no one will chew your ass out if you miss a day.
5. Do and keep doing. You must not stop. Keep to the program.
6. Watch and realize when someone else is calling your shots your problems have a habit of disappearing.

-------------------------------------------------------

The harsh reality is that childhood is the time to build discipline. Unfortunately not everyone's parents provided that. Not everyone had their "soccer" teams.

Build the discipline. Your life needs to structure. Otherwise it will be always (and I quote) "LIKE THIS".

Sincerely,



Dimitriy
 
To Floyde and Floyde only
Not for secondary dissemination,

...

You need someone to dictate your life for the next 6 months or longer. This should be already self evident. This procedure is ONE way to build your discipline.

...

1. Drop Therapy.

...

Are you a scientologist? :confused:
 
The reason the majority of the opinions here are "you can't get out of the friend zone" is because you can't get out of the friend zone. It doesn't happen. Your odds are barely better than zero. Getting out of the friend zone is akin to surviving a freefall without a parachute. It happens, and those it happens to become legends. Even if you think you're out, chances are you're not and you're just getting suckered.

mactastic is absolutely correct in your need to find something that makes you happy for you, preferably something that you can tie to your identity. Something that will let you say "I am ________" with confidence. Something that will let you do what you really need to do, and that is to move on with your life.
 
If the thought of being "just friends" is unbearable to you, I would suggest that you are not as good of a friend to her as you think you are.

A good friend would want her to be happy no matter what. The fact that you can't be happy for her as "just" her friend suggests that your romantic attraction to her is stronger than your friendship.

And if she isn't interested, there's not much you can do about it. Move on would be my advice. Truly be her friend and stop "making your feelings known".

Of course, once you start dating someone else, she'll likely want to be with you. People always want what they cannot have...

Well said.
 
Yeah right 'skillful and finely judged', like you know all :p
give us a break!

'skillful and finely judged' what crap!

dissemination, in the terminology of deconstruction, the dispersal of meanings among infinite possibilities; the effect of différance in the ‘free play’ of signification beyond the control of concepts or stable interpretation. Whereas ambiguity usually involves a limited number of possible meanings, dissemination is an endless proliferation of possibilities. See also indeterminacy.

#1 link from google. http://www.answers.com/topic/dissemination

As for the "scientologist" question allow me to clarify. I can see how my post may have been interpreted that way. By dictate your life I do not mean go join a religious cult/group/whatever and have them **** your life over.

Simply put you need an active mentor. Passive mentor won't do it for you.

Sometimes you just have to ask someone to be that for you. Its hard and often we have a complex that wants to block us from doing that but its worth the risk.

Dimitriy
 
dissemination, in the terminology of deconstruction, the dispersal of meanings among infinite possibilities; the effect of différance in the ‘free play’ of signification beyond the control of concepts or stable interpretation. Whereas ambiguity usually involves a limited number of possible meanings, dissemination is an endless proliferation of possibilities. See also indeterminacy.

So, worse than a scientologist: a postmodernist.

Quit making up (or borrowing) nonsense phrases with big words to make people think you're saying something and just say something. Or am I transgressively counterindicating the socio-anormative cognitive modalities of your metasemantic reference frame so as to disproportionately structuralize dubiously transcendent epistemo-metaphysical constructs?
 
So, worse than a scientologist: a postmodernist.

Quit making up (or borrowing) nonsense phrases with big words to make people think you're saying something and just say something. Or am I transgressively counterindicating the socio-anormative cognitive modalities of your metasemantic reference frame so as to disproportionately structuralize dubiously transcendent epistemo-metaphysical constructs?

Thank goodness I purchased a keyboard protector before reading that! ;)
 
Well I can be happy for her, it's me I'm worried about. I guess what I can't stand is that kind of rejection; when you know you're the best candidate and you've done so much, but it's simply not enough. It makes me feel like there's something wrong with me somehow.

Anyway, she keeps giving me this ups and downs. She even kissed me out of her own will a few times. Then she goes away, then she comes back again... over and over. I can be convinced that she's finally interested in me and then the next day she'll act completely cold.

Also important is the fact that she's going to therapy with the same shrink.






have you seen reign over me? :rolleyes::D
 
The reason the majority of the opinions here are "you can't get out of the friend zone" is because you can't get out of the friend zone. It doesn't happen. Your odds are barely better than zero. Getting out of the friend zone is akin to surviving a freefall without a parachute. It happens, and those it happens to become legends. Even if you think you're out, chances are you're not and you're just getting suckered.

mactastic is absolutely correct in your need to find something that makes you happy for you, preferably something that you can tie to your identity. Something that will let you say "I am ________" with confidence. Something that will let you do what you really need to do, and that is to move on with your life.

Maybe I'm meant to be a legend? I always thought that I could say "I am the one who proves everyone wrong" with confidence. I guess I'm too stubborn to follow sage advice right now. But don't worry, It won't last another year. I just want to make my last stand now that I've come this far, if only to get a bit of closure.

gregdrummeraz said:
have you seen reign over me?
Yeah I saw it with my friend actually. But I don't get what you mean. Am I in denial?
 
I just can't seem to get over the fact that the undeserving guy got all the love and I couldn't even start a relationship. But I guess that's just life...

This paragraph says all anyone needs to know about your chances. This isn't about her. It's about you. Guys don't do the white knight thing because they're wonderful altruistic people. They do it because their self-esteem is so damaged that they feel nobody would love them without a really good reason. That's why the white knight pursues wounded women. He thinks that if he can rescue the girl and in the process prove he is better than whatever unfortunate circumstances she came from, she'll fall in love with him out of sheer gratitude. But it's opportunistic, not altruistic.

And it doesn't work that way anyway. Puppy-dog-like solicitousness is never attractive, but here it just won't work, ever. She won't feel better about herself by taking up with you because she wouldn't have to overcome anything to get you. You serve a purpose here, but it's incompatible with the purpose you're after. You've taken it as your job to make her feel better, so how is she to know she deserves to feel better about herself when she's with you? You'll just automatically tell her she does no matter what. However, she does like hanging out with you because you pay attention to her, it's predictable and she's in control of how things go.

You imagine that you're helping her eventually get what she needs (which, surprise, surprise, happens to correspond exactly with what you need). Only you're not realizing she is getting what she needs from you, right this minute, and it's exactly the thing that's killing you. It won't turn into anything more.

There's a pattern particularly common among serial monogamists where the good-guy/bad-guy role you experienced in your last relationship gets reversed in your next relationship. It's the source of a lot of needless drama. That's what is happening to you here. She was trying to "rescue" a married guy from his no doubt shrewlike and frigid wife :)rolleyes:), bound up her self esteem in the idea that she was "better" than this horrible woman, and when she realized she wasn't going to win, it crushed her, because how horrible must she be if she isn't "better" than the woman she's heard so many awful things about? Now you're the rescuer. You're doing almost exactly the same thing, she's stringing you along in much the same way she herself was strung along, and the end for you is going to be the same as it was for her.

Maybe I'm meant to be a legend? I always thought that I could say "I am the one who proves everyone wrong" with confidence. I guess I'm too stubborn to follow sage advice right now. But don't worry, It won't last another year. I just want to make my last stand now that I've come this far, if only to get a bit of closure.


Yeah I saw it with my friend actually. But I don't get what you mean. Am I in denial?

Yes, you are in denial. You are listening only to things that say what you want to hear and rationalizing away the rest. It's normal to do that in your position, but it's still completely effed up, and the sooner you realize that the better off you're going to be. "Maybe I'm meant to be a legend?" Dude, I can tell you right now, you're not. This is not the situation you think it is.
 
If she keeps pushing you away when you try to get closer, it's not going to work out. I've been in this situation a couple of times and it's just the way it is. It doesn't matter what her circumstances are--if she's not receptive to growing closer to each other, then you're just plain not going to be able to grow closer.

You said, "I just can't seem to get over the fact that the undeserving guy got all the love and I couldn't even start a relationship." That's a pretty bad attitude to have. I've seen lots of girls (some whom I've been romantically interested in, some not) go out with guys who I thought were pretty undeserving, and yet many of them got married and still are. In my current situation, a couple of people who know both of us well spent MONTHS telling me that I didn't deserve her. I took a lot of satisfaction in telling them that she seems to think otherwise. :p Now this other guy was pretty obviously a rotten fellow (on account of cheating on his wife), but that's how things go sometimes. A fellow might do everything to deserve a woman's love, and yet she doesn't love him. It's not uncommon.

Even if you DO get together with this girl, what do you think will happen? Her habits of pushing you away when you start growing closer are likely to continue. Suppose that you want to marry her someday. Do you want to spend a year as an on-again, off-again couple while she gets accustomed to THAT idea?

If you really WOULD be good for each other, it wouldn't be this hard. Every solid relationship has its struggles, but this amount of struggle this early on should be a pretty clear indication that it's either the wrong person or the wrong time. And if it's the latter, you still would be best served by completely giving up on pursuing her romantically.
 
This paragraph says all anyone needs to know about your chances. This isn't about her. It's about you. Guys don't do the white knight thing because they're wonderful altruistic people. They do it because their self-esteem is so damaged that they feel nobody would love them without a really good reason. That's why the white knight pursues wounded women. He thinks that if he can rescue the girl and in the process prove he is better than whatever unfortunate circumstances she came from, she'll fall in love with him out of sheer gratitude. But it's opportunistic, not altruistic.

And it doesn't work that way anyway. Puppy-dog-like solicitousness is never attractive, but here it just won't work, ever. She won't feel better about herself by taking up with you because she wouldn't have to overcome anything to get you. You serve a purpose here, but it's incompatible with the purpose you're after. You've taken it as your job to make her feel better, so how is she to know she deserves to feel better about herself when she's with you? You'll just automatically tell her she does no matter what. However, she does like hanging out with you because you pay attention to her, it's predictable and she's in control of how things go.

You imagine that you're helping her eventually get what she needs (which, surprise, surprise, happens to correspond exactly with what you need). Only you're not realizing she is getting what she needs from you, right this minute, and it's exactly the thing that's killing you. It won't turn into anything more.

There's a pattern particularly common among serial monogamists where the good-guy/bad-guy role you experienced in your last relationship gets reversed in your next relationship. It's the source of a lot of needless drama. That's what is happening to you here. She was trying to "rescue" a married guy from his no doubt shrewlike and frigid wife :)rolleyes:), bound up her self esteem in the idea that she was "better" than this horrible woman, and when she realized she wasn't going to win, it crushed her, because how horrible must she be if she isn't "better" than the woman she's heard so many awful things about? Now you're the rescuer. You're doing almost exactly the same thing, she's stringing you along in much the same way she herself was strung along, and the end for you is going to be the same as it was for her.



Yes, you are in denial. You are listening only to things that say what you want to hear and rationalizing away the rest. It's normal to do that in your position, but it's still completely effed up, and the sooner you realize that the better off you're going to be. "Maybe I'm meant to be a legend?" Dude, I can tell you right now, you're not. This is not the situation you think it is.

Damn you do make a lot of sense. But I don't get the part about being wrong by doing good things to win her heart. Isn't this what everyone does? I think every guy who ever made a girl fall in love with him, did some nice things just to attract said girl, and not just because they were really nice guys. I don't think anyone's ever been completely selfless when pursuing a relationship. The only difference is that it worked for those guys and it's not working for me. Anyway its effed up, I know, what do I do now? :(
 
Anyway its effed up, I know, what do I do now? :(

It is effed up, and a lot of us have been there, my friend. Force yourself to move on. Get completely away from the situation. You won't be able to move on if you continue to be her friend. It sucks. You're not going to like it. Neither will she. But for your own sake, I think it must be done.
 
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