That's why Jordan is so revered. Dominance in the biggest stages. Undefeated when it matters the most. Also why Montana is so revered.
But basketball again IMO is much more individual than football and baseball.
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Lebron James
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That's why Jordan is so revered. Dominance in the biggest stages. Undefeated when it matters the most. Also why Montana is so revered.
But basketball again IMO is much more individual than football and baseball.
Jordan was more fortunate that LeBron in having the main players on his teams being in their prime at the same time and they didn't have any serious injuries. Yes Jordan was dominant in the Finals, but his team did their part too, unlike the Heat this year.
Lebron James
Jordan also didn't bail on the team that drafted him. Players in their primes at the same time happens when u stick with a team like San Antonio . You figure they won 6 titles with subpar centers and average point guard play
Jordan also didn't bail on the team that drafted him. Players in their primes at the same time happens when u stick with a team like San Antonio . You figure they won 6 titles with subpar centers and average point guard play
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Now you're just looking for reasons to say Jordan is better.
The way LeBron announced that he was going to Miami was a douche move, but to hold him leaving the Cavaliers as a way to say Jordan is better? Even more ridiculous than having championship count as a deciding factor.
What good players did LeBron have with him in Cleveland? Chris Bosh is better than any player LeBron played with in Cleveland. Cleveland failed to draft another top player after they got LeBron and before he took them to the playoffs.
Watch some Jordan highlights, Lebron will NEVER have those type of highlights. Lebron might be physically stronger, but not a better athlete.
Championship count isn't the deciding factor but it is a big factor when you're the main star on a basketball team. MJ also was 6 time finals MVP, highest ppg average in finals, etc. do I think MJ is better, yes. Lebron is great yes but you can't lose more nba finals than win and think you're on the mt rushmore with others. And lebron really hasn't shown a lot of clutch big time moments in his 11 years
LeBron took a Cleveland team that had no place being in the Finals, something Jordan could never have done. And to say that he hasnt been clutch is just dumb. LeBron's stats are just as good, some better, than Jordan's in each of their first 10 seasons. I bet you think Kobe is more clutch than LeBron, huh?
Lebron James
Lebron hasn't been as clutch as Jordan. MJ hitting the game winner at unc is more than anything lebron has done. Lebron is magic Johnson more than Jordan. Lebron a biggest clutch moment was a gw against Orlando in the playoffs. A series they lost.
MJ now would've killed the league. No hand checking anymore in today's nba. Phil Jackson said bed average 40+ easily in today's league.
I'm not even mentioning Kobe. He got 5 but 3 of those were with shaq and they even lost badly in the finals against Detroit. Then he loses another finals to boston, they lost that last game by like 30.
Lebron hasn't been as clutch as Jordan. MJ hitting the game winner at unc is more than anything lebron has done. Lebron is magic Johnson more than Jordan. Lebron a biggest clutch moment was a gw against Orlando in the playoffs. A series they lost.
MJ now would've killed the league. No hand checking anymore in today's nba. Phil Jackson said bed average 40+ easily in today's league.
I'm not even mentioning Kobe. He got 5 but 3 of those were with shaq and they even lost badly in the finals against Detroit. Then he loses another finals to boston, they lost that last game by like 30.
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LeBron is plenty clutch. No player has a higher PPG in elimination games than LBJ. He was a monster for us in Games 6 & 7 against the Spurs last Finals, he made that layup at the buzzer that saved us in Game 1 against the Pacers last year in the playoffs. He had that monster game against the Celtics in Game 6, when we were down 3-2. Early on, he wasnt as successful at those late game situations because he used his athleticism more than anything, since he had no mid-range jumper. But since his arrival in Miami, he has been one of the most clutch players in the league. There are only a handful of players in the history of this league that have put up numbers like he has, some not seen in this league for over 50 years.
And I mention Kobe because he is one of the least clutch players. Sure, he will hit those game winning shots, but some of his career numbers are the worst in league history.
You really think lebron was clutch in game 6 last year? Did u watch the last 3 minutes of that game? Turnovers. The spurs lost that game on their own. And ray Allen saved that game.
I don't deny lebron is great, he is. But for being mentioned with the goat IMO he should have more clutch moments, not losing 3 finals, the last one losing 3 straight games by more than 15.
You are going to blame this years Finals on him? He did all that he could, but the Heat were just dominated by the better team. And yes, he did have issues in the final minutes of Game 6, but he was a monster in that game, as well as his triple double in Game 7. And the Cavs had no business playing against the Spurs in his first trip to the Finals, and bringing that up is just weak. To even compare LeBron now to LeBron in his first Finals appearance is again weak, because his game is much more evolved now. But if you want to go that route, LeBron took that team to the Finals, Jordan did not take a team to the Finals until Pippen and Co. came along.
I dont care how many more Finals LeBron loses, if he adds 2-3 more titles, he is going to be on the same level as Jordan. If LeBron stays healthy, most of his stats will be better than Jordan's.
I agree the lebron carried the cavs. The east was weak and they got swept by the spurs so yes they had no business against the spurs. Do people even remember how bad he was against Dallas in the finals? C'mon.
Who is pippen and company? again pippin wasn't some great star in the beginning. Good player, definitely. So winning 3 titles with average to subpar pg and bill Cartwright as your center/Stacey king.
Lebron and Kobe both had at least a 3 year head start on MJ. And MJ missed most of a season with injury.
If he won 3 more titles it'd only be 5 out of 8 for him. He'd be there with magic IMO. Not MJ. And yes in the nba finals, I consider losing twice and getting beat down badly 3 straight games. I'm sure most agree he isn't up there. Again mj never even saw a game 7 in the finals. He's cold blooded. I'm going by watching MJ and lebron over the years.
And Im going by watching both as well. MJ never did anything until he had support, and that wasnt until Pippen became a star in his own right. Nobody could have done what LBJ did with the Cavs the year they went to the Finals.
And no, if LeBron finishes his career with 5 titles, he wont be in Magic's company, he will be right there with Michael. If he stays healthy, he should come close to passing Malone, let alone Michael, on the scoring list, should be in the top 10-15 in assists, top 40 in rebounds all time, and those numbers put him right there with Michael. And I dont care how cold blooded Michael was, nobody would take that into consideration. Yeah, he was cold blooded, but LeBron is as well, in his own right. He put up numbers in games that havent been seen ever, or since the 50s/60s, when the Big O was dominating.
I'll give him the Cavs final, but this stat still stands:
2-2 in the NBA finals. Jordan took home the hardware.
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If talking about support is fair game, then so should be opponents. The Eastern conference is the worst it has ever been. San Antonio had to play a ridiculously difficult collection of series to get to the final and then they steamrolled Lebron and company.
I will say this: Dwyane Wade is terrible and needs to be out of Miami if LBJ wants to win there again. Lebron's window is actually starting to close. I think he has much better odds winning elsewhere. Ironically, I think his best chance to win is probably with Chicago.
Lebron is actually 2-3 in finals. Lost to spurs, lost to Dallas, and now the spurs. Yeah again IMO u can't be up there with MJ with that.
What if Lebron goes to four more finals and wins them all? Don't you think that would put him in the conversation?
Did u watch MJ, his whole career? He was incredible, even before the 3 peat.
Really? Karl Malone? He shouldn't even be in this conversation.
And lebron with 5 still won't be with MJ. Lebron is a great player but again he's come up small too much in the biggest moments. Dallas in the finals he was small when it mattered. They got steamrolled by the spurs. If not for some missed free throws they could've been swept.
I think you should read about just how cold blooded MJ was, how competitive he was. Lebron a a guy that u could be friends with. MJ is the guy you think is an ******* but when it came time to show up he wanted to win more than anyone else. He was beating up teammates in practice and threatening them if they didn't perform. It's what makes him great. MJ never got swept in a finals, never lost a finals. Never even saw a game 7 in the finals.
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Well have to see. Does he just go to another team like he did Miami to chase titles? Will he be the main star on those teams? There's variables IMO.
Agreed. There are lots of great players in many sports who have never won a championship.
I left out the Cavs team. He had no supporting cast.
No one is arguing Lebron isn't a great player. But the GREATEST players have won championships. To be the GREATEST, you have to win.
Probably, but I don't think that happens. His window is closing.
Interesting. Seems like you are giving him a pass which contradicts your quote below.
So, Dan Marino isn't one of the greatest QBs because he didn't win the SuperBowl. Same for Adrian Peterson as well, I guess.
I'm doing LBJ a favor. Even if I spot him the one finals he carried a team to, he couldn't get it done.
So, Dan Marino isn't one of the greatest QBs because he didn't win the SuperBowl. Same for Adrian Peterson as well, I guess.
You destroy your argument by comparison to other sports. NBA is less a of a team sport where one player can take the game over.
Michael Jordan is the single play most recognized as "the greatest ever". My argument isn't Lebron isn't "one of the greatest", it's that Lebron isn't "the greatest". Jordan won when it mattered. Period.
Michael Jordan said:
I think trying to compare players from different eras is silly. However, if you insist on doing so, perhaps you should wait until Lebron's career is over. Both James and Jordan will go down as one of the greatest to play the game.
Lebron James
That's what I've been saying too. Do people even realize how good MJ was? Along with the 10 scoring titles, he was a 9 time all nba first team defensive pick. Won defensive player of the year as a sg. Led the league in steals 3 years. Keep bringing up the cavs (which they got swept), I'll bring up how small he was against Dallas, with a much healthier wade. Lol lebron scoring 8 points in a nba finals game (game 4). Yeah can't see MJ doing that. The heat were actually up 2-1 in that series. Dallas won 3 straight.
Just found this Lebron quote today:
[We will] take 50 percent in four years in championships any day. Obviously, you want to win all of them, but thats just the nature of the game. You win some, you lose some. Youve just got to come back the next year and be better as an individual, as a team, and go from there.
Yeah you think MJ would say something like that? Lol
That's what I've been saying too. Do people even realize how good MJ was? Along with the 10 scoring titles, he was a 9 time all nba first team defensive pick. Won defensive player of the year as a sg. Led the league in steals 3 years. Keep bringing up the cavs (which they got swept), I'll bring up how small he was against Dallas, with a much healthier wade. Lol lebron scoring 8 points in a nba finals game (game 4). Yeah can't see MJ doing that. The heat were actually up 2-1 in that series. Dallas won 3 straight.
Just found this Lebron quote today:
[We will] take 50 percent in four years in championships any day. Obviously, you want to win all of them, but thats just the nature of the game. You win some, you lose some. Youve just got to come back the next year and be better as an individual, as a team, and go from there.
Yeah you think MJ would say something like that? Lol
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Ive seen MJ since his rookie year, and you are talking to a HUGE Jordan fan BTW.
What are you talking about? I mentioned reaching Malone in scoring, who is 3rd all time, ahead of Michael.
Again, legacy is not measured by titles alone. That is a weak argument. If LeBron continues his production for the rest of the decade, he will be top ahead of Jordan in scoring, top 10 or so all time in assists, and top 40 in rebounds. You add 2-3 more rings to that resume, and he undoubtedly deserves to be in the same sentence as Jordan. Heck, going by the way you are trying to spin it, Pippen is right there with Jordan as best ever, since he also has six. But wait, Russell has 11 titles, so is he almost 2x the player Jordan was?
I dont care how Jordan was in practice, or if he was cold blooded or not, that does not play a role at all. So LeBron is friendlier than Jordan, AND? I go by what his stats look like now, and what they will look like in the end. And judging by where they are statistically through their first 10 seasons, LeBron is well on his way to meeting Michael on the summit.