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Lebronnnn

Lebron did make his team better. No one player can put the team on his back to win a championship. He brought them close.... As already mentioned, when Lebron left Cleveland, they sucked big time.

I'm not going to compare him to great players to the past since I don't really follow basketball. But from what I have seen from Lebron, he is a very talented basketball player. He made some very heads up plays during the finals.

As to the people complaining that the refs cost the Thunder the game, stop making excuses. You're as bad as St. Louis Cardinals fans complaining about Santana's no-hitter saying there should be an asterisk next to it considering the umpire blew a fair/foul call. That's sports. With the exception of Game 5, the Thunder could have easily won game 2-4. They were very tight games.
 
Things I learned from ESPN today: NBA teams must only have three players. And don't forget your stupid fake glasses when you give an interview.
 
quagmire said:
As to the people complaining that the refs cost the Thunder the game, stop making excuses. You're as bad as St. Louis Cardinals fans complaining about Santana's no-hitter saying there should be an asterisk next to it considering the umpire blew a fair/foul call. That's sports. With the exception of Game 5, the Thunder could have easily won game 2-4. They were very tight games.
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I'm not talking about one game against the Thunder... I didn't even watch it. The NBA is as fixed as it comes. LeBron James NEVER travels and he NEVER fouls anyone. He can do no wrong.
 
zioxide said:
I'm not talking about one game against the Thunder... I didn't even watch it. The NBA is as fixed as it comes. LeBron James NEVER travels and he NEVER fouls anyone. He can do no wrong.
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There were plenty of blown calls all over the place last night (a flagrant T, fouls called on the Heat where there was no contact, no fouls called on the Heat when there was, etc) but in the end, the Thunder were sluggish and just seemed to give up by the 2nd half. They had nothing left in them. I hadn't seen a team walk away with a game like that in the Finals in years. Weird thing was, it was so gradual in the first half. The Heat just chipped away little by little and increased their lead throughout. By the Q3, it was over.
 
zioxide said:
I'm not talking about one game against the Thunder... I didn't even watch it. The NBA is as fixed as it comes. LeBron James NEVER travels and he NEVER fouls anyone. He can do no wrong.
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There were plenty of fouls against James during the finals.
 
I don't see why people can't just enjoy the way Lebron plays without comparing him to Jordan. I don't think Lebron is at that level, but by the time he is done he could be. I also don't see why people knock the man for having other players on his team that are really good. Kobe had Shaq for three titles, Pau Gasol for two more. Say what you want about Pippen, but he was the best defender on the Bulls by far. Jordan didn't lock down the other teams best player, Pippen did. No one wins a title without having really good players on the team. It gets really tricky trying to compare players from different times due to playing styles. A good read on different players and where they rank is "The Book of Basketball" by Bill Simmons.
 
AustinIllini said:
Michael Jordan won six championships and six finals MVPs in six visits. Lebron is 1 for 3. LBJ is in the conversation with the bottom nine, but Lebron isn't in the same league as Jordan. If you think otherwise, you're lying to yourself-in an iOS board on an Apple fandom website.
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Take away the titles, LeBron is on his way to entering the same sentence as Jordan.

-In Jordan's first 10 seasons, he won three times. LeBron has once in his nine seasons, and could be twice if they win this year.

-Jordan leads the debate in points per game, but LeBron has been the better distributor and rebounder.

-EFG, which is a statistic regarding proficiency on offense, LeBron has trumped Jordan for most of their first 10 years.

-PER, which is player efficiency rating, and arguably one of the best stats to judge history, Jordan leads the history of the league at 27.91, while LeBron is second at 27.65. This year though LeBron posted the highest efficiency in the history of the game, at over 32, which a ridiculous number.

-Wilt lead his team in points, rebounds, and assists 114 games in his career, LeBron has done in 18 less times in four less seasons, which is 56 more times than Jordan did in his first 10 years.

-LeBron was the youngest ever to 20,000 points.

-LeBron has put posted numbers in games, and in stretches, that has either never been done before, or had not been done in over 60 years in the NBA, and most of them not including Jordan.

-LeBron has been been all-nba defensive team five times so far, MJ six in his first 10 years.


It is unfair to compare the career of Jordan to LeBron currently, because he is nowhere near done. But if you compare the first 10 years of each of them, he absolutely deserves to be in the conversation. The only thing that people try to do with LeBron and MJ is talk about rings, but if LeBron were to win this season, then he would have one less than MJ in each of their first 10 seasons. Aside from the rings, you cannot make an argument against LeBron. I love MJ, and loved watching him during those dynamic years, but LeBron is one of the greatest athletes any of the professional sports has ever seen. If LeBron stays on this course, and adds not six rings like MJ had, but 4-5, he is going to surpass Jordan as the greatest NBA player ever.

AustinIllini said:
What's funny is, when all his set and done, Lebron will probably get his number retired by the Heat. They'll put his number in the rafters up by Dwyane Wade, making him the third number retired by the Heat. The first of which was Michael Jordan.
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You do realize that the Heat already have two numbers retired in the rafters. Well, obviously you dont, because you wouldnt have made such a ridiculous comment.
 
jbennardo said:
Things I learned from ESPN today: NBA teams must only have three players. And don't forget your stupid fake glasses when you give an interview.
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LOL, noooo kidding! I've been saying this for a couple years now. It's going to be embarassing looking back at video from this era 15-20 years from now and seeing all these idiots dressed like clowns, wearing their big, fake glasses. So dumb.
 
I won't get into the numbers and who is better than who and all of that because it can be discussed endlessly and we'll never really have a right or wrong answer.

I'm not a Lebron fan, but I definitely respect his game.

Up until last year's Finals, I had complete disdain for him. He had always come across as the most egotistical, narcissistic athlete I had ever seen. From "The Decision" to the first Finals where the "Big 3" played Dallas and Lebron and D-Wade were mocking Dirk before one of the games because he was sick...and Dirk proceeded to drop 40+ on them and Dallas won the Finals...all of the playoff losses and the way he seemingly quit against Boston in the Eastern Conference Finals in his last year in Cleveland (IMO so he could justify a need to leave). All of those things added up made me completely hate and disrespect him as a player and as a professional individual.

But last year I thought he turned the corner a bit. He shut his mouth, didn't pound his chest as much, and he beat (I thought) a better OKC team in the Finals. He did it with moments where he was both totally dominant and moments where he was an incredible delegator and teammate. He did it with class and respect. IMO, it was probably just a lot of growing up that needed to happen up to that point.

As I said, I'm not a Lebron fan, but I respect him, and I think he is without a doubt the best overall player in the league right now (though KD is my favorite player).
 
Defense in Jordan's day was better then today's defense. I honestly think if Jordan in his prime played today he could of had a couple hundred point games.
 
The Spurs had a record setting night. Danny Green and Gary Neal had career nights. I don't count on either of those things happening again. Having said that, I'll still stick with my original pick, Spurs in 6. :)
 
Though I don't have a team I am religious about, I usually root for the westernmost team in most NBA finals with an exception or two.

But this time I am all for the Miami Heat and it's really nailbiting seeing if the perpetually great team will take it or what can become the next perpetually great team. LeBron is individually the bomb but the better team may be the Spurs now and most years. I like how the Spurs spread it out but LeBron can play great defense, too and hit key 3 pointers almost like Mike. More than football or baseball I think an exceptional star can almost make or break a team. The closest thing to 'missing piece' importance in football may be a Manning leaving Indy or a Bonds at the Giants, but even then LeBron is a total monster and almost like two players.

This game tonight will come down to the wire and be a single digit victory.
 
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OK, they took your lucky headband and it worked! Unable as a team to string two together and tonight it happens and it means the season. Congrats to the Heat and Lebron!
 
zioxide said:
Sorry, but your argument is completely flawed because you can't possibly make this comparison across eras. There have been so many advances in athletic training, medical technology, etc to do this. If guys like Bird, Erving, Russell were in their primes now and had all of this technology and knowledge to use in their training, they would wipe the floor with Lebron.



Is this your first year watching basketball?



It's a TEAM sport. We're not talking about 1 on 1 street ball. In TEAM sports, CHAMPIONSHIPS are THE ONLY THING that matter.




come back when lebron has 7 rings and then we might be able to have this conversation. individual stats mean nothing if you aren't winning championships.



Team championships are the ONLY thing in this equation.



;)
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michael%20jordan.jpg



lebron needs to win at least 2-3 more championships and play at an extremely high level for the next 10 years to even be considered in the same company with Russell, Jordan, Magic, Bird, Erving, Chamberlain, etc.

and even if he does, he'll still be a smug, egotistical douchebag.
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I think that can be said about any player who performs and you have those that do not like them.

Couldn't stand "Magic"............
 
rhett7660 said:
I think that can be said about any player who performs and you have those that do not like them.

Couldn't stand "Magic"............
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Yeah, but nobody else's ego was so damn big that they needed an hour long TV special to announce that they were "taking their talents to south beach".


What's the point of even having a league if you just have a superteam that's gonna win every year anyways? Sounds a lot like the Harlem Globetrotters.
 
zioxide said:
Yeah, but nobody else's ego was so damn big that they needed an hour long TV special to announce that they were "taking their talents to south beach".
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No one cares if he's egotistical. In fact, if I'm completely honest (lifelong Bulls fan), Lebron's style of play is anything but egotistical. He's so good and a facilitator, something Kobe absolutely is not and something Jordan did sparingly.
 
In all honesty if I was told how great I was starting in junior high I probably would have a big ego and so would most of us. I totally agree the decision was in poor taste, but I think since then LeBron has been humbled and has swallowed a lot of pride.

I try to separate what players do on the court versus off the court. While Jordan was a great player I doubt he was much fun to hang out with. Magic was considered a coach killer in the early eighties. If anything I would consider Wade to have a worse attitude than LeBron. Bottom line is whether he is liked or not LeBron is one of the greatest of all times. Every year he adds something new to his game, he is an unselfish player and he works very hard. Those are attributes not all stars have no matter what we think of them.
 
zioxide said:
Yeah, but nobody else's ego was so damn big that they needed an hour long TV special to announce that they were "taking their talents to south beach".


What's the point of even having a league if you just have a superteam that's gonna win every year anyways? Sounds a lot like the Harlem Globetrotters.
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I didn't care for Lebron back when he was doing his baby powder thing in Cleveland or during the Decision but he's undeniably great now. Plays the 1-5, defends the 1-5, makes his teammates better, and can take over the game in critical moments.

And the Heat are a flawed team. Year after year they're one of the worst teams in the post and teams with elite post presence like the Pacers and Bulls exploit that. But the Heat are a smart team - smart enough to counter their weaknesses with the proper adjustments and gameplan. Look at Spoelstra's transition to small ball the second half of the series
 
the small ball allows you to adjust easily. if you have players who are rooted to their positions, it is harder to adjust.
 
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