Legal Advice

[Apple_Robert]

He hadn't told me too much, just that his SSN, and two bank accounts were hacked, both with different passwords. He's a pretty tech savvy guy so I find this hard to believe in itself. As for the second part, just digital conversations. Appreciate the help thus far.

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The only reason I gave him the $100 was so he wrote me the check, but that just turned into this mess. Third was a nice gesture since it's a smaller amount.

While everything is fresh in your mind, go ahead and put in on paper in as succinct terms as you can. The more precise and to the point you are, the better, as far as the court is concerned.


In regards to filing with the court, make sure you follow every single step. Leave nothing undone. The last thing you want to have happen, is the case getting dismissed, because you filed in the wrong county, got his name and or address wrong when submitting the paperwork etc.

 

[Squilly]

If you have the timestamped message, and the copy of the check, then you have enough to prove he wrote it in bad faith, which, in your case, is a second degree misdemeanor.

You have options besides small claims court if you want to pursue them.

He verbally said it was a mistake that he brought along the wrong checkbook though. Granted, this was two days after he said he'd write me the check and accidentally brought the wrong checkbook, so contradicted himself. Don't know how much I believe it but at that point it's his word vs mine.

 

[turtle777]

NEVER ever loan money to friends or family.

Give the money as a gift, and don't expect any of it to be returned.

That's the ONLY sane way to deal with friends / family on money issues.

-t

 

[Renzatic]

He verbally said it was a mistake that he brought along the wrong checkbook though. Granted, this was two days after he said he'd write me the check and accidentally brought the wrong checkbook, so contradicted himself. Don't know how much I believe it but at that point it's his word vs mine.

It doesn't matter. He wrote the check, he's responsible for it. Considering his past history, I'd consider getting a lawyer.

 

[Squilly]

It doesn't matter. He wrote the check, he's responsible for it. Considering his past history, I'd consider getting a lawyer.

What would that do for me? Isn't that just a criminal offense or could I take that civilly as well? I don't want to ruin his life over this, I just want to be paid back (and then some if possible). I just read small claims court doesn't allow lawyers on that site linked in this thread. The cost of a lawyer would also be the same or more than the money I'm looking to get recovered and from what I've read, each party is responsible for those costs without the expectation of getting it reimbursed by the losing party.

 

[citizenzen]

Didn't learn the first time huh? NEVER, EVER loan money to family or friends that you expect to get back. Getting paid back is a bonus.

Probably the best thing Squilly has learned in college.

 

[TPadden]

Doesn't sound like a friend to me. A true friend would pay you back immediately. Sounds like he is using you.

... I thought everything was good with my friend and he asks me for $20 for a party he's attending, I oblige, but request $5 interest and trust that it'd get paid back in two days, ....

Give me a break..... what kind of a person would lend $20 to anyone for 2 days at $5 interest other than Squilly?

Just get one of your other "friends" to break a leg .....

 

[Renzatic]

What would that do for me? Isn't that just a criminal offense or could I take that civilly as well? I don't want to ruin his life over this, I just want to be paid back (and then some if possible). I just read small claims court doesn't allow lawyers on that site linked in this thread. The cost of a lawyer would also be the same or more than the money I'm looking to get recovered and from what I've read, each party is responsible for those costs without the expectation of getting it reimbursed by the losing party.

It's ultimately a criminal offense, but it can be handled civilly at first. I'm not sure how these things are handled in Pennsylvania, but usually that amount will go before a magistrate long before it goes to the state. The fact you were willing to pres charges on your quote unquote friend should be more than enough to make him settle out to you civilly, and give you your money.

 

[Squilly]

Give me a break..... what kind of a person would lend $20 to anyone for 2 days at $5 interest other than Squilly?

Just get one of your other "friends" to break a leg .....

I hadn't charged him interest on anything else, and I'm known for my high interest rates when it comes to lending money, just ask my brother.

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It's ultimately a criminal offense, but it can be handled civilly at first. I'm not sure how these things are handled in Pennsylvania, but usually that amount will go before a magistrate long before it goes to the state. The fact you were willing to pres charges on your quote unquote friend should be more than enough to make him settle out to you civilly, and give you your money.

Without getting a lawyer involved? He already has one for his DJ business/events so it's not a problem on his end. It wouldn't make financial sense for me though.

 

[Renzatic]

Without getting a lawyer involved? He already has one for his DJ business/events so it's not a problem on his end. It wouldn't make financial sense for me though.

You'd need to at least consult with one, but that doesn't cost much at all. In your situation, I doubt you'd need to hire one fully.

edit: actually, you know what'd work best? I did this fairly recently myself. Send him a letter, notarized, and require a signature upon receipt. Give him 10 days to respond. If he doesn't, send him a second, same situation. If he ignores both, or denies the signature, then in makes him look worse, and adds more ammo to your cause.

 

[mobilehaathi]

I'm known for my high interest rates when it comes to lending money, just ask my brother.

That brother of mine owes me $1350 (technically it's over $3,000) as well, which is a three year old debt and I have yet to be paid back a cent.

Squilly, bud, I think you'll feel better after you work your way through a bag of suckers...

 

[Squilly]

You'd need to at least consult with one, but that doesn't cost much at all. In your situation, I doubt you'd need to hire one fully.

edit: actually, you know what'd work best? I did this fairly recently myself. Send him a letter, notarized, and require a signature upon receipt. Give him 10 days to respond. If he doesn't, send him a second, same situation. If he ignores both, or denies the signature, then in makes him look worse, and adds more ammo to your cause.

Mail it to his address (which he's almost never at) or hand it to him? Letter stating he needs to pay by *this date* or what?

 

[Gutwrench]

Using my standard disqualifier of not knowing your state's law...knowingly writing a check on a closed account is usually fraud. The issue is it's a specific intent crime, not general. You (the DA actually) would have to prove he wrote it while knowing it was closed. Since it's not the crime of the century you probably won't see any criminal charge. (And hiring your own attorney for a criminal case is like uselessly silly.)

It's a clear civil case and you'd likely win an award (unless you were charging interest so exorbitant that it's illegal in itself). But you still face the hassle of collecting. Yes, you'd have a judgement and the court's help but may still take time.

I'd say if you feel strongly and the claim is within the limit, go to small claims court. A personal attorney's fees would wipe out and possibly exceed your claim and take you out of small claims court.

Suggestion: you're as bad at lending as the guy is at paying his bills. You both should stop.

 

[Squilly]

Using my standard disqualifier of not knowing your state's law...knowingly writing a check on a closed account is usually fraud. The issue is it's a specific intent crime, not general. You (the DA actually) would have to prove he wrote it while knowing it was closed. Since it's not the crime of the century you probably won't see any criminal charge. (And hiring your own attorney for a criminal case is like uselessly silly.)

It's a clear civil case and you'd likely win an award (unless you were charging interest so exorbitant that it's illegal in itself). But you still face the hassle of collecting. Yes, you'd have a judgement and the court's help but may still take time.

I'd say if you feel strongly and the claim is within the limit, go to small claims court. A personal attorney's fees would wipe out and possibly exceed your claim and take you out of small claims court.

Suggestion: you're as bad at lending as the guy is at paying his bills. You both should stop.

I lend to give a helping hand when asked, typically I oblige but when people break contracts like this, I refuse anything else. The guy is blackmailing at this point (needing another $100 to write the check). He said he didn't know the check was from a closed account, not much more to go off of. I don't know if he did either.

 

[Gutwrench]

You're a decent guy and it's frustrating to read you're being take advantage of. Good luck.

 

[juanm]

You don't lend money to get an interest on it, you do it to help someone. Even more on a sum like $20. If you say that in court you'll just lose all credibility.Just say he bought your laptop, after a long time, he "paid" with a check from a closed account.

Also, he's not your friend, sorry about that.

Like Sceptical Scribe said, you'll never cease to be yourself, it's hard to keep serious, sometimes.

 

[Squilly]

You don't lend money to get an interest on it, you do it to help someone. Even more on a sum like $20. If you say that in court you'll just lose all credibility.Just say he bought your laptop, after a long time, he "paid" with a check from a closed account.

Also, he's not your friend, sorry about that.

Like Sceptical Scribe said, you'll never cease to be yourself, it's hard to keep serious, sometimes.

I didn't charge interest on either of the first two amounts, only the third. I sold him the laptop to help him, without being paid up front.

 

[yg17]

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Unfortunately the saying ends there. But I propose an addition: Fool me thrice, seriously, what the hell was I thinking?

 

[Renzatic]

Mail it to his address (which he's almost never at) or hand it to him? Letter stating he needs to pay by *this date* or what?

You'll want a 3rd party to do it so his receipt of the letter can be verified independently. Does he have a place he works at regularly? You could send it there instead of his home. The important thing is that someone entirely neutral to the situation, preferably from the USPS, is there to hand it to him.

If he signs it, and doesn't comply, it looks like he's acting in bad faith. Same if he refuses to sign for it after seeing who it's from.

As for what needs to be in the letter itself, the demand of X amount paid in Y days, or you'll be suing him in small claims court is enough. Don't go crazy with it, and don't be overly verbose with your legal threats. Keep it simple and concise.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Squilly: Are you a fantasist? Or, are you the sort of engaging and cheerful fool that people invariably try to take advantage of?

The endless procession of frankly - fabulous and utterly fantastic fables - that mark your passage through these fora never ceases to astound me.

Is it actually possible to get into as many extraordinarily bizarre financial imbroglios as your tales on these threads would appear to suggest? I truly doubt that the State finances of the sort of small State (or, for that matter, a large, morally ambiguous, and fiscally rather suspicious bank,) - the sort which seeks to make financially complicated but morally deeply dubious transactions in offshore accounts balance with an unsettling and disturbing equilibrium - indeed, precisely the sort that would barely pass any kind of close scrutiny - could match the sort of stuff you regularly offer on these fora as a straight faced, deadpan, narrative.

I have no legal advice to offer, unfortunately; such expertise as I have lies elsewhere. However, I do - strongly - recommend that you subject your putative business associates, (whether brothers, other kin, or erstwhile friends) to closer moral and financial scrutiny before embarking on any further financial adventures (or loans) with any of them.

 

[Mr. McMac]

I lent money to a so called friend years ago. $1800 to be exact. Never got paid back. A lesson learned from that one experience. I never lend money to anyone, for any reason period!! You're a fool for trusting anyone after your first bad experience. I don't in the least bit feel sorry for you.

 

[Sdashiki]

He burned you not twice but more than three times...a man with a lawyer on retainer you say (hows he pay that guy?) that gets paid nightly for DJ-ing...and you let him walk all over you.

Sorry dude. After the first screw up, yours not his, everything else was your fault and he KNEW what he was doing every time he asked for money.

Just because you have the money to help people and you like the good feeling it gives you to do so, DONT DO IT. There are other ways to help people that dont involve a need for being paid back...

 

[Squilly]

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Unfortunately the saying ends there. But I propose an addition: Fool me thrice, seriously, what the hell was I thinking?

He blackmailed me into giving him the $100 just to write the (fake) check. Third was a mistake though, admittedly.

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Squilly: Are you a fantasist? Or, are you the sort of engaging and cheerful fool that people invariably try to take advantage of?

The endless procession of frankly - fabulous and utterly fantastic fables - that mark your passage through these fora never ceases to astound me.

Is it actually possible to get into as many extraordinarily bizarre financial imbroglios as your tales on these threads would appear to suggest? I truly doubt that the State finances of the sort of small State (or, for that matter, a large, morally ambiguous, and fiscally rather suspicious bank,) - the sort which seeks to make financially complicated but morally deeply dubious transactions in offshore accounts balance with an unsettling and disturbing equilibrium - indeed, precisely the sort that would barely pass any kind of close scrutiny - could match the sort of stuff you regularly offer on these fora as a straight faced, deadpan, narrative.

I have no legal advice to offer, unfortunately; such expertise as I have lies elsewhere. However, I do - strongly - recommend that you subject your putative business associates, (whether brothers, other kin, or erstwhile friends) to closer moral and financial scrutiny before embarking on any further financial adventures (or loans) with any of them.

I don't have much to say to this, mainly as it sounds really complicated, ie. second/third paragraph.

 

[mobilehaathi]

He blackmailed me into giving him the $100 just to write the (fake) check. Third was a mistake though, admittedly.

How about that $200 you scammed from some person on another forum?

 

[Squilly]

I lent money to a so called friend years ago. $1800 to be exact. Never got paid back. A lesson learned from that one experience. I never lend money to anyone, for any reason period!! You're a fool for trusting anyone after your first bad experience. I don't in the least bit feel sorry for you.

Well, did you sue?

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He burned you not twice but more than three times...a man with a lawyer on retainer you say (hows he pay that guy?) that gets paid nightly for DJ-ing...and you let him walk all over you.

Sorry dude. After the first screw up, yours not his, everything else was your fault and he KNEW what he was doing every time he asked for money.

Just because you have the money to help people and you like the good feeling it gives you to do so, DONT DO IT. There are other ways to help people that dont involve a need for being paid back...

He doesn't DJ nightly, if he did he wouldn't be working 3 or 4 other jobs. Don't know how he pays him.

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You'll want a 3rd party to do it so his receipt of the letter can be verified independently. Does he have a place he works at regularly? You could send it there instead of his home. The important thing is that someone entirely neutral to the situation, preferably from the USPS, is there to hand it to him.

If he signs it, and doesn't comply, it looks like he's acting in bad faith. Same if he refuses to sign for it after seeing who it's from.

As for what needs to be in the letter itself, the demand of X amount paid in Y days, or you'll be suing him in small claims court is enough. Don't go crazy with it, and don't be overly verbose with your legal threats. Keep it simple and concise.

He works at multiple places, but he's at his house at times. His parents don't know about this and they open his mail sometimes, which would probably be better for me but he'd hate me for it. He doesn't want them to know about it.