Lenovo, LG and HP Introduce MacBook Lookalikes at CES 2016

[frisken]

As for the 12" models:
HP - 2x USB-C ports.
Lenovo - 2x USB3.1 ports, and 1x USB-C port.

If this doesn't show that having only one USB-C port is purely stubborness, and has nothing to do with thinness or battery life, I don't know what will.

Let's wait until we can compare the battery life and performance before you say that ... There might be a reason after all, you know.

 

[Glassed Silver]

Ah, but what's the replacement? "copycat"ting a proprietary interface completely controlled by Apple won't fly. So do the copycats make other proprietary interfaces so we can have huge fragmentation away from one standard? Can't wait for needing multiple adapters to unhook headphones from an iDevice to then plug into some piece of home audio equipment not made by Apple, and then maybe yet another adapter to jack into a friends mobile music device when they want to share a listening experience together. Horray!!! The Future

Tell your friends to pony up the dough and get compatible equipment or get new friends! /s

Of course, if you work for Apple in decision making levels you won't see how these idiotic things backlash in real-life.
You just equip your friends with all the stuff they need or they make enough money themselves.
Blind to the realities out there I tell ya.

There's a big difference between AirDrop being Apple-only and ACTIVELY going away from a universal standard to implement a closed-ecosystem solution that you force onto people.
"But Bluetooth is an open standard" - a) Bluetooth is NOT everywhere. 3.5 although practically is. b) BT Audio sounds like crap most of the time. I have a pair of Jabra headphones and when I first used them I thought they were broken. Then I attached the 3.5 cord and lo and behold - they sound terrific!
If BT quality is the "future", then it's time to stop believing in technological progress. LOL
Of course one could push for a better BT Audio standard.

Meanwhile, I'll enjoy replacing my fairly new headphones, just because Apple feels like pushing the accessory train a little too much again.
Give me a break.

Glassed Silver:mac

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Maybe with updated USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 I/O we will see audio across these interfaces? Apple already has lightning headphones.

So one headphone product for our iDevices and another for the rest? Or adapters?

That's the issue. We have a perfectly-fine, commoditized part that is universally installed in EVERYTHING. The part is dirt cheap, has nobody's for-profit patent hooks in it to any significant degree and "just works."

Most of what we Apple people play is compressed AAC, so we are NOT going to be able to hear any difference in quality from jettisoning the long-term standard for a new standard unless the music files themselves are upgraded along with upgraded headphone speakers... and even then- if that happens- I question whether most of us will be able to hear a difference.

But, we believe Apple wants to do this, so we're rallying the troops in support. We'll spin how much better music will sound and pooh-pooh issues such as charging & listening at the same time, having to carry around adapters, having to pay the proprietary premiums for lightning-terminated headphones AND adapters, etc. And for what?

It's not "thinner" as Apple has thinner products that have the 3.5mm audio jack.

It's not a masses problem that needs solving. Until this came up, I don't recall ever seeing anyone griping about the headphone jack itself.

Etc.

Basically, we really have no good rationale except... Apple apparently wants to go there, so we have to rationalize Apple's choice.

 

[Rogifan]

This is a typical apologist response.

Battery life is going to suffer regardless if you have more than one thing plugged in to the device.

Apple does sell an adapter that gives you what should have been built-in functionality.

If an extra port or two is sucking battery life when not in use then they have a fundamental problem.

The point is, there is clearly no (given) reason for Apple to force people to use a stupid-ass dongle when they need to charge and plug something in.

And the fact remains: they charge you for the dongle. You do the math.

Yes there is a reason. This device is meant to be ultra portable and mostly used wirelessly. If you need all those ports get a rMBP. I highly doubt Apple's design team sits down and thinks how can we design products that will force you to have to spend money on adapters. And I'm sure Jony Ive isn't the one deciding whether an adapter gets thrown in the box or you have to pay extra for it. Now maybe Phil Schiller's product marketing team tells the design team it can only have one port because Apple needs to increase accessories revenues. But if you believe what he told John Gruber at WWDC that's not the case, this product was designed completely with wireless in mind.

 

[69Mustang]

Uh, I don't really see how the Lenovo and LG are "lookalikes" of the Macbook (unless every ultrathin notebook is now a lookalike). One is a convertible that looks nothing like the Macbook, the other is a 15" laptop that looks more like a larger Macbook Air. The HP is closest, but has a 180 degree hinge and less tapered design.

Interesting that all of them managed to put more than a single port into their thin designs. Probably the keyboards are better too.

You're doing it wrong. Ignore the fact that each of those laptops have more things different than they do similar to the MB. You're supposed to hang your hat on "thin" like the MB, and through the magic of myopia, ignore the glaring differences. Tenuously grasp the narrative, squint through 1 eye, and voila; lookalikes.

That's not to say the overall design language for today's laptops, ultrabooks, and convertibles isn't influenced by Apple. That's an undeniable fact. Not a bad thing, imo. But to call these "lookalike" is a reach at best. Also, undeniable.

 

[Botts85]

Yes there is a reason. This device is meant to be ultra portable and mostly used wirelessly. If you need all those ports get a rMBP. That's Apple's thinking IMO.

Exactly.

I have a rMB, it is my work computer. It gets used for Preview with PDF docs, Mail, and Word. It has NEVER had any peripherals plugged into it. The size and battery life far outweighs my need for ports in that use case.

For my personal use, it's rMBP for sure, but I'm ok with the weight and size there as it doesn't go from meeting room, to meeting room, to meeting room on battery.

I have the OWC Thunderbolt 2 dock for my rMBP, so even there I'd be OK with one TB and maybe 1 USB. Right now at my desk at home I plug in power, one TB cable, and I get the following:

• Ethernet
• 4 USB 3.0 ports
• Audio in / out
• FW800
• HDMI Display
• Thunderbolt Port
• SD reader (would have been way better if it was a UHS-3 reader though)

It's only a matter of time before someone makes a rMB dock that makes it so that one USB-C port becomes:

• Ethernet
• Audio
• HDMI
• Thunderbolt
• 4 or 5 USB
• SD Card reader

Once that happens, it'll be the perfect work computer, plug in at your desk and get all your goodies including a second display with only one cord!

Back to the topic at hand though, that hinge on the LG sure is ugly and I'd be worried about it collecting debris. The MacBook is beautifully simple. It doesn't need a "watch hinge"
[doublepost=1452027826][/doublepost]

It's not a masses problem that needs solving. Until this came up, I don't recall ever seeing anyone griping about the headphone jack itself.

Working at the Genius Bar, it's amazing how many times people came in with headphone plugs broken off inside their headphone jacks. It was a very common occurrence, especially with crappy headphones. I never saw a lightning cable broken in the socket though.

Admittedly not a super common reason to switch, nor is audio quality unless we plan on having DACs in the headphones along with Apple upgrading everyone's Apple Music or iTunes Match files to ALAC.

I don't see the 1/8" jack being obsoleted, but supplanted by the option of lightning headphones. Who knows though, maybe Apple will start shipping a phone without 1/8" and throw in an adapter.

Lightning headphones could enable some crazy tech like HR monitors, thermometers, or pulse oximeters in earbuds for when working out!

 

[Parasprite]

Between soldering on the RAM, crippling the Mini, and getting a laptop with Windows 10 I'm finding less and less reason to stick with OS X devices.

Particularly if other companies like these can provide similar construction quality at a lower price and better internals.

 

[rdlink]

Shameless.
But great. This way Apple will be forced to get off its ass and make something even cooler to stand out from the crowd.

Yeah, so true. Because I'm sure that they're all sitting around in Cupertino sipping single malt Scotch and playing Bejeweled all day...

Tim Cook: "Oh crap! LG, Lenovo and HP just made laptops that look like the one we released last year. Let's put down our glasses and get back to work!"

 

[gaximus]

This is a typical apologist response.

Battery life is going to suffer regardless if you have more than one thing plugged in to the device.

Apple does sell an adapter that gives you what should have been built-in functionality.

If an extra port or two is sucking battery life when not in use then they have a fundamental problem.

The point is, there is clearly no (given) reason for Apple to force people to use a stupid-ass dongle when they need to charge and plug something in.

And the fact remains: they charge you for the dongle. You do the math.

I wasn't talking about devices plugged in using more power, but the ports themselves taking up space that could be filled with battery. If you look inside the air, there is no extra space. Everything not a port or a board is battery.

 

[AirdanMR]

The Macbook still has the best design.

If this somehow push Apple to add another USB-C and cut a little the price to the rMB, then this laptops are welcome.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Working at the Genius Bar, it's amazing how many times people came in with headphone plugs broken off inside their headphone jacks. It was a very common occurrence, especially with crappy headphones. I never saw a lightning cable broken in the socket though.

I understand, and this is part of how we rationalize such a decision- we pile up a bunch of relatively rare and unusual scenarios so it sounds like a good thing. Of course, we'll flip the argument when people are crying about the loss of the MagSafe when Apple decided to "solve" that problem (that no one had) too.

We could do the same if Apple would decide to just kick the battery out completely. "It doesn't happen often, but sometimes those internal batteries catch on fire", or "now everyone can get a battery case with the exact amount of battery that is right for them- Apple genius at work... again!".

Since you work in a business that deals with iPhone repair issues, of course you'll see more of such stuff. But I might offer up that headphone jack gets a LOT of use when users are in motion. Lightning jack gets used when people are mostly stationary (the overnight charge). Go through this rumored switch and then see if much greater use of the Lightning jack doesn't then bring it's own (many) repair uses.

I don't see the 1/8" jack being obsoleted, but supplanted by the option of lightning headphones. Who knows though, maybe Apple will start shipping a phone without 1/8" and throw in an adapter.

Do you really think Apple would give away an adapter? Did they give away the adapter to make the adoption of USB-C connect with pretty much everything we own now? I'm thinking that if this rumor is true, it's much more about the profitability of selling adapters and licensing than it is about some big "the future" step forward.

Lightning headphones could enable some crazy tech like HR monitors, thermometers, or pulse oximeters in earbuds for when working out!

Granted, but that's already an option since lightning can already be used that way. The rumor is basically forcing the issue for everyone... else consumers who want an Apple iDevice will need to pay up for those adapters... or buy whole new headphones to work with lightning.

Obviously, I'm not a fan of the rumor. It's another instance where- to me anyway- Apple appears to be solving a problem that no one really has... probably motivated by the profitability of licensing and adapter sales vs. this really bringing something worthwhile to us consumers. And then we pay by needing to carry around an adapter or pay the licensing toll to adapt... or both. Personally, I just wish Apple would focus their big brains on what seemed to be the "old Apple" way instead of appearing to be evolving into the Sony model of proprietary everything and making money on steep licensing fees. I want (classic Apple) innovation not (seemingly) exploitation just because they can.

 

[melendezest]

Yes there is a reason. This device is meant to be ultra portable and mostly used wirelessly. If you need all those ports get a rMBP. I highly doubt Apple's design team sits down and thinks how can we design products that will force you to have to spend money on adapters. And I'm sure Jony Ive isn't the one deciding whether an adapter gets thrown in the box or you have to pay extra for it. Now maybe Phil Schiller's product marketing team tells the design team it can only have one port because Apple needs to increase accessories revenues. But if you believe what he told John Gruber at WWDC that's not the case, this product was designed completely with wireless in mind.

Well, adding a port or 2 does not make the device less portable.

Apple's design team should've sat down and thought on how NOT to make a device less useful. Users gain NOTHING from the omission of a port.

So yes, if you need something other than wireless, this device is not for you. No one is forcing anyone to buy it.

But that doesn't make the design decisions any less retarded.

And don't think for a second that money was not a factor in this decision-making.

For crying out loud, they designed and released an ADAPTER with the machine because they KNEW that their design decision was "limited", and CHARGE users for it.

That's just bull&^*t and it's hard to not see this as "on-purpose".

Now, this is not to say the RMB is a bad machine. Nothing Apple does is crap.

But I just hate the "on-purpose" and (seemingly) unecessary omissions for the sake of whatever the frak.

 

[rp2011]

yeah it's a nice laptop, but for that money why would anyone choose it instead of a Mac? I mean people only buy Windows laptops because they're cheap right?
If anyone is going to pay that kind of money might as well get the real thing.

 

[melendezest]

I wasn't talking about devices plugged in using more power, but the ports themselves taking up space that could be filled with battery. If you look inside the air, there is no extra space. Everything not a port or a board is battery.

So then it IS about their obsession with thinness.

LOL

It looks like if they could put a port on one side, they could have on the other, given their (lovely) obsession with symmetry:

One thing that cannot be argued: It would have cost them more money to do so.

Another that cannot be argued: What they actually did cost them less and makes them more money.

Business is business.

 

[navaira]

I understand, and this is part of how we rationalize such a decision- we pile up a bunch of relatively rare and unusual scenarios so it sounds like a good thing.

If only I could like this post 100 times.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

yeah it's a nice laptop, but for that money why would anyone choose it instead of a Mac. I mean people only buy a Windows machines because it's cheap right?
If anyone is going to pay that kind of money might as well get the real thing.

I like Macs as much as you but apparently about 9X% of the world is still running Windows. It could be that 9X% of the world is all a bunch of cheapskates but I suspect there is something more than that in play.

 

[arkmannj]

One thing I don't mind about all the copying, it will (or should) keep Apple on their toes and creating product differentiation through innovation.

 

[mdlooker]

Everyone needs an idea to get their invention across. Never mind if the idea is 1%, 10%, (100% ) of someone else's idea..thats beside the point.

 

[furi0usbee]

If Apple had a clothing line, everybody would look the same.

EliteBook Folio has no bezel on the display. That's something I would like to see Apple "copy."

 

[RenoG]

I'm calling it right now...once Apple gets rid of the headphone jack in the iPhone 7, in the next year or so, hardly any smartphones will have them.

I'll go on record with you on this.

 

[citysnaps]

Shocked. Totally.

 

[mi7chy]

Surprise. Apple borrowed the slim laptop concept from the original 1990s Sony VAIO. Clamshells are kind of boring now. The only interesting ones from CES 2016 are with SAMOLED display. My ideal modern form factor device is Surface Pro 5 with 13"+ SAMOLED.

 

[citysnaps]

That's not how i remembered it...

I like the LG one.

This is one place Apple hasan't caught up is in speakers

No Apple laptop has Dolby sound yet..., not even the iPad Pro with the "sound that adjusts as u tilt"

Sure, its cool, but its no Dolby...

Just for the sound alone, I wish Apple had caught up in this, but maybe to much focused on these little tricks instead.

So, this area is one thing that this saying does not work

"No Apple laptop has Dolby sound yet...,"

Doesn't have IMAX theater viewing either. I'm really steamed about that. Totally. Apple is doomed.

 

[TechZeke]

Apple comes up with a new model and everyone else copies it and then goes on later how Apple doesn't innovate anymore. If that's true, then why does everyone copy Apple designs in such a rabid manner?

I'm still waiting for Force Touch to show up on Android devices and PC laptop trackpads. Apple doesn't innovate, but no one was putting touch ID, high resolution displays(on PCs AND smartphones), and calling their mobile payment systems "x"-Pay before Apple.

 

[rp2011]

I like Macs as much as you but apparently about 9X% of the world is still running Windows. It could be that 9X% of the world is all a bunch of cheapskates but I suspect there is something more than that in play.

Not saying anyone is a cheapskate, just that price has been a huge factor for many laptop consumers, especially in enterprise.