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Leopard to Include Virtualization Software?

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MacOSXRumors claims that according to "reliable sources", Apple is developing virtualization software to be incorporated into the next version of Mac OS X - Leopard.

According to the rumor site, the upcoming software is code named "Chameleon" and is being developed alongside both Intel and Microsoft.

Virtualization software would potentially allow users to run alternative operating systems alongside their Mac. There has been previous discussion about Virtualization Technology support in Intel's processors.
 

Shamus

macrumors 6502a
Feb 26, 2006
651
0
Wow, that would be really handy, I never thought Apple would do something like that though.

It would certainly save all the fuss concerning hacking Windows onto the Mac. :)
The article specifies Intel chips though, so would they disable the feature on PowerPC based releases of the OS?
 
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timswim78

macrumors 6502a
Feb 8, 2006
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Baltimore, MD
Sounds pretty cool for people that need Windows applications. Its a much better solution than trying to setup a dual boot Intel OS X / Windows system.
 
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timswim78

macrumors 6502a
Feb 8, 2006
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0
Baltimore, MD
Shamus said:
Wow, that would be really handy, I never thought Apple would do something like that.

It seems to make perfect sense. I'm sure that they could sell many more Macs if the Macs could run important Windows apps.

However, it would be nice to see some more software ported to OS X.
 
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topgunn

macrumors 65816
Nov 5, 2004
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If Microsoft is indeed working along side Apple on this, it may explain why they have not been very quick to say anything about VPC just yet.
 
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Shamus

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Feb 26, 2006
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timswim78 said:
Its a much better solution than trying to setup a dual boot Intel OS X / Windows system.

The only downside to emulation is that it is slower. Dual booting would allow the programs to run in native format, right?
 
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edenwaith

macrumors 6502a
Aug 7, 2001
688
87
Sweet

These are the types of radical features that make a new OS sound very compelling. :)

I'm curious to see when the day will come where we can run multiple operating systems on one system at the same time. Fast OS Switching!

I've heard that some of the IBM servers (i.e. iSeries) can do this and run multiple OS's on one box at a time, so it probably will just be a matter of time when we can do it on a personal computer.
 
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RichP

macrumors 68000
Jun 30, 2003
1,574
13
Motor City
woh. this could be very good news. I am running dual boot on my macbook pro, and while its great for letting me run solidworks on a mac machine; I much rather have windows under full control of OSX and able to quick switch.

There are fears that allowing windows on macs is going to make new users simply default to running windows all the time rather than apple apps. Let me say this: I forget how hokey windows is until I go to use it. If OSX gets the snappiness of windows in its GUI (which the intel stuff does help) and along with its ease of use and eye candy, people wont want to use windows unless they need to.

OSX is strong enough to stand on its own.
 
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Veldek

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Mar 29, 2003
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Shamus said:
The article specifies Intel chips though, so would they disable the feature on PowerPC based releases of the OS?
I think they have to as long as people don't have a Windows version for PPC lying around. As far as I understood, this is no emulation but more a side-by-side running of OSes.
 
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DeepDish

macrumors newbie
Jan 5, 2002
26
0
I don't want to run

I don't want to rull windows and all of its crapware.

I just need a couple of windows apps every once in awhile.

Why? Because some lazy programers make their software pc only.

This is great news. Apple will do it right and make it built into the core.
 
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Shamus

macrumors 6502a
Feb 26, 2006
651
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Veldek said:
I think they have to as long as people don't have a Windows version for PPC lying around.

But what about other OSes, (i dont even know if there are any) where it would be possible to emulate using the PowerPC architecture.
 
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Daveway

macrumors 68040
Jul 10, 2004
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New Orleans / Lafayette, La
This news + MS announcing its opening up the Windows Presentation platform to mac = very good news for virtualization.

I think we're going to see Windows apps that will just run in Mac OS.:cool:
 
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timswim78

macrumors 6502a
Feb 8, 2006
695
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Baltimore, MD
Shamus said:
The only downside to emulation is that it is slower. Dual booting would allow the programs to run in native format, right?

I'm guessing that emulation would be slower.
Yes, dual booting would allow programs to run natively.
Both statements assume that Windows can be configured to correctly use all of the Apple hardware.
 
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topgunn

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Nov 5, 2004
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timswim78 said:
I'm guessing that emulation would be slower.
Yes, dual booting would allow programs to run natively.
Both statements assume that Windows can be configured to correctly use all of the Apple hardware.
Windows is X86 and Intel is X86 so there is no emulation.
 
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Dr.Gargoyle

macrumors 65816
Oct 8, 2004
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lat: 55.7222°N, long: 13.1971°E
Daveway said:
This news + MS announcing its opening up the Windows Presentation platform to mac = very good news for virtualization.

I think we're going to see Windows apps that will just run in Mac OS.:cool:
I can't wait... I am getting fed up nagging the company behind Scientific Workplace for a Mac version. Last time they told me they might have a version ready in 18 months...
 
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colin6969

macrumors newbie
Mar 24, 2006
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Shamus said:
The only downside to emulation is that it is slower. Dual booting would allow the programs to run in native format, right?

This is virtualization, not emulation. Emulation includes the machine code translation of PPC <--> intel. (PPC is what's called "Big Endian", where intel uses "Little Endian" byte ordering systems)

Since the new intel Macs are "little endian", virtualization software can be developed to essentially run near-native x86 OSes (like windows) within OSX. No machine-code translation (emulation) required.

Depending on how far they take it...and if they optimally virtualize the graphics drivers...even Windows games will become runable via Virtualization software.

If this is the case for Leopard...this is definitely what I'm waiting for to get an intel mac.
 
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jamin

macrumors newbie
Jun 21, 2003
10
0
Canada
Virtualization is not emulation. The Virtual Computer would share system resourses with the Host OS passing up most instruction directly to the CPU. So Applications running in the Virtual Computer should run at almost 100% full speed depending on what is happening in the Host System at the time.

Currently VPC on PPC needs to Emulate the X86 CPU to run Windows. Running VPC or better Virtual Server on x86 runs great. Granted the Video drivers in the Guest OS suck so Gaming will not be that great. We use Virtual Server running Win2k3 in the Host and the Guest systems and the guest performance is pretty near native speed.

Edit >> LOL Colin6969 beat me to it :)
 
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byokitis

macrumors newbie
Jun 2, 2005
3
0
End of native Mac Apps

A lot of developers would stop making native Mac Apps if this happens. Why port to the Mac if users could use Window versions?
 
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blasto333

macrumors regular
Jan 3, 2004
241
2
I don't see it happening. It is almost like saying "Our OS can't do everything, so we are providing a solution for you to install other operating systems." I don't think Apple thinks like that. If it happens I will be very surprised.

Anyways, I am very happy with the dual boot, it works perfect. (I have an intel iMac 20'.)
 
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SpankWare

macrumors regular
Mar 9, 2006
107
0
byokitis said:
A lot of developers would stop making native Mac Apps if this happens. Why port to the Mac if users could use Window versions?

Can you cite some examples of who would stop making Mac Apps? This is just the same old FUD. If a company wants to cater to Mac users it will make Mac software.
 
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AtHomeBoy_2000

macrumors 6502a
Feb 3, 2005
879
0
Someone please clearify this for me. WOuld this be running WIndows within OS X or running Windows Apps withing OS X. THere is a differance. THe first requires you to own WIndows, the later does not.
 
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ajbrehm

macrumors 6502
Aug 14, 2002
341
0
Zurich, Switzerland
Mac-on-Linux

Shamus said:
But what about other OSes, (i dont even know if there are any) where it would be possible to emulate using the PowerPC architecture.


Use Mac-on-Linux. http://www.maconlinux.org/

I believe they had a Mac OS X version out at some point.

Runs Linux, Mac OS, Mac OS X, possibly any other PowerPC OS except BeOS (and proprietary IBM systems). Runs on Linux and, as mentioned, possibly OS X.

ShapeShifter did something similar for BeOS.

I used both. They are really good.
 
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SpankWare

macrumors regular
Mar 9, 2006
107
0
blasto333 said:
I don't see it happening. It is almost like saying "Our OS can't do everything, so we are providing a solution for you to install other operating systems." I don't think Apple thinks like that. If it happens I will be very surprised.

Are you suggesting that Microsoft DOES think that way? They don't and neither does Apple. Both companies realize that in today's world Virtualization is necessary. I use it EVERY single day for a variety of purposes from application development to systems testing to actual production use. Virtualization is not an admission that you can't do everything, it's a tool to allow you to do whatever you need.
 
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timswim78

macrumors 6502a
Feb 8, 2006
695
0
Baltimore, MD
topgunn said:
Windows is X86 and Intel is X86 so there is no emulation.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Just to make sure that I am clear:
- If a Windows app is running inside of OS X, on an Intel Mac, then it is called 'virtualization' and not 'emulation.' Is that correct?

Thanks!
 
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