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Is it ok for me to say that you're crazy...?

Sure.

I realize that I am very picky. I have always been into graphic design and I even do graphics work for a label printing company and I just don't like the new graphical changes to the OS... I am extremely sensitive to design and I don't think it's much of a crime to talk about not liking some of the decisions that Apple's graphics department has been coming up with. It doesn't look like the Apple I've come to know and love... it looks like it was just changed because they got bored of the old Dock and menubar. Maybe they made the menubar transparent because of people complaining about menu bar burn in on ACDs. Oh well... what are you going to do? I guess I am too picky. I like the way Mac OS X Tiger looks minus the brushed metal and as long as I'm using AquaExtreme (pre-iTunes look) by Max Rudberg.
 
I understand that don't like the new GUI, I'm calling you crazy because you seem to think there is a huge difference between the Tiger and Leopard scroll bars!

I can't notice any difference - Leopard's do seem a tiny tiny bit flatter, but that might just be the picture - Apple's screenshots look identical to Tiger's.
 
I understand that don't like the new GUI, I'm calling you crazy because you seem to think there is a huge difference between the Tiger and Leopard scroll bars!

I can't notice any difference - Leopard's do seem a tiny tiny bit flatter, but that might just be the picture - Apple's screenshots look identical to Tiger's.

http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/leopard9a466/image/picture07.jpg

Click on this link... the scrollbars don't seem rounded completely at the ends... check out the middle column and you'll see that the scrollbar can't even fit snugly into the scroll arrow notch.
 
After using Leopard, the scrollbars are definitely different and more ugly compared to the ones from Tiger. I completely agree with the topic starter on that point. For me personally, Leopard's UI as it is today is ugly (although I'm really glad they ditched brushed metal).
 
Not so much ugly, as it is un-original

I have to admit, I think that the leopard "improved" theme is quite nice, but I feel like it looks JUST like Vista, the OS that apple has been bashing for quite some time. I was a little turned off by the similarites and I probably will not buy 10.5. With OS Xs media layers, every version has performed well with media and fancy eye candy, but 10.5 really seems like the only improvments are going to use more precious power that I could be using to do my work. Really, I feel that there are no productivity enhancements in leopard. The only thing that I think is kind of nice is time machine, but how will that work on a portable machine that isnt always connected to it's backup disk....? I have never heard anything about that from apple, if anyone knows please post it.
 
Sure.

I realize that I am very picky. I have always been into graphic design and I even do graphics work for a label printing company and I just don't like the new graphical changes to the OS... I am extremely sensitive to design and I don't think it's much of a crime to talk about not liking some of the decisions that Apple's graphics department has been coming up with. It doesn't look like the Apple I've come to know and love... it looks like it was just changed because they got bored of the old Dock and menubar. Maybe they made the menubar transparent because of people complaining about menu bar burn in on ACDs. Oh well... what are you going to do? I guess I am too picky. I like the way Mac OS X Tiger looks minus the brushed metal and as long as I'm using AquaExtreme (pre-iTunes look) by Max Rudberg.

I don't think you need to apologize for that. If you work with a computer all day, changes to the UI are as significant as aesthetic changes to any other aspect of your work environment. I don't want to have to stare at a screenfull of ugly for the next 2 and a half years! Especially since, with Tiger, Apple proved they could do so, so much better. I have to agree that it looks like they're just changing things for the sake of changing them. Where do you go when you've reached the pinnacle of UI design? Down, obviously. They've gone and taken a completely ridiculous, nonsensical complaint -- that there's something wrong with having multiple window styles, and that they must be "unified" -- and gone against their better instincts by "remedying" it. Now we have a UI in which styles and colors clash inside each window, and all of those windows are indistinguishable from each other. You can't escape it anymore -- not with apps that use an alternate UI, and not with themes.

I just can't explain it. Did they fire all of their talented designers? Transfer them all to the iPhone project? Are they TRYING to be ugly, so as to lure disaffected Windows customers, yearning for the simple blandness of the pre-Vista era? Is ugly the new beautiful?
 
I'm inclined to share a lot of the points made by TheSpaz (though I wish you hadn't chosen that name!)

I'm a big big fan of Apple purely because of its OS. Whenever Apple hardware has seemed overpriced, insufficient or whatever, I've remained with a Mac purely on the strength of its OS. But that doesn't mean everything Apple does in OSX is to be welcomed.

Having used Macs since OS7, I tend to agree that the focus on user interface design and simplicity has slowly been getting more and more replaced by pretty shiny eye candy and "oooh! aaah!" effects. The forthcoming sidewalk dock divider is absolutely emblematic of this shift - utterly out of place, adds nothing to the user experience that a simple line couldn't do more easily, more elegantly, and more effectively - but ooooooooh, it's 3D!!!

It's not the Apple I once knew, which I think is a shame. You expect this approach from design novices - to be handed a box with transparency, reflectivity and 3d effects, and for them to just chuck as much of it in as they can get away with.

Ok that's a huge exaggeration I know, Apple aren't that bad. But it's a subtle shift in direction that I've noticed, and I'm not alone in picking up on it.

Yes I know pretty shiny things have played a big part in getting Apple noticed again. But I can't help wonder if they've gone too far in sacrificing some of that elegant simplicity and usability that once sealed their reputation as the masters of user interface design.

Also agree with your points brianus about the unified look. Will have to see how I get on with it once I'm using it reguarly on day-to-day work, but at the moment I'm suspecting they've made the user experience slightly more difficult than easy.
 
another issue about Leopard's dock: it looks like it takes up a lot more space for the reflections, and that weird 2px "shelf" underneath.

i use UNO with tiger, so i hope it will work with leopard. uno + osx = zen.
 
Than stick with tiger...if you don't like leopard than oh well, don't buy the cd. Sheesh:rolleyes:
i never see the point of comments like these.

Whether we end up buying the CD or not is irrelevant to the discussion.

We're simply giving an opinion.
 
One more thing... since Apple redesigned the GUI with vector graphics... does this mean the end of themes? How is anyone going to break into that once it's all math? I can't imagine that Shape Shifter even remotely works in Leopard.

I don't think the whole GUI is vectorized. Its going to be resolution-independent, but that doesn't require vector graphics.
 
I don't think the whole GUI is vectorized. Its going to be resolution-independent, but that doesn't require vector graphics.

The GUI is vector now... That way it looks sharp no matter what resolution it is. Scaling raster graphics makes them look blurry even if they are high resolution... at least with vector graphics... it can draw the pixels the same way no matter what size it is.
 
Than stick with tiger...if you don't like leopard than oh well, don't buy the cd. Sheesh:rolleyes:

We'll have to upgrade sooner or later once we realize that Apple isn't supporting Tiger anymore and all the cool apps are coming out for Leopard only. So how are people on Jaguar and Panther doing?
 
Is it just me or are the drop shadows on Leopard a bit too over-the-top. I like the way the things are in Tiger now. To me Tiger's GUI is the right balance between a nice GUI and functionality. Though I do prefer Plastic to Brushed-Metal
 
Is it just me or are the drop shadows on Leopard a bit too over-the-top. I like the way the things are in Tiger now. To me Tiger's GUI is the right balance between a nice GUI and functionality. Though I do prefer Plastic to Brushed-Metal

I feel the same exact way. Leopards drop shadows are way too soft and big. People seem to think I am being to picky on beta software such as Leopard but, the truth is... how much more work are they going to be able to do to it before it's gold master. It comes out in less than 3 months. I don't see how they are going to be able to drastically change the interface now... seeing as how they don't have much time left and Apples site has the "new look" all over it. I think GUI has just as much importance as features. If I'm gonna have to look at the same thing everyday... I want it to be pleasing to look at. Why do you think I hate using Windows (besides that it sucks non-visually too)?
 
It's hard to evaluate a GUI you're familiar with versus a new one. A better evaluation will be possible after Leopard has been "in the wild" for a few months, and people have been using it every day for weeks.
 
We'll have to upgrade sooner or later once we realize that Apple isn't supporting Tiger anymore and all the cool apps are coming out for Leopard only. So how are people on Jaguar and Panther doing?

Myself, I'm doing alright. :rolleyes: Apple hasn't really stopped supporting panther, it's their software that demands better more often, such as the software for wireless kb+m. Sometimes you get features disabled case we don't have tiger, like in iLife, but what hurts the most is when the small developers with their nifty products that are coded specifically for tiger.
 
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