Let's be honest. Isn't Android 3.0 more what you would expect from a Tablet OS?

[Mad Mac Maniac]

What you're asking is webOS like features, not desktop-like features

webOS??? I'm not sure where you get that. I'm asking for Mac OS X Lion features. (which happens to be a desktop OS) but yes I would like to see some of the features of WebOS and Honeycomb which are more advanced and more comparable to desktop-type features. By that I mean widgets, customizable home screens, tabs in web browser, window view of running apps, etc. These are all things that desktops have had for at least a decade. Of course the way they are used is completely different on a tablet.

So swipe instead of double-tap? I'm imagining this, now what? Wheee? What does this have to do with desktop design?

instead of double tap? what are you talking about? u mean the multitasking bar? .... ok look at Lion. I'm talking about the launchpad, mission control, dashboard, full screen apps, and how seemlessly to move between all of them using finger gestures. that is using the power of desktop with the ease/simplicity of tablet use..

 

[Carouser]

I'm talking about the launchpad, mission control, dashboard, full screen apps, and how seemlessly to move between all of them using finger gestures. that is using the power of desktop with the ease/simplicity of tablet use..

Are you sure that those gestures can work seamlessly when the display and input device are the same? Have you run a mockup of this?

Anyway, you can have your wishlist, that's fine, but I fail to see how implementing those specific touch gestures has anything to do with making iOS 'desktop-like' except in the most selective way. If they add Solitaire or a mouse and pointer to a Windows tablet, have they made that tablet more 'desktop-like', because hey, thing on desktop now thing on tablet, durr

'Desktop-like' is shorthand for 'real' 'serious' computing which is shorthand for 'the stuff I want featured', nothing more or less, unless it's a direct desktop OS port.

 

[nomik2]

I just want webOS but with Apple's hardware design and app catalog...

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Are you sure that those gestures can work seamlessly when the display and input device are the same? Have you run a mockup of this?

Anyway, you can have your wishlist, that's fine, but I fail to see how implementing those specific touch gestures has anything to do with making iOS 'desktop-like' except in the most selective way. If they add Solitaire or a mouse and pointer to a Windows tablet, have they made that tablet more 'desktop-like', because hey, thing on desktop now thing on tablet, durr

'Desktop-like' is shorthand for 'real' 'serious' computing which is shorthand for 'the stuff I want featured', nothing more or less, unless it's a direct desktop OS port.

You don't really need a mockup to know that it would work. iOS 4.3 beta already has the swipe back and forth for switching between apps. the swipe up opens the multitask bar (which could easily be replaced with a more mission control-like view). everything just works out logically the same as on Lion.

Ok, I see your point how saying desktop-like is vauge, but you need to admit that you are being pedantic. "desktop-like" is just a word used to mean "a more robust OS with advanced features that we are used to on a desktop giving us a full computing experience". which clearly isn't talking about adding solitaire and no one would confuse it for that.

iOS 4 is about as simple of an OS as you can get. which is a huge plus for many people. It allows techno challenged people to use it. It also works well on a phone which doesn't require complexity. and it worked on the iPad for the first year (because no one knew any better). But now people are craving more out of our tablets.

Apple needs to mature the OS into something more, and the only thing we have to compare it to is desktop OS's. It's not about my feature list. I hope Apple comes out with a methodology that is better than I could ever imagine... but it is definitely time for some upgrades

 

[Carouser]

Ok, I see your point how saying desktop-like is vauge, but you need to admit that you are being pedantic. "desktop-like" is just a word used to mean "a more robust OS with advanced features that we are used to on a desktop giving us a full computing experience". which clearly isn't talking about adding solitaire and no one would confuse it for that.

lmao I need to admit I'm being pedantic. You use vague terminology and then tell me I have an obligation to interpret it to your benefit. iOS is perfectly 'robust' since it just about never crashes or runs into problems, especially compared to other OSs. I don't see a few swipes being 'advanced features', I don't need my tablet to mimic my desktop, and I'm not sure how you measure what is a 'full computing experience' and what isn't. I've never used something and said 'wow, this isn't a full computing experience after all, how disappointing'. So to go back to the original point, you don't need to be astonished (zounds!) that people voted the way they did, especially when the poll is a false dichotomy.

Apple needs to mature the OS into something more, and the only thing we have to compare it to is desktop OS's. It's not about my feature list. I hope Apple comes out with a methodology that is better than I could ever imagine... but it is definitely time for some upgrades

It mostly likely will be better than you can imagine, since all you can imagine is copying existing interfaces and conceptual models from desktop OSs. I'm sure Lion and iOS 5 will have enough similarities that you can feel iOS is moving towards replicating a desktop experience.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

lmao I need to admit I'm being pedantic. You use vague terminology and then tell me I have an obligation to interpret it to your benefit.

You seem to be an intelligent individual so I know you are comprehending the idea behind using the term "desktop-like" because that is the only thing we have to compare it to. But instead of going with it and moving on you want to be pedantic with terms and express that perhaps I mean we should have solataire to to make iOS be more desktop-like. I admitted in my last post that desktop-like is vauge and probably not the best parrallel, but that was what the OP used and I actually understand what he means by that (and I am pretty sure that most people can determine the intent with the context, expecially when reading through this thread). I'm not going to pretend to be confused and force him to describe exactly in miniscule detail what he means by "desktop-like" and suggesting that perhaps we should add solitaire and mouse options... (some might call this trolling, but I don't think that's your intention)

I don't see a few swipes being 'advanced features',

I'm not even sure why I'm having this discussion with you honestly... The swipes clearly aren't the 'advanced features', they are the simplicity that comes from iOS. What is advanced is the functions that arrise from such a simple action.

I don't need my tablet to mimic my desktop, and I'm not sure how you measure what is a 'full computing experience' and what isn't.
I've never used something and said 'wow, this isn't a full computing experience after all, how disappointing'

.

again, I'm not necessarily talking about perfectly mimicking a desktop (although lion honestly provides a lot of functions that would work beautifully on an iPad). The iPad works very well as a single function machine. Open app A, work, close app A, Open app B, work, close app B. That is all it does. Oh and now you can quickly look at an icon view of recently accessed apps. That's about as basic as it can get. Simplicity has its beauty, but we are smart enough to use widgets and more than one app at a time. We do it on our Macs and PCs every day... Look around at iOS's competition and you see the all the multitasking functions, widgets, notifications, flash and polish, and then look at iOS. it seems very rudimentary in comparison with just a grid of static icons, huge honking notification that hits you in the fact, no widgets, empty lock screen, and very limited multitasking abilities.


Ok, let me try something. Lets get in our time machine and go back to January 2010. The news was a buzz with Apple tablet rumors. A lot of people were expecting it to have Mac OS X, many others a hybrid of iOS and Mac OS X. The iPad only running on basic iOS (iPhone OS at the time) was quite a shock for many people. It seemed like a very basic, "dumbed down" OS for use on a 10 inch screen. But it still took off because a) made by apple b) lightweight c) battery life d) phenominal dev support and e) we didn't really have anything to compare it to. It was the best (only) of it's kind. Now when I see Honeycomb and WebOS I remember the hopes that I had of something more powerful than the simple iPhone OS made for a phone.

It mostly likely will be better than you can imagine, since all you can imagine is copying existing interfaces and conceptual models from desktop OSs. I'm sure Lion and iOS 5 will have enough similarities that you can feel iOS is moving towards replicating a desktop experience.

be careful what you say. Apple is clearly merging the two OS styles. Apple added tons iOS features to the Mac (uh oh do we need to remove those attributes/features from iOS because deskptop and tablet UI's are incompatible!!!!) and I am sure they will be migrating a bunch of Mac features onto iOS.

I know I seem to be downing Apple, but I'm simply a huge apple fanboy staying objective. I'm already locked into the ecosystem and I don't plan on leaving barring any extreme circumstances. I just hope that Apple has been using the last year to really build up iOS for the iPad and that they aren't afraid to change UI features to make things better

 

[Carouser]

You seem to be an intelligent individual so I know you are comprehending the idea behind using the term "desktop-like" because that is the only thing we have to compare it to. . . . I am pretty sure that most people can determine the intent with the context, expecially when reading through this thread. . . I'm not going to pretend to be confused and force him to describe exactly in miniscule detail what he means by "desktop-like"

Actually, I've read people using 'desktop-like' to mean all kinds of things; when pressed as to what they mean, they just give different lists of things they want to see in iOS, not all of which have anything to do with desktop operating systems. I think that people see desktop OSs as more substantial or 'better'; in their minds improvements to iOS are therefore approximations of a desktop. I think the term is useless because it's so expansive; if someone says 'do you think iOS should be more desktop-like' it's reasonable for me to ask for clarification.

Simplicity has its beauty, but we are smart enough to use widgets and more than one app at a time. We do it on our Macs and PCs every day... Look around at iOS's competition and you see the all the multitasking functions, widgets, notifications, flash and polish, and then look at iOS. it seems very rudimentary in comparison with just a grid of static icons, huge honking notification that hits you in the fact, no widgets, empty lock screen, and very limited multitasking abilities.

iOSs competition is visually striking; if looks and appearances are what matter to people then maybe many will prefer the competition. I can 'multitask' on iOS just as I do on a computer; the only limitation is that I can't have two windows side-by-side or run many programs in the background. If people would like those specific features, that's fine, but they can just say that then.

Ok, let me try something. Lets get in our time machine and go back to January 2010. The iPad only running on basic iOS (iPhone OS at the time) was quite a shock for many people. It seemed like a very basic, "dumbed down" OS for use on a 10 inch screen. But it still took off because . . .

It was a shock to a bunch of nerds. It was impressive enough to millions to get them to buy it; it's a leap of faith to think they bought it because they didn't have anything else to buy (there's a lot of other things to spend $500 on) or that they bought it in spite of the OS.

be careful what you say. Apple is clearly merging the two OS styles.

No kidding, I know. They are converging. I don't consider this 'making iOS more like a desktop OS' since both are mutually changing.

 

[Faux Carnival]

Suck it up Carouser, Android is better than iOS. They have the biggest market share too.

 

[shen]

Suck it up Carouser, Android is better than iOS. They have the biggest market share too.

And there are more cockroaches than people. Thus cockroaches are a higher lifeform than people.

 

[spinedoc77]

And there are more cockroaches than people. Thus cockroaches are a higher lifeform than people.

Certainly more survivable...

 

[aluren]

I think the expectation is for tablets to become laptop replacements, hence many who wanted desktop-like experience. I don't think Apple sees the tablet as such, because they want to sell you an iPad AND a Mac Book. Therefore I believe iOS will always be simplistic in nature.

 

[Calidude]

Suck it up Carouser, Android is better than iOS. They have the biggest market share too.

I have to be honest, this is a critical time for Apple.

While Apple's hardware is clearly superior (my 3GS has better zooming and responsiveness than a Nexus S, I found out today) the Android 3.0 OS is clearly superior to iOS in terms of raw featureset. All they need to do is bugfix and make several design changes and Android 3.0 will be nearly perfect as a tablet OS. All they would then need to do is simply start making higher quality hardware to run the OS and it's pretty much a guaranteed big seller.

If Apple doesn't hit a home run with iOS5 in the coming weeks, then you will definitely start to see it's numbers dwindle dramatically, especially when Android 3.0 makes it to phones.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Actually, I've read people using 'desktop-like' to mean all kinds of things; when pressed as to what they mean, they just give different lists of things they want to see in iOS, not all of which have anything to do with desktop operating systems. I think that people see desktop OSs as more substantial or 'better'; in their minds improvements to iOS are therefore approximations of a desktop. I think the term is useless because it's so expansive; if someone says 'do you think iOS should be more desktop-like' it's reasonable for me to ask for clarification.

Ah, I think you have touched on a very important point. People speak in broad generalities because we don't really know what we want. We know we don't want cookie cutter desktop OS's, so we can't really describe what we want it to be like. But we do know that we want more functionality, the type of functionality that we get out of a desktop so that's what we compare it to. We can leave how to obtain similar types of functionality to the professionals. I hope that makes sense

 

[spinedoc77]

I have to be honest, this is a critical time for Apple.

While Apple's hardware is clearly superior (my 3GS has better zooming and responsiveness than a Nexus S, I found out today) the Android 3.0 OS is clearly superior to iOS in terms of raw featureset. All they need to do is bugfix and make several design changes and Android 3.0 will be nearly perfect as a tablet OS. All they would then need to do is simply start making higher quality hardware to run the OS and it's pretty much a guaranteed big seller.

If Apple doesn't hit a home run with iOS5 in the coming weeks, then you will definitely start to see it's numbers dwindle dramatically, especially when Android 3.0 makes it to phones.

This is just part 2, with part 1 being how Android caught up to (and by some reports passed) iOS on the iphones. I'm rooting for the winner, which is competition. Apple does need to bring it in relation to their software.

 

[Calidude]

Ah, I think you have touched on a very important point. People speak in broad generalities because we don't really know what we want. We know we don't want cookie cutter desktop OS's, so we can't really describe what we want it to be like. But we do know that we want more functionality, the type of functionality that we get out of a desktop so that's what we compare it to. We can leave how to obtain similar types of functionality to the professionals. I hope that makes sense

All people mean when they say they want something to be more "desktop-like" is to want a touchscreen tablet that continually approaches the functionality you would find in a consumer desktop OS.

I don't see why this is difficult for people to understand. I thought everybody understood that the ultimate goal for a touch interface paradigm is to first functionally converge with that of a desktop OS's keyboard and mouse paradigm and then, supercede it and progress on its own as a singular paradigm.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

I have to be honest, this is a critical time for Apple.

If Apple doesn't hit a home run with iOS5 in the coming weeks, then you will definitely start to see it's numbers dwindle dramatically, especially when Android 3.0 makes it to phones.

Well you know one thing I just came to the realization of yesterday. the iOS 4 team probably didn't know about the iPad until we did in January due to apple's secrecy. Then they unveiled iOS 4 just a couple of months later so no "iPad" changes could be made. That's also why the the iPad got 4.0 a few months later, because the team got such a late start making 4.0 iPad compatible.

So iOS 5.0 will be the first real update that was designed for the iPad and I think we can be sure that Apple has been working hard on it for a year. I'm expecting it to be pretty good, especially with the "sneak peeks" we see from Lion.

 

[spinedoc77]

All people mean when they say they want something to be more "desktop-like" is to want a touchscreen tablet that continually approaches the functionality you would find in a consumer desktop OS.

I don't see why this is difficult for people to understand. I thought everybody understood that the ultimate goal for a touch interface paradigm is to first functionally converge with that of a desktop OS's keyboard and mouse paradigm and then, supercede it and progress on its own as a singular paradigm.

I think that could mean a MUCH broader definition. How about something as basic as folders? How about windows? These things can also be considered "desktop" like and things users would want.

 

[Carouser]

I don't see why this is difficult for people to understand. I thought everybody understood that the ultimate goal for a touch interface paradigm is to first functionally converge with that of a desktop OS's keyboard and mouse paradigm and then, supercede it and progress on its own as a singular paradigm.

I didn't realize that I had to understand the ultimate goal of a touch interface; I thought such an interface was allowed to run parallel to or leapfrog other interfaces, but apparently not. How did you gain knowledge of this ultimate goal? Is it in Apple's literature or something? Maybe we can just leave @#$%ing around with folders to the dustbin of history instead of duplicating it first and get on with more important things.

 

[Calidude]

I didn't realize that I had to understand the ultimate goal of a touch interface; I thought such an interface was allowed to run parallel to or leapfrog other interfaces, but apparently not. How did you gain knowledge of this ultimate goal? Is it in Apple's literature or something? Maybe we can just leave @#$%ing around with folders to the dustbin of history instead of duplicating it first and get on with more important things.

Well obviously, computers were created as an extension of our brain, so first we'd interact with them through peripherals, then just our hands and speech, then eventually, just our minds because that would be most efficient.

Isn't this obvious to everybody? I mean, come on guys, this has been shown in movies and books so I hope I'm not blowing anybodies mind here...

 

[Calidude]

Well you know one thing I just came to the realization of yesterday. the iOS 4 team probably didn't know about the iPad until we did in January due to apple's secrecy. Then they unveiled iOS 4 just a couple of months later so no "iPad" changes could be made. That's also why the the iPad got 4.0 a few months later, because the team got such a late start making 4.0 iPad compatible.

So iOS 5.0 will be the first real update that was designed for the iPad and I think we can be sure that Apple has been working hard on it for a year. I'm expecting it to be pretty good, especially with the "sneak peeks" we see from Lion.

I really hope you are right because I want to buy the iPhone 5 and get an iPad 3 that doesn't act like a big phone for my older relative.

 

[Nishi100]

Android 3.0 is much better than iOS for iPad.

However, iOS' apps are much better (better, in this case = more available) than Android 3.0. But, then again, in the near future tablet apps for Honeycomb will increase dramatically, and will be the same, in not better quality than iOS', because of the more powerful Tegra 2, for Xoom, specifically this is (Yoda, my name is) (Come see what 2011 will be the year of) - yes, I'm telling Apple that they need to check their grammar, even: "Come and see what 2011 will be the year of," would have been better.

But, I'm expecting great thing from iOS 5.