Lifelong PC user impressed by old MBA - now what?

[Muyfa666]

I just got the new MBA and boy oh boy what a difference!

-The retina kicks ass. No other way to describe it. I tested max brightness and I have no complaints whatsoever.
-The general performance is awesome. It feels alot faster than the old MBA.
-The keyboard is nice, I actually like it. Didn't expect that. ;-)
-Touch-ID - Yes! How could I ever live without it?
-Mousepad. It's great, 'nuff said.
-The size. The screen is as big as the old MBA, but the machine is so much smaller and lighter.

Any negatives? None that I can think of so far. I'm really happy about this purchase.

 

[myrtlebee]

-The keyboard is nice, I actually like it. Didn't expect that. ;-)

You'll like it until it fails

 

[Muyfa666]

You'll like it until it fails

Yes, but isn't that the case with basically everything in life?

 

[myrtlebee]

Yes, but isn't that the case with basically everything in life?

Not really. I feel like it's a matter of when, not if, as far as the butterfly keyboards are concerned. I have no such concern with my 2014 MacBook Air for the keyboard or anything else in particular because there are no widespread issues with this model. It would cause me way too much anxiety to have a butterfly keyboard, but that's just me.

 

[Muyfa666]

Not really. I feel like it's a matter of when, not if, as far as the butterfly keyboards are concerned. I have no such concern with my 2014 MacBook Air for the keyboard or anything else in particular because there are no widespread issues with this model. It would cause me way too much anxiety to have a butterfly keyboard, but that's just me.

It seems you're hell bent on bashing the butterfly keyboards, and that's fine. Me, I'll just have Apple repair my keyboard for free if I get any problems.

If I could've got a MBP 2015 in mint condition, I probably would have done that, but where I live they are few and far between.

If the old MBA had a better screen I would've been happy with that.

If the latest MBP didn't have touch bar, I could've gone with that, but then I'd still get butterfly keys.

As it stands now MBA 2018 is the best option for me, all things considered.

 

[myrtlebee]

It seems you're hell bent on bashing the butterfly keyboards, and that's fine. Me, I'll just have Apple repair my keyboard for free if I get any problems.

If I could've got a MBP 2015 in mint condition, I probably would have done that, but where I live they are few and far between.

If the old MBA had a better screen I would've been happy with that.

If the latest MBP didn't have touch bar, I could've gone with that, but then I'd still get butterfly keys.

As it stands now MBA 2018 is the best option for me, all things considered.

I’m not “hell bent on bashing” anything, I just don’t feel like dealing with inevitable repairs. Apple is hell bent on doubling down on a faulty design.

 

[Muyfa666]

I’m not “hell bent on bashing” anything, I just don’t feel like dealing with inevitable repairs. Apple is hell bent on doubling down on a faulty design.

Each to thier own. I have had plenty of problems with bad QC on PC's historically too, so I'll take my chances.

 

[Hanson Eigilson]

Mac’s tend to be optimised really well, saying that I wouldn’t expect to do anything too demanding. The MacBook Pro is for really demanding work flows.

Maybe take a look at this video, I was surprised when I saw it. Numbers on a screen or paper don’t always mean everything.

There are like 5 applications that are optimised and competitive on mac's, pretty much everything else runs worse, sorry.
That said they are certainly optimised for a competitive surface experience, IE things look nice, discrete animations and stuff like that.

 

[Macdctr]

... I just don’t feel like dealing with inevitable repairs. Apple is hell bent on doubling down on a faulty design.

Not sure if Apple is hell bent on doubling down on faulty design but I can say post-Steve Jobs, Apple under Tim Cook has not done as great of a job regarding quality control which is why we are seeing issues with Apple products these days. Sad to see in my opinion.

Each to thier own. I have had plenty of problems with bad QC on PC's historically too, so I'll take my chances.

I will add that I too am not a fan of the new butterfly style keyboards but that's because of the issues found with the Gen1 and Gen2 keyboards. Even with recalls I feel this is a crucial part on a laptop and should be highly reliable as what you see in scissor type keyboards. It seems there are still issues with the new Gen3 keyboards and people are starting to report them. I don't like to shell out a lot of coin for a product that will eventually fail so it is more a matter of when, not if in this case and that's what turns me off on the current Apple product. Yes, there are more technological improvements in the 2018MBA (Retina display - finally, touch pad, USB C, improved architecture, faster memory to name a few) but even with all these improvements I don't feel like having a laptop where I would also have to pack a bluetooth keyboard to overcome the deficient keyboard that was installed. That's my point.

I hope you are one of the few who does not experience issues with the keyboard. Please keep us up to date on how your new 2018MBA is performing. I'm interested to hear how long the keyboard will last...

 

[Dave245]

There are like 5 applications that are optimised and competitive on mac's, pretty much everything else runs worse, sorry.
That said they are certainly optimised for a competitive surface experience, IE things look nice, discrete animations and stuff like that.

I don’t know where you have got that from because in my experience every app and program that I’ve used over the years has run well.

Granted some are more power hungry than others, like in the video I shared Final Cut Pro was being used by that guy, had he of been using Adobe Premier Pro it would of been a different story.

I agree that things look better on MacOS, my personally experience and opinion is they the Mac and MacOS is bettter.

 

[Hanson Eigilson]

I don’t know where you have got that from because in my experience every app and program that I’ve used over the years has run well.

Granted some are more power hungry than others, like in the video I shared Final Cut Pro was being used by that guy, had he of been using Adobe Premier Pro it would of been a different story.

I agree that things look better on MacOS, my personally experience and opinion is they the Mac and MacOS is bettter.

Better as looking more polished and less complicated, i agree 100% and that matters a lot.
But better in terms of actual performance, no, not even close. Finding software that runs as well on macOS as on other platforms is rare and finding software that is more performant on macOS is very hard indeed.
The same is true for IOS to a lesser degree, for applications more so than games.
Personally I find it hard and intellectually unrewarding trying to optimise for performance on both macOS and IOS for a variety of reasons, many of them related to awkward frameworks, backwards compatibility and platform fragility.

 

[Dave245]

Better as looking more polished and less complicated, i agree 100% and that matters a lot.
But better in terms of actual performance, no, not even close. Finding software that runs as well on macOS as on other platforms is rare and finding software that is more performant on macOS is very hard indeed.
The same is true for IOS to a lesser degree, for applications more so than games.
Personally I find it hard and intellectually unrewarding trying to optimise for performance on both macOS and IOS for a variety of reasons, many of them related to awkward frameworks, backwards compatibility and platform fragility.

But aren’t they bringing iOS apps to the Mac this year with “Marzipan” last year saw Apple being a couple of their first party apps, this year they will open it up to developers. It will be interesting.

As for software, maybe its’ because I’m use to Mac (I’ve used it since 2011) but I find apps like Final Cut Pro X better to use than Adobe Premier Pro. Windows alternatives probably don’t work as well on Mac’s just like Mac software like iTunes doesn’t work well on Windows. Each to their own I guess, i’m really interested to see where Apple takes the Mac next

 

[panjandrum]

You kind of understand me, but if you look up you notice that the lack of retina on the old MBA is the main reason why I won't consider it as my main machine.

UHD displays are great, and there is no doubt that they increase productivity since they make things like working in split-screen mode actually viable (you can't really do that on the smaller of the older standard definition displays because small elements and text become too low-quality and pretty hard to see. This problem goes away on larger standard definition displays, and I suppose the "minimum resolution" will be subjective; To my eyes around a 1080p display or greater is really necessary to really make use of split screen).

Then again, the downside of the new MBa is the crappy keyboard etc. If you are a good typist consider a used/refurbished 13" MacBook Pro with Retina display (before they moved to the crappy keyboard. At least do yourself the favor of typing on one before you buy one. If you care at all about keyboard quality you probably won't want any of Apple's newer laptops).

 

[Muyfa666]

UHD displays are great, and there is no doubt that they increase productivity since they make things like working in split-screen mode actually viable (you can't really do that on the smaller of the older standard definition displays because small elements and text become too low-quality and pretty hard to see. This problem goes away on larger standard definition displays, and I suppose the "minimum resolution" will be subjective; To my eyes around a 1080p display or greater is really necessary to really make use of split screen).

Then again, the downside of the new MBa is the crappy keyboard etc. If you are a good typist consider a used/refurbished 13" MacBook Pro with Retina display (before they moved to the crappy keyboard. At least do yourself the favor of typing on one before you buy one. If you care at all about keyboard quality you probably won't want any of Apple's newer laptops).

I just got the new MBA and boy oh boy what a difference!

-The retina kicks ass. No other way to describe it. I tested max brightness and I have no complaints whatsoever.
-The general performance is awesome. It feels alot faster than the old MBA.
-The keyboard is nice, I actually like it. Didn't expect that. ;-)
-Touch-ID - Yes! How could I ever live without it?
-Mousepad. It's great, 'nuff said.
-The size. The screen is as big as the old MBA, but the machine is so much smaller and lighter.

Any negatives? None that I can think of so far. I'm really happy about this purchase.

I already got the new MBA, so the advice to try first is a bit late... ;-)

 

[panjandrum]

I already got the new MBA, so the advice to try first is a bit late... ;-)

I have failed to read the entire thread!

 

[rjbruce]

Congrats on your purchase. I use a 2017 15" MBP for work and a 2017 13" nonTB MBP at home and I've had no issues with the keyboards and I use it constantly. It feels weird to type on my old MBP I handed down to the kids and really strange to type on a full PC keyboard.

I'm sure they have a higher failure rate than the old keyboards, but I don't think they are as high as some people would have you believe (or they believe). Just don't spill or eat over your keyboard and you'll likely avoid any major issues.

 

[mj_]

It seems you're hell bent on bashing the butterfly keyboards, and that's fine. Me, I'll just have Apple repair my keyboard for free if I get any problems.

You're cute! I can tell that this is your first Apple product, and that you never had to deal with Apple support before.

Let me paint you a picture how that "free repair" is going to play out. There are basically two possible scenarios depending on whether your laptop is still in Apple's 1-year warranty or not.

Scenario 1: you're still in warranty.
They will take a look at it. The so-called genius is going to be shocked and surprised, and he/she is going to swear to God/Buddha/Allah/Spongebob that this has never happened before, and that yours is the first and more importantly only keyboard that has ever failed. He/she might even call a colleague to act similarly surprised and shocked trying to reinforce that lie. Then, they will offer to take it in and replace it for you since they're such a good company and sooooo concerned with their customers. A week or two later they will return the laptop to you. You walk out a happy cookie with a smile on your face.

Scenario 2: you're out of warranty
They will take a look at it. The so-called genius is going to be shocked and surprised, and he/she is going to swear to God/Buddha/Allah/Spongebob that this has never happened before, and that yours is the first and more importantly only keyboard that has ever failed. He/she might even call a colleague to act similarly surprised and shocked trying to reinforce that lie. Then, they will you that unfortunately you're out of warranty and there's nothing they can do to help you. You should have purchased their extended warranty AppleCare (or AppleCare+, depending on country) and will then offer to replace the entire top case including the battery and touchpad, because those are all one single part held together by roughly a metric ton of superglue, for a nice $500.

How do I know all this? Because I've been through this. Three times in eight months.

Seriously, hoping that Apple will do anything "for free" only proves that you have no experience with Apple customer care. Even the fact that you live in Europe doesn't really help either, because Europeans also only get a single year of warranty. The laws state that you get two years of defects liability with automatic reversal of evidence after six months, and Apple has been known to refuse to even look at a defective device for free once it's out of warranty. They've even been instructed to dial back their repairs a Apple's expense in order to push and promote their expensive AppleCare products.

Either way, good luck. I really hope you'll be one of the few who won't suffer from a defective keyboard.

 

[carlsson]

Welcome to the party Muyfa!

FWIW; mj's experience is not the standard experience with Apple repairs.

 

[Muyfa666]

You're cute! I can tell that this is your first Apple product, and that you never had to deal with Apple support before.

Let me paint you a picture how that "free repair" is going to play out. There are basically two possible scenarios depending on whether your laptop is still in Apple's 1-year warranty or not.

Scenario 1: you're still in warranty.
They will take a look at it. The so-called genius is going to be shocked and surprised, and he/she is going to swear to God/Buddha/Allah/Spongebob that this has never happened before, and that yours is the first and more importantly only keyboard that has ever failed. He/she might even call a colleague to act similarly surprised and shocked trying to reinforce that lie. Then, they will offer to take it in and replace it for you since they're such a good company and sooooo concerned with their customers. A week or two later they will return the laptop to you. You walk out a happy cookie with a smile on your face.

Scenario 2: you're out of warranty
They will take a look at it. The so-called genius is going to be shocked and surprised, and he/she is going to swear to God/Buddha/Allah/Spongebob that this has never happened before, and that yours is the first and more importantly only keyboard that has ever failed. He/she might even call a colleague to act similarly surprised and shocked trying to reinforce that lie. Then, they will you that unfortunately you're out of warranty and there's nothing they can do to help you. You should have purchased their extended warranty AppleCare (or AppleCare+, depending on country) and will then offer to replace the entire top case including the battery and touchpad, because those are all one single part held together by roughly a metric ton of superglue, for a nice $500.

How do I know all this? Because I've been through this. Three times in eight months.

Seriously, hoping that Apple will do anything "for free" only proves that you have no experience with Apple customer care. Even the fact that you live in Europe doesn't really help either, because Europeans also only get a single year of warranty. The laws state that you get two years of defects liability with automatic reversal of evidence after six months, and Apple has been known to refuse to even look at a defective device for free once it's out of warranty. They've even been instructed to dial back their repairs a Apple's expense in order to push and promote their expensive AppleCare products.

Either way, good luck. I really hope you'll be one of the few who won't suffer from a defective keyboard.

I'm not in America mate, I'm in Sweden. We probably have one of the best consumer laws in the world. Apple got nothing on the local laws, no matter how they play it in USA.

And also - I'll be fine either way! It's just a computer. If I total it I'll just buy a new one - that's about as bad as it can get.

Oh, and "cute" translates to "pretty" for me, which I can assure you I am most certainly not! ;-p

[doublepost=1549660686][/doublepost]

Welcome to the party Muyfa!

FWIW; mj's experience is not the standard experience with Apple repairs.

Thanks for the welcome!

 

[auxbuss]

Oh, and "cute" translates to "pretty" for me, which I can assure you I am most certainly not! ;-p

Well, beauty is usually in the eye of the beholder, so don't disqualify yourself ;-)

 

[Koh Phi Phi]

Yes, but isn't that the case with basically everything in life?

I was like you: I liked my MBP with butterfly keyboard until the "B" letter stopped working just 2 months out of guarantee. So, I went to the Apple Store and they quoted me... SEVEN HUNDRED DOLLARS PLUS TAX to fix the keyboard. Let that sink in... $700 + Tax for one faulty key...

So I went on the internet to read Apple-centric forums, and low and behold there was a myriad of people reporting the same keyboard problem. Hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of posts reporting issues with keyboards, just like mine.

That is no "the case with basically everything in life", as you put it. That is piss poor quality control over what's supposed to be a premium product with an outrageous repair price tag.

Sorry man, but that is simply NOT ok, and when it happens to you (hopefully it wont), you will hate paying $700+tax to fix a broken key...

 

[Muyfa666]

”So you got a new Mac? It’s gonna break! Any minute now!”

I’m not gonna return it, so I really don’t need the negativity anymore. If if breaks I’ll repair it or throw it out. That’s all there is to it.

I’m really happy with my new MBA, can’t I just be that way until or if it breaks? Jeez!

 

[Macdctr]

”So you got a new Mac? It’s gonna break! Any minute now!”

I’m not gonna return it, so I really don’t need the negativity anymore. If if breaks I’ll repair it or throw it out. That’s all there is to it.

I’m really happy with my new MBA, can’t I just be that way until or if it breaks? Jeez!

Enjoy your new MBA and don't worry about the keyboard... at least for now. As you have posted that your country have better consumer laws than we in the States do so worry about the keyboard failing if and when it does fail... until then have fun using your new Mac

 

[Koh Phi Phi]

How do those "better consumer laws" materialize exactly? Is Apple forced to offer 2 year guarantee instead of the default 1 year?

 

[Muyfa666]

If the error is due to a fault that was there from the beginning (eg. poor keyboard design) Apple will have to fix it for 3 years after the purchase, no matter how short their warranty is.