Linus Tech Tips - Is the MacBook Pro 2018 REALLY Bad?

[maflynn]

they have a combined hardware team and a combined software team which oversee everything from macs to iPhones and other products and MacOS, iOS and the other OSes respectively

Good point, I forgot about that aspect of Apple. I agree, with your point and that having shared resources like that can have some negative consequences, especially as they try to prep new iPhones, iPads, MacBooks and of course our beloved MBP

I'm not down on the MBP, for me, and my needs, its a fantastic computer and I'm not dealing with the issues that others are.

 

[CRoebuck]

( I stopped using a Mac for 2 years because I wasn't pleased with what they offered in the 15" model in 2016 and 2017. But Apple did a fairly good job with thermals here (other than their obsession with quiet fan settings) given the chassis they've decided to use. Motherboards warping is not a thing. GPUs fry, VRMs commit suicide by heat, charging port chips melt (mostly only on older HP Spectre x360 models) but laptop motherboards don't often warp from heat to the point of failure.

- Lisa from MobileTechReview 😎

So you returned to the 2018 MacBook Pro after your Surface Book 2 experiment?. I think the SB2 is a fine machine and Windows isn't the shower it once was. Think I'll give it a few more months to see how those 3rd Gen keyboards hold up before pulling the trigger.

 

[christarp]

I really wish Apple would just embrace nvidia once again. I don't know if it'll ever happen, but we've been stuck with the same cards for multiple years now that are clearly subpar to nvidia's offerings. I get that around the 35w thermal envelope AMD is somewhat competitive, but they really need to move up to a 1050ti in these things at the very least.

If they do stick to AMD at least use some of the technologies they offer like freesync displays in their macbook line, or an HBM equipped vega. I'd really like the macbook pro line to move up to a 100w total power package rather than 80ish watts.

 

[hdrummon]

Is the MacBook Pro 2018 REALLY Bad?

That's the question that Linus asks on his recent Linus Tech Tips video

I will say there's more on what he stated that I agree with, then disagree. I understand he's a PC/Windows guy, but he makes a lot of good points, like the removal the data recovery port on the Logic board.

He also mentions that consistent high temps (in the high 90s) is very bad for the long term health of the computer, something I've said all along, but many people poo-pooed as the chips are designed to handle the temps. The CPU is, but as he points out, the logic board can warp over time, and there are other components that could fail.

I've configured my MBP and I don't really come close to 90c for most of my tasks, which gives me some peace of mind.

My opinion is he is a drama queen. I've not seen anything that he talks about with my laptop. Heat solved with the firmware update. No speaker noise. No overheating. NADA. I don't buy into his stuff. He earns income from stirring the pot like Faux News. Grain of salt.

 

[turbineseaplane]

My opinion is he is a drama queen. I've not seen anything that he talks about with my laptop. Heat solved with the firmware update. No speaker noise. No overheating. NADA. I don't buy into his stuff. He earns income from stirring the pot like Faux News. Grain of salt.

Well - to be fair, there are people here on this forum reporting those issues though.. (and other ones)

 

[mdnz]

My opinion is he is a drama queen. I've not seen anything that he talks about with my laptop. Heat solved with the firmware update. No speaker noise. No overheating. NADA. I don't buy into his stuff. He earns income from stirring the pot like Faux News. Grain of salt.

Just like you should ignore the 30 and 70 page threads on here right?

 

[maflynn]

I've not seen anything that he talks about with my laptop

Me too, but that doesn't negate all those people who are dealing with significant KPs thanks to the T2 chip, or the speaker issues, or the thermal issues. While there are people have problem free laptops, doesn't mean by and large there's no issues with the laptop.

Everyone is entitled to his opinion, but he's not the only one reporting issues, so does that make others drama queens as well? What about members who are dealing with it, are they wrong?

 

[Falhófnir]

I really wish Apple would just embrace nvidia once again. I don't know if it'll ever happen, but we've been stuck with the same cards for multiple years now that are clearly subpar to nvidia's offerings. I get that around the 35w thermal envelope AMD is somewhat competitive, but they really need to move up to a 1050ti in these things at the very least.

If they do stick to AMD at least use some of the technologies they offer like freesync displays in their macbook line, or an HBM equipped vega. I'd really like the macbook pro line to move up to a 100w total power package rather than 80ish watts.

With the likelihood being Apple will begin transitioning to in house CPUs, and that they already design (granted low power integrated) GPUs it will be interesting if they take graphics in house too... as they can get 15W/U performance out of 5W chips there’s potentially a lot of room for them to play with. Should negate nasty TDP surprises from 3rd parties as well...

 

[thadoggfather]

It is absurd to me that the top end 15", most expensive model, is also the most problematic

Way to kill all incentive Apple/intel

 

[Premal212]

With the likelihood being Apple will begin transitioning to in house CPUs, and that they already design (granted low power integrated) GPUs it will be interesting if they take graphics in house too... as they can get 15W/U performance out of 5W chips there’s potentially a lot of room for them to play with. Should negate nasty TDP surprises from 3rd parties as well...

If they can and they do it right they will be incredible. When Apple designs for Apple the power to performance ratio is insane. You compare fcpx to premier pro, the difference is nuts.

I’m just not sure about producing chips for computers, it’s a big step up from iOS. Not just dealing with fruit ninja and what’s app anymore, there are some seriously power demanding apps that need care and attention. Only time will tell.

Maybe we’ll see the MacBooks with their own cpus first and the rest will come shortly after.

 

[Falhófnir]

If they can and they do it right they will be incredible. When Apple designs for Apple the power to performance ratio is insane. You compare fcpx to premier pro, the difference is nuts.

I’m just not sure about producing chips for computers, it’s a big step up from iOS. Not just dealing with fruit ninja and what’s app anymore, there are some seriously power demanding apps that need care and attention. Only time will tell.

Maybe we’ll see the MacBooks with their own cpus first and the rest will come shortly after.

I have every confidence in Apple's chip team to blow us away - it's one area they are currently leagues ahead on. Apple are almost the new Intel of the mobile processor world... I expect, honestly they've been testing, optimising and retesting this for years, it's not going to be something they throw together now for a 2020 release. iOS is basically macOS running on ARM already at it's core so we're talking well over a decade of experience on the OS side, and almost as long developing chips.

I'm honestly not sure about how they will approach it - in one way it would make sense to start small with the MacBook line and expand it out from there, but then it also makes sense to just rip the plaster off and get it over and done with so everyone immediately starts focusing on the shift without delay. If they release a 2020 MacBook with ARM CPUs and declare 'this is the future' but also release a 2020 x86 MBP, who's going to buy the MBP, even if they promise support for 7 years - they can't speak for developers continuing to patch for x86 versions of software while the userbase is falling away and they are busy with ARM coding and optimisation...

As we're drifting a bit off topic, I will bring it back with it almost makes me hesitant to go in for the 2019 pro - if I was dependent on more specialised software I'd probably hold fire. As most of my work is word processing or web based, however, I think I should be OK until I'm ready to upgrade again.

 

[maflynn]

I have every confidence in Apple's chip team to blow us away

I'm not really open to them moving to an ARM design. I do think there's more to it and its not a simple solution. I for one would be leaving the Mac platform, but at this stage, I don't want to jump to conclusions.

 

[lisag]

Here's what I'm using, not very aggressive (I could lower the trigger temps but that hasn't been necessary). Mine is set to use CPU Core 1 and 3 for these triggers.

@lisag Love your reviews. I was watched 3 of them yesterday 🙂 . I hope it isn't too much off topic, but would mind sharing your specific Macs Fans settings?

[doublepost=1536014652][/doublepost]I still have the Surface Book 2 15". It's a great travel machine since it does the pen (I draw in my spare time), GTX 1060 (I game in my spare time) plus general laptop tasks. I'm using the 2018 15" MacBook Pro as my main work machine now though (poor SB2!). Why? When not traveling I have the luxury of having a gaming laptop at home and a pen monitor so I can live without the pen and GTX 1060 in the SB2. Also, the 6 core, 45 watt CPU is more able to handle some of the tasks I do... SB2 15" CPU cores hit upper 90's C during my heavier workloads. And then there's Final Cut Pro, which I do prefer.

So you returned to the 2018 MacBook Pro after your Surface Book 2 experiment?. I think the SB2 is a fine machine and Windows isn't the shower it once was. Think I'll give it a few more months to see how those 3rd Gen keyboards hold up before pulling the trigger.

 

[Ma2k5]

I really wish Apple would just embrace nvidia once again. I don't know if it'll ever happen, but we've been stuck with the same cards for multiple years now that are clearly subpar to nvidia's offerings. I get that around the 35w thermal envelope AMD is somewhat competitive, but they really need to move up to a 1050ti in these things at the very least.

If they do stick to AMD at least use some of the technologies they offer like freesync displays in their macbook line, or an HBM equipped vega. I'd really like the macbook pro line to move up to a 100w total power package rather than 80ish watts.

As you somewhat said, due to the thermal envelope, moving to Nvidia won't impress anyone when they end up with a chip somewhere between an MX150 and a GTX 1050 (unless you do some tasks which work much better with Nvidia tech).

Moving to 100w total package or things like freesync/HBM are things that really don't matter to their core demographic and more so it is a very fringe one - and even if they were to branch out, in addition to making their core demographic having to deal with some compromises, it is not like a 1050 TI equipped MacBook is going to bring lots of gamers on board with Apple due to high price entry point and MacOS support limitations. To add, due to how much of the gamer demographic are Window's based, you can expect even less developer support! It just doesn't make sense from an Apple perspective.
[doublepost=1536015647][/doublepost]

I'm not really open to them moving to an ARM design. I do think there's more to it and its not a simple solution. I for one would be leaving the Mac platform, but at this stage, I don't want to jump to conclusions.

I am not sure if Apple are great chip makers, I mean comparing iPhone CPU benchmarks to Android's isn't exactly a good base for that surely? One of the main reason the Apple CPU performs faster is because is it ~twice the size of say the Snapdragon CPU's - which seems like a huge deal to me.

When it comes to Android vs iOS performance to boot, OS differences mean that iOS may appear faster at some tasks but it is because it is having to do a lot less work (and also multi-tasking is a LOT better on Android). I am not saying Apple don't make good chips, I just don't know how good they are technically.

It is quite a leap to go from being able to make good(?) CPU's for their own product solely designed for it's much simplistic OS - and one that can handle various OS's. Let's not forget, they quit making CPU's for their own laptops and jumped ship to Intel due to what I believe was performance/compatibility reasons.

 

[alphaod]

Apple definitely isn't as high quality as they used to be when it comes to build quality, but I'd say they are doing pretty good for the volume they have.

 

[Vazza]

View attachment 779525 Here's what I'm using, not very aggressive (I could lower the trigger temps but that hasn't been necessary). Mine is set to use CPU Core 1 and 3 for these triggers.

Lisa, which 15” MBP do you have? I think that would affect what settings to use for the fans surely due to the different thermals?

Edit: Nevernind just seen your post!

 

[maflynn]

Here's what I'm using, not very aggressive (I could lower the trigger temps but that hasn't been necessary). Mine is set to use CPU Core 1 and 3 for these triggers.

That's basically what I use, and coupled with the Volta app, I find my MBP running fairly cool.

 

[adamjackson]

Why do YouTubers always put up screen-shots that make them look constipated? I don't click videos with images like this because they look constipated then I click play and they start "hey what's up guys how's it going..xxxxx here with another amazing video. shout out to my notification squad. smash that like button"

OMFG shut up.
[doublepost=1536071825][/doublepost]I'm working right now at my desk, normal applications open, memory load, etc and these are my temps:

I have the entire office suite open, lightroom, 4K external monitor and everything going through a CalDigit Thunderbolt 3 dock.

Are these temps high? IDK, but posting it might help others I have a 32GB DDR, 1TB, Core i9 MBP sitting on a raised VESA shelf so it gets decent air flow.

 

[doitdada]

I really wish Apple would just embrace nvidia once again. I don't know if it'll ever happen, but we've been stuck with the same cards for multiple years now that are clearly subpar to nvidia's offerings. I get that around the 35w thermal envelope AMD is somewhat competitive, but they really need to move up to a 1050ti in these things at the very least.

I had a Surface Book 2 with a 1050 Ti, and I didn't feel it was any better. Gaming is still hard to do on such a small computer due to the power of modern GPUs and requirements from the games. Personally I would be content with the 555 and 560 on the Mac for applications, but would invest in a desktop for gaming.

 

[The Mercurian]

Why do YouTubers always put up screen-shots that make them look constipated? I don't click videos with images like this because they look constipated then I click play and they start "hey what's up guys how's it going..xxxxx here with another amazing video. shout out to my notification squad. smash that like button"

OMFG shut up.

😀😀
You just summed up all of youtube

 

[adamjackson]

😀😀
You just summed up all of youtube

Not the channels I follow. I don't participate in that BS and I'd guess all of the channels I watch don't have a huge team of people producing them. Linus has a whole team, they have to pay the bills which means they need likes and subscriptions to sell advertisers on the eye-balls that are engaged. Just a guy with a camera is what I enjoy watching and those guys don't ask for likes or ask oddly enthusiastic.

 

[SDColorado]

You just summed up all of youtube

Linus is a little worse than most though, especially his ad breaks. He reminds me far to much of the ShamWow guy to ever take seriously. Austin Evans is pretty damned annoying too

 

[maflynn]

Linus is a little worse than most though, especially his ad breaks. He reminds me far to much of the ShamWow guy to ever take seriously. Austin Evans is pretty damned annoying too

LOL, shamwow.

He's goofy, he adds a lot of humor but he's not afraid to try something. He knows his stuff, imo, and I think with his technical experience his YT one of my favorites. I think he nailed it with his reporting the inability to repair his iMac Pro that he broke. He was fully up front that he was going to pay for it, he wasn't trying to sleaze his way into a warranty repair, but apple refused on a number of fronts.

 

[SDColorado]

LOL, shamwow.

He's goofy, he adds a lot of humor but he's not afraid to try something. He knows his stuff, imo, and I think with his technical experience his YT one of my favorites. I think he nailed it with his reporting the inability to repair his iMac Pro that he broke. He was fully up front that he was going to pay for it, he wasn't trying to sleaze his way into a warranty repair, but apple refused on a number of fronts.

I do agree with you on the iMac repair thing. That was insane that Apple refused to repair something when he was basically begging them to take his money and repair it.

I saw a bit of a follow up where Rossman dumped two glasses of water straight into his Lenovo laptop keyboard and let them know he did it. Not only did Lenovo replace it, they did it under warranty.

I am not saying I don’t ever watch his stuff and he does do some insane stuff like... was it a 16K monitor he did for gaming? Awesome .

I just hate his plugs and as spots.

 

[Hitrate]

I unsubscribed from Linus years ago, since he first started to get big. Too much money, too many distractions, not enough time to really think about what you're doing, and such a large population of angry apple haters to cope with. This means they will be releasing videos to randomly bash on Apple just to get views, even if they don't themselves believe in what they are saying.

The data recovery port is gone, that's because Apple can recover your data via one of the Type-C ports.
90 degrees isn't high and has never been high for electrical components, especially solid-state ones, basically everything except the CPU are designed to work at over 100 degrees constantly. It's one thing that I water cool my desktop to under 50 degrees under max load, it's another to understand the physics and engineering, which indicate that such cooling solutions are completely overkill.
Properly treated PCBs will take temps well above 100 degrees, again. Baking this stuff in over 100 degrees is how you consolidate the components.

All I read are excuses excuses excuses. Talking about properly treated PCB's at 100 degress is such a huge fail, it's like a million austriges sticking their head in the ground. These Mac's are FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED. NOT ENOUGH COOLING. THEY RUN TOO HOT. IT'S THAT SIMPLE !
[doublepost=1536096028][/doublepost]

I think his words were a bit of a sweeping generalisation. Sitting here with my 2018 MBP on my lap running various office apps, Safari and a work VPN tunnel to a database and a TM backup running and.... the CPU is running at 40 deg C, the fans are parked at 0 rpm and the case is cold to touch.

For me the 2018 MBP has been rock-solid and a joy to own.

Congrats. You're using it like a Macbook Air, nothing to see here.
[doublepost=1536096691][/doublepost]

1) Coffee Lake laptop core temps are hot across the board compared to 7th gen HQ 45 watt CPUs. I don't think Intel gave manufacturers everything they needed early enough to mitigate this. The expected logic of "it's still 45 watts, so it shouldn't run hotter" hasn't quite worked out. I have simply never seen so many laptops hit the 90s C under heavy benchmarking in my 20 yeas of reviewing laptops.

2) Previous posters who mentioned that some of us reviewers (including me 😉) have given a variety of very thin and light Coffee Lake laptops a hard time for CPU core temps are right. Hello, XPS 15 and those ever-toasty VRMs.

3) I personally own the 2.6GHz Core i7 2018 15" model, and CPU core temps are typically 45-50C unplugged with light to moderate load. During the workday, I use it plugged in to a 4K LG monitor (with the Mac's panel active as a second display at default scaled resolution) and use the hell out of it with Photoshop, Final Cut, Dreamweaver, Office, and a variety of other programs running throughout the day. That 4K monitor forces the AMD GPU to remain active and is a great way to increase heat levels. The Mac typically runs at 62-65C with light use. It will hit 70s to 80's with heavier use. Final Cut exports will bring the core temps to the upper 80s and sometimes low 90s. That's in line with the direct Windows competition in terms of temps (substitute Premiere Pro under Windows). Dell XPS 15, 15" Razer Blade and even the larger Alienware 15 R4... you get the idea. I've always run my Mac 12 hours per day... we'll see how this one holds up.

4) The AMD GPU is nothing to write home about in terms of performance (though Apple apps optimize extremely well for it and really use it well). I can see why they went with that GPU though- it uses less watts and generates much less heat than the equivalent NVIDIA GPU. That's how Apple gets thinner than the competition while not getting hotter.

5) I use Macs Fan Control to start raising fan RPMs earlier than Apple does (based on CPU core temps). Apple prefers quiet, but I prefer a machine that isn't baking itself- I want it to last a good long time. I did the same for my 2015 15" MacBook Pro. Noise on the 2018 model isn't much worse for this. I highly recommended for those who push their 15" MBPs hard.

6) Any video about Macs will get views- one doesn't have to bash or adore the Mac- Apple laptops get the views. Of course, clickbait titles are effective, at least in the short term. Immediate gratification and dollars, but in the long term you'll lose some of your more clever and discerning viewers... depends on who your target audience is as to whether that matters.

7) The recovery port makes no sense due to the T2 chip. I'll take that added security over letting others recover my data. Time Machine is the brain dead easiest backup solution on the market. I love knowing if someone steals my tantalizingly expensive Mac, they won't be able to get at my data.

8) I am not an Apple apologist, and dongle life, the obsession with thinness and a keen lack of transparency about the Butterfly Keyboard 3rd gen tweaks are not cool at all. I stopped using a Mac for 2 years because I wasn't pleased with what they offered in the 15" model in 2016 and 2017. But Apple did a fairly good job with thermals here (other than their obsession with quiet fan settings) given the chassis they've decided to use. Motherboards warping is not a thing. GPUs fry, VRMs commit suicide by heat, charging port chips melt (mostly only on older HP Spectre x360 models) but laptop motherboards don't often warp from heat to the point of failure.

- Lisa from MobileTechReview 😎

I feel like you're doing a disservice to the (intelligent part of your) audience with statements like 5)

Dismissing the throttling fact because you only do light work with one 4k monitor, then advertising the use of a third party fan speed-up program, totally dismissing the fact that for a bunch of people, noise, speeds turned down due to heat that affects performance could be detrimental for certian professionals, really, you gotta think through what you're spreading out there to the internet. Be real, it should be your job right? It's as if half of the population is filled with this cognitive dissonance incapability to see clearly and talk clearly. Talk the truth! Don't just belittle or dismiss issues. THE WHOLE POINT OF INVESTING IN SUCH AN EXPENSIVE PREMIUM "PRO" ECOSYSTEM, IS THE FACT THAT YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO TRUST YOUR EQUIPMENT AND GET THE WORK OUT OF IT YOU NEED DONE. JUST BECAUSE LIGHT WORK USAGE IS NOW DONE ON OVERLY CAPABLE PRO MACHINES DOESNT MEAN FOR REAL PRO USERS ITS MAGICALLY A NON ISSUE THAT CAN JUST BE REMIDIED WITH A FAN SPEED BUMP.

The fans are not as loud as the old mac's, BUT fan speed and noise IS there, and the problem is worse in the new models if you had hoped to push it as much as possible, which is why you'd need a pro machine in the first place, otherwise there are Macbook's and Macbook Airs and iPads galore for people who like high fan speeds, low performance, and putting 8 excuses on top of claiming to not be an apologist. Everything is "funny" and a "joke" these days right? The notch, oh get over it, it's a design feature. The throttling, oh get over it, just max out the fans....Back in the day Apple users had some self respect, Apple had some customer respect, reviewers had some viewer respect. Now adays you gotta weed through so much s... we really are living in the Fake News era.