Linus Tech Tips - Is the MacBook Pro 2018 REALLY Bad?

[shaunp]

I agree with everything that he has posted and many of the things said by other Mac bashers. If Mac OS and Final Cut Pro was available on other platforms, I would switch in a heartbeat and I know almost everyone at my work would as well. I miss the days when Apple made things to be great and then released it. Late models of MBPs, iMacs....the failed MacPro says everything I need to know about the company and their thoughts on its consumers. Stop being fanboys and taking what they shove....that is why they can pass off mediocre products and premium prices. If most of the Mac fanboys stopped to think, they would sell better products like they used to. After 20+ Macs and 11 iPhones, I am not staying with Apple products until they show some improvements.

I think that's a key point - how many would stick with Apple hardware if the OS and key apps were supported on generic PC hardware? I went back to PC's (desktop and laptop), not because of the software but because of the hardware. I still prefer Mac OS, but Apple don't make hardware that would support my workloads or that I would trust not to break down.

Got sick of failing MBP's, been fobbed off with poor response and then to later find there was a warranty replacement programme. Also got sick of the hardware been so far behind what's happening on PC's and every time a new one came out a whole new set of dongles would be needed - just make the machine thicker and put some ports in it.

MBP has finally been updated to 32GB RAM. Lenovo have just announced 64GB in their light and thin model (X1 Carbon Extreme) and their workstations now support 128GB. Good think the MBP isn't been sold as a mobile workstation eh? And years to develop a new Mac Pro? I don't get it. It's an abject lesson in how to drive away your pro customers.

 

[smetvid]

I feel sorry for the crotch of those that run a laptop at 100 degrees 24/7. Forget logic board warping. Whats that doing to my other parts...

 

[SDColorado]

I returned my 2018 MBP today, had issues with the fans and temps running up randomly, even when doing basically nothing.

I also had a few instances of keys not registering. I am not convinced that the keyboard issue is solved, even with the addition of the key condom.

 

[macintoshmac]

I think his words were a bit of a sweeping generalisation. Sitting here with my 2018 MBP on my lap running various office apps, Safari and a work VPN tunnel to a database and a TM backup running and.... the CPU is running at 40 deg C, the fans are parked at 0 rpm and the case is cold to touch.

For me the 2018 MBP has been rock-solid and a joy to own.

What is your ambient temp?

 

[RobbieTT]

Mid 20s deg C. When I posted screenshots it was around 30 deg C.

 

[macintoshmac]

Perhaps, but its not a one off type of change, because that increased cooling setup could be used for future generations. I don't get it, in all honesty, it may be unfair, but I really don't feel like Apple is putting in the effort to make the best possible laptop. Its good enough seems to be the philosophy, that may be unfair and incorrect but I'm not sure what other explanation fits

Over the years, I have felt this same philosophy. To myself, I call it 'iterative mentality' of Apple. Most obvious with iPhones, but now with laptops as well.

 

[bobbie424242]

Why do YouTubers always put up screen-shots that make them look constipated?

They do it because it works. Video thumbnail with youtube star posing with silly mimic => millions of views. Among other things, you'd better have a super expressive face to be a successful youtuber...

 

[ugahairydawgs]

Me too, but that doesn't negate all those people who are dealing with significant KPs thanks to the T2 chip, or the speaker issues, or the thermal issues. While there are people have problem free laptops, doesn't mean by and large there's no issues with the laptop.

But that goes for any product in existence. There's no way to release something, especially computers on the scale that Apple does, without some duds making it into the market. That doesn't point to a wide spread issue effecting a large swath of users as much as, IMO, it points to an overly heightened sense of worry that your $3,000+ purchase will one day, potentially, possibly develop an issue.

For the latter I would suggest picking up AppleCare and to stop reading threads about other people's issues.

 

[adamjackson]

They do it because it works. Video thumbnail with youtube star posing with silly mimic => millions of views. Among other things, you'd better have a super expressive face to be a successful youtuber...

I don't have millions of subscribers but I often get comments and private messages or meet people in person who say "I'm so thankful you don't resort to gimmicks. your videos are informative and straight forward and it's appreciated" but it's just a hobby for me. and on a less professional and more personal note, I just don't like those kind of creators.

 

[Kroner]

I don't have millions of subscribers but I often get comments and private messages or meet people in person who say "I'm so thankful you don't resort to gimmicks. your videos are informative and straight forward and it's appreciated" but it's just a hobby for me. and on a less professional and more personal note, I just don't like those kind of creators.

They have made a video explaining why they do it. Link.

 

[thadoggfather]

I do have to hand it to Linus:

he is an Apple fanboy even though he plays both teams (MS) but has been brutally honest about Apple's recent mishaps

Gives me an appreciation when people can look past their own bias

 

[adamjackson]

They have made a video explaining why they do it. Link.

Like I said, he has a staff, bills to pay and has to follow trends. I've adjusted how I browse the web to ignore images. If you go to youtube.com/trending and filter out ALL CAPS and the thumbnails, the actual video titles aren't that great and aren't very click-worthy and that's why the all caps and images are so important. But if your content is great, you don't need those things unless everyone else is doing it then you do.

His comment in the video about youtube hiding his video based on dis-likes it makes no sense to me. I've been running a test lately because I hear of people saying that you only get their videos if you allow youtube to notify you via email of a new video. I'm not going to let someone's upload schedule create a new email in my inbox so I decided to export all of my YouTuber subscriptions to OPML and ingest them into my RSS reader.

https://www.youtube.com/feed/subscriptions
&
the OPML Export

They are perfectly in sync. Going directly to a creator's channel, I see every video they've posted has shown up on that URL and the OPML feed so I can't understand why Linus in the video you linked to and people I subscribe to are claiming youtube for not showing their videos to subscribers. It's a myth as far as I'm concerned because I have 119 channels I'm subscribed to and none of them have videos hidden from my view based on an algorithm or the like to dislike ratio.

 

[macintoshmac]

Had a 5 minute experience with the 15" 2.2 at an Apple Store yesterday.

I did not need more than 5 minutes since I was only concerned with two things:

- how much better is the third generation keyboard
- what are the thermals like

That said, here is what I found.

Keyboard is positively quieter, I could notice that quietness in Store, and I was not expecting it to be so much quieter that I could notice it in Store. Feel is slightly different for sure, the low travel has never been more apparent, and I fancy it might have a softer actuation point, due to which the low travel became so apparent. It is still the same new generation of low travel keyboards that we all love to hate.

Thermally, I never found a demo MacBook so warm to touch. Never. The entire laptop was warm and this was 2.2 model. The Store guy said this is due to the demo loop running, but come on, it should not be that warm to touch. Wonder what the 2.6 might be like then.

The speakers are definitely better than my old 13 2016, but that was the case with the 15" 2016 models as well. These ones are nicely loud.

I came out feeling that if I need it need it, there is no better option than to go with 2.6, since that comes with 512GB storage, and just hope it does not throttle that way. However, I do not know if the 2.2 gets so warm, in store, what am I going to be looking at with 2.6, and this is not even summer.

One thing to note is that I did not know if supplemental updates were installed or not. If anyone can tell me how to check (I do not know the build numbers of macOS for 2018 models with supplemental 2) I will certainly check that some day again.

Overall, I really liked this laptop over the 13 I had and it had nothing to do with the configuration, it had everything to do with the size. I now feel that I am in the right direction with a two-prong approach of MBP12 for on the go and either MBP15 or iMac for desk.

 

[Thysanoptera]

The entire laptop was warm and this was 2.2 model. The Store guy said this is due to the demo loop running, but come on, it should not be that warm to touch. Wonder what the 2.6 might be like then.

When it comes to how hot it is, all are set to run close to 100C, Apple prioritizes noise above all for some reason, with very laggy fan response, so every single one, whether 2.2 or 2.9, will be warm/hot when running similar software. For now you can still set the fans to follow your own curve if you want it to be cooler, and the fan noise, even at 100% is ok, compared to the jet blasts coming from comparable windows laptops.

 

[Sonic]

i'm thinking of pushing for a late return. machine has so much downtime due to crashes, freezes, audio issues, external display issues, audio output shielding problem, and the constant loud fan noise. then i'm also in the camp that can't deal with either the new keyboard or especially the touch bar. which i have switched to just the basic functions displayed all the time but still end up hitting by mistake all the time.

since there is no suitable mac pro, if i go this route, it will most likely be towards a windows desktop. i will never get an imac, it doesn't suit me as i like to have a single screen with lots of inputs. then maybe i'll plump for a bottom end model for the road. i'm such a die hard and have done everything to avoid this, but i can't get any decent game development or music done on it as it stands.

given that i went for 32/i9/2tb in the hope of using it as home + road solution, it's probably the worst investment i've ever made tbh. it's great for light browsing, and who knows, perhaps it is good for video production, but for the two things i rely on it for, it's proven to be unreliable. many of these issues can be fixed in software, but it's the fan noise that is pushing me over the edge. it's too loud, too often to make for a comfortable environment when making anything but the lightest content. there's an instant solidity when switching back over to my retina 2012, it feels like a machine made by a different company.

 

[FocusAndEarnIt]

This thread has inspired me to keep a closer eye on my 15" MacBook Pro 2018's 2.2 GHz temperatures. However, I'm not sure which sensor to set Macs Fan Control to monitor. CPU cores? CPU PECI? CPU Proximity? @maflynn - any thoughts?

Does anyone use Macs Fan Control to keep things cooler rather than quieter, sorta like @lisag mentioned? Wondering what temperature I should set it at to get it start / max temp settings in this app. It's default had it 39-49 ºC, but that seems too low to me. Let me know your guys thoughts.

 

[macintoshmac]

When it comes to how hot it is, all are set to run close to 100C, Apple prioritizes noise above all for some reason, with very laggy fan response, so every single one, whether 2.2 or 2.9, will be warm/hot when running similar software. For now you can still set the fans to follow your own curve if you want it to be cooler, and the fan noise, even at 100% is ok, compared to the jet blasts coming from comparable windows laptops.

Oh yes, of course, I am not new to MacBooks, have a 2011 15" and appreciate how the noise is on that even when full. I understand that 2012 redesigned the fan to be quieter, and maybe the 2016 onwards only added to it. So noise is not an issue at all.

What I was really very surprised with was how the laptop was doing NOTHING (it was running an Apple logo that's it) and the entire machine was very warm to touch. Entire machine - palm rests, strip above touch bar, and I lifted it, the whole bottom was warm.

My 2011 15" never got its palm rests so warm ever, only the bottom and the strip above the keys where now the touch bar rests. I understand the machine might be 'able' to take the heat, but it sure seems like it is pushing the boundaries on heat dissipation. This was one store, first experience, I will see about another store and another experience.

 

[Queen6]

This thread has inspired me to keep a closer eye on my 15" MacBook Pro 2018's 2.2 GHz temperatures. However, I'm not sure which sensor to set Macs Fan Control to monitor. CPU cores? CPU PECI? CPU Proximity? @maflynn - any thoughts?

Does anyone use Macs Fan Control to keep things cooler rather than quieter, sorta like @lisag mentioned? Wondering what temperature I should set it at to get it start / max temp settings in this app. It's default had it 39-49 ºC, but that seems too low to me. Let me know your guys thoughts.

Your far better off with the fans running at a faster base RPM, say 3K - 4K than a very aggressive profile, I used to increase the base RPM to just below the point of being audible. I would opt for setting the fans off CPU Proximity as the temperature is more stable. CPU Core temp can and does fluctuate violently and result in the fans ramping up & down which is generally more noticeable.

I'd set the max at around 85C/90C and you want the fans to start slowly spooling up around 60C. I would also elevate the rear of the notebook as this prevents the heat being reflected back to the base of the notebook and helps cooling slightly due to the convection effect.

Being on the go a lot I use these ORICO risers

nb. no affiliation, just a useful product.

Q-6

 

[Thysanoptera]

What I was really very surprised with was how the laptop was doing NOTHING (it was running an Apple logo that's it) and the entire machine was very warm to touch. Entire machine - palm rests, strip above touch bar, and I lifted it, the whole bottom was warm.

Next time see what's the CPU utilization, maybe something is running in the background. I notice a number of users complaining about i9 especially, high temps and fan speeds at low CPU utilization, not so many about 2.2/555x which I have and experience no issues whatsoever. Anecdotally, when I gave the retina 2012 to my wife I placed an icon on her Desktop - ItGetsHot.sh. Something was spawning taking almost 100% of CPU, it was easier for me to kill it for now rather than to reinstall the system, which I eventually did anyway.

 

[doitdada]

This thread has inspired me to keep a closer eye on my 15" MacBook Pro 2018's 2.2 GHz temperatures. However, I'm not sure which sensor to set Macs Fan Control to monitor. CPU cores? CPU PECI? CPU Proximity? @maflynn - any thoughts?

Does anyone use Macs Fan Control to keep things cooler rather than quieter, sorta like @lisag mentioned? Wondering what temperature I should set it at to get it start / max temp settings in this app. It's default had it 39-49 ºC, but that seems too low to me. Let me know your guys thoughts.

My experience is that 40 celsius without a display is the norm, but connected to a external display and using the Radeon 5xx it will stay around 60-70 celsius.

 

[macintoshmac]

Next time see what's the CPU utilization, maybe something is running in the background. I notice a number of users complaining about i9 especially, high temps and fan speeds at low CPU utilization, not so many about 2.2/555x which I have and experience no issues whatsoever. Anecdotally, when I gave the retina 2012 to my wife I placed an icon on her Desktop - ItGetsHot.sh. Something was spawning taking almost 100% of CPU, it was easier for me to kill it for now rather than to reinstall the system, which I eventually did anyway.

Ah, I did check CPU utilisation and even memory to see. But there was nothing out of the ordinary. I have no clue why that machine was so warm like it was working out or something.

 

[ls1dreams]

The macbook is probably going to be stuck with thermal problems until intel moves to 10nm or Apple goes with a different/bigger chassis?

Which is more likely? Lol. At this point neither seem like they will ever happen.

 

[buran-energia]

The macbook is probably going to be stuck with thermal problems until intel moves to 10nm or Apple goes with a different/bigger chassis?

Or Apple decides to switch to their ARM cpus.

 

[Qaulity]

i'm thinking of pushing for a late return. machine has so much downtime due to crashes, freezes, audio issues, external display issues, audio output shielding problem, and the constant loud fan noise. then i'm also in the camp that can't deal with either the new keyboard or especially the touch bar. which i have switched to just the basic functions displayed all the time but still end up hitting by mistake all the time.

since there is no suitable mac pro, if i go this route, it will most likely be towards a windows desktop. i will never get an imac, it doesn't suit me as i like to have a single screen with lots of inputs. then maybe i'll plump for a bottom end model for the road. i'm such a die hard and have done everything to avoid this, but i can't get any decent game development or music done on it as it stands.

given that i went for 32/i9/2tb in the hope of using it as home + road solution, it's probably the worst investment i've ever made tbh. it's great for light browsing, and who knows, perhaps it is good for video production, but for the two things i rely on it for, it's proven to be unreliable. many of these issues can be fixed in software, but it's the fan noise that is pushing me over the edge. it's too loud, too often to make for a comfortable environment when making anything but the lightest content. there's an instant solidity when switching back over to my retina 2012, it feels like a machine made by a different company.

This is the same spec I got for the exact same reason. The first one had a non-functional microphone, second had a line of dead pixels, and my current one has a popping sound when I move the lid. Hopefully the 4th one will be perfect. If it's not perfect I'm not sure if I'll just call it quits, I could build a hackintosh and pick up an ultraportable for less than half the cost of this machine. I haven't even had one machine long enough to break it in so to speak. I don't set up my bootcamp partitions fully and I barely move past my late July time machine backup for not wanting to put all the effort into a computer I'm not keeping. It has definitely slowed me down and kept me from plowing through some projects since I'm so uncertain with this machine. Additionally if Apple is switching over their computers to ARM in 2020 is it really worth keeping with the ecosystem knowing they'll depreciate their intel machines sooner rather than later? ugh...

 

[Queen6]

Or Apple decides to switch to their ARM cpus.

iPads with keyboards, even better...

Q-6