Linux Discussion

[ClaraStahlbaum]

While the idea of leasing an Imac or another Apple product is somewhat appealing to me, the notion of not directly owning what I use may not sit entirely right with me. I haven't done a deep dive into Linux computers yet and what is really good out there these days, so I'm hoping to gather some information here about it.

 

[josehill]

you can also make the case that Linux’s low overhead means it can run well on significantly slower processors and with much less RAM

Exactly. I have a 12 year old budget Dell laptop (1.7 GHz Pentium 3558U, Haswell graphics, upgraded to 8 GB RAM and an SSD). It's dual booting into Windows 10 and whatever flavor of Linux I feel like experimenting with. Currently, that's a default installation of Linux Mint 22.3 Cinnamon.

The Windows partition is actually the original Windows 8 installation, updated through the years to the current Windows 10 ESU. It takes at least five minutes to boot and become fully interactive, with the fans blowing hard the whole time. Most of that startup time seems to be taken up by Dropbox syncing, Microsoft anti-malware scans, and various apps auto-updating. I'll get around soon to doing a clean install of Windows 10. Based on how the system currently performs once it settles down, I suspect will be usable, but only barely so.

In contrast, the Linux partition boots to a fully usable state in around 30-45 seconds. Compared to a new computer, it's obviously not fast, but Firefox launches within two or three seconds of clicking on it, and you can watch full screen 720p YouTube videos without any glitches. It's a completely different, much more satisfying experience than the Windows experience on that machine, and I am not a Windows hater.

 

[maflynn]

The point is that Microsoft is starting to reverse what gamers were complaining about and moving back. I do think the SteamBox is dead in the water, and SteamOS being touted as the saviour of gaming is not going to happen either. Linux in other aspects of computing would grow exponentially if software builders would take it more seriously, but I think the revenues are not there to do it. Most Linux users want free software. I, for one, would pay for affinity etc on Linux if I could.

Microsoft is continuing to lose ground in steam, with July's numbers now in the books, we're largely seeing a trend where window's marketshare (from the Steam monthly hardware survey) is eroding. While 93.67% is still largely a monopoly, we do see that macOS and Linux are largely on the upward trend.

As for the Steam Machine being dead in the water - that may be a bit premature. It seems that its quite popular. Now I'll be the first to admit, that I thought the price point of this was the kiss of death and it was going to flop, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I was wrong on this to be sure.

Valve Reportedly Sells 12-15K Steam Machine Units Per Week

it turns out that Valve's sales data have reportedly been good. Some investigative journalism led to an estimate that Valve is selling anywhere from 12,000 to 15,000 Steam Machine units per week

 

[boswald]

Microsoft is continuing to lose ground in steam, with July's numbers now in the books, we're largely seeing a trend where window's marketshare (from the Steam monthly hardware survey) is eroding. While 93.67% is still largely a monopoly, we do see that macOS and Linux are largely on the upward trend.
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As for the Steam Machine being dead in the water - that may be a bit premature. It seems that its quite popular. Now I'll be the first to admit, that I thought the price point of this was the kiss of death and it was going to flop, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I was wrong on this to be sure.

Valve Reportedly Sells 12-15K Steam Machine Units Per Week

I, for one, would love to see Windows dethroned due to their hubris and negligence. They've coasted for decades, so now it's long-past time for some fresh blood to take over. Linux, I hope, but of course Apple as well. Anyone but MS, really.

 

[boswald]

I appreciate your enthusiasm.

Dell's acumen as a service company sets a large hurdle. I am compelledget to use one at work.

The nine (used ones) I personally own work, but are incredibly difficult to modify. They were created for temporal use-cases, and their use-by dates are long gone. I'm planning to donate them to individuals who don't have comp. resources.

That's very kind of you. Do them an even bigger favor and strip Windows off of them! (I kid... sorta.)

 

[splifingate]

That's very kind of you. Do them an even bigger favor and strip Windows off of them! (I kid... sorta.)

Ha! It could be an option, as long as I know the receiver doesn't have my phone# 😉

 

[throAU]

As for the Steam Machine being dead in the water - that may be a bit premature. It seems that its quite popular. Now I'll be the first to admit, that I thought the price point of this was the kiss of death and it was going to flop, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I was wrong on this to be sure.

Valve Reportedly Sells 12-15K Steam Machine Units Per Week

Steam machine is fine. The only people complaining about it are vocal YouTubers with an agenda for getting clicks.

For normal people, it's a low effort option to get into PC gaming that *just works* - and whilst it's not console cheap, neither are the consoles moving forward. Just wait for the cost of the PS6, it's going to be more than this. By a lot. PS5 is being sold at a significant loss at this point, but it has a captive market so Sony can afford that to sell content.

 

[Steve Adams]

Steam machine is fine. The only people complaining about it are vocal YouTubers with an agenda for getting clicks.

For normal people, it's a low effort option to get into PC gaming that *just works* - and whilst it's not console cheap, neither are the consoles moving forward. Just wait for the cost of the PS6, it's going to be more than this. By a lot. PS5 is being sold at a significant loss at this point, but it has a captive market so Sony can afford that to sell content.

Exactly. The Steam machine reviews are silly. They build a computer to compare and if the steam gets 1 FPS less they loose their collective minds. Steam never once said it was going to be the fastest, most powerful system ever, they said it will be able to play any game on steam adequately for most every player.

 

[throAU]

Exactly. The Steam machine reviews are silly. They build a computer to compare and if the steam gets 1 FPS less they loose their collective minds. Steam never once said it was going to be the fastest, most powerful system ever, they said it will be able to play any game on steam adequately for most every player.

The PCs they built don't even work as well anyway.

They're typically

• more expensive
• larger
• require careful research to get parts that fit
• require a few hours of assembly
• can't be powered on/off along with the other HDMI devices in your home theatre setup via HDMI-CEC

And run hot and loud anyway.

Sure if your only objective is "max fps per dollar" then other "better" alternatives exist.

But vs. say, a ps5 - the steam machine is a linux box. you can run whatever on it. You can run retro games on it. You can do work on it.

And vs. other small form factor linux builds - its only worse if you consider your time free, the size advantage meaningless and the HDMI-CEC useless.

Most people want those things and the few dollars you'd save building your own aren't worth what you give up outside of the very specific max fps per dollar niche.

 

[Steve Adams]

The PCs they built don't even work as well anyway.

They're typically

• more expensive
• larger
• require careful research to get parts that fit
• require a few hours of assembly
• can't be powered on/off along with the other HDMI devices in your home theatre setup via HDMI-CEC

And run hot and loud anyway.

Sure if your only objective is "max fps per dollar" then other "better" alternatives exist.

But vs. say, a ps5 - the steam machine is a linux box. you can run whatever on it. You can run retro games on it. You can do work on it.

And vs. other small form factor linux builds - its only worse if you consider your time free, the size advantage meaningless and the HDMI-CEC useless.

Most people want those things and the few dollars you'd save building your own aren't worth what you give up outside of the very specific max fps per dollar niche.

Correct. That's all the Youtubers are worried about max FPS. Nothing else. They only do "benchmarks" on Max FPS.

 

[lowendlinux]

The PCs they built don't even work as well anyway.

They're typically

• more expensive
• larger
• require careful research to get parts that fit
• require a few hours of assembly
• can't be powered on/off along with the other HDMI devices in your home theatre setup via HDMI-CEC

And run hot and loud anyway.

Sure if your only objective is "max fps per dollar" then other "better" alternatives exist.

But vs. say, a ps5 - the steam machine is a linux box. you can run whatever on it. You can run retro games on it. You can do work on it.

And vs. other small form factor linux builds - its only worse if you consider your time free, the size advantage meaningless and the HDMI-CEC useless.

Most people want those things and the few dollars you'd save building your own aren't worth what you give up outside of the very specific max fps per dollar niche.

From what I've seen from the steam box, I really can build something faster and cooler for about the same money if I volunteer my time.

If I were to buy a Steam its to prove that there is a large enough market for Valve to continue at a minimum its Linux software development.

 

[maflynn]

I really can build something faster and cooler for about the same money if I volunteer my time.

But that generally is the case for any pre-built PC. Doesn't matter if we're talking about Dell, Lenovo, NZXT, etc. You can always build something better, cheaper and using superior parts.

Where the Steam Machine seems to excel at, is ease. No need to build a pc, no need to worry about windows, its basically like a console but access to your PC games.

Like I said, I didn't think at the price point they were selling the steam machines for, it would be successful, but It seems to have struck a chord. I also think Value's SteamOS is a selling point, you get all that you need a non of the extra crap that makes windows a headache. It also doesn't have any of the negatives associated with Linux, so its basically the best of both worlds