Lion Exposé, Solution for "All Windows"?

[3282868]

Anyone discover a work around for "Mission Controls" lack of "All Windows" in Lion?

As an OS X developer I've filed a bug report on this issue (as have many) and Apple engineers recognize it as an open case. Whether that means they will do anything about it is another matter.

 

[Krazy Bill]

Anyone discover a work around for "Mission Controls" lack of "All Windows" in Lion?

Yes. It's called the 10.6.8 patch.

I reverted back a few months ago. While I like a lot of the Lion features I just couldn't work without good old Spaces and Expose' in Snow Leopard.

I just can't wrap my head around around MC. Some of us old dogs need some help making the "transition".

 

[3282868]

Yes. It's called the 10.6.8 patch.

I reverted back a few months ago. While I like a lot of the Lion features I just couldn't work without good old Spaces and Expose' in Snow Leopard.

I just can't wrap my head around around MC. Some of us old dogs need some help making the "transition".

lol Love it. I have "Snow Leopard" on another SATA in my Mac Pro, but the lack of full iCloud integration is keeping me on Lion. "Mission Control" is a mess, including the grouping of application windows making it difficult in getting to a buried Safari page or document. Don't get me started on the iOS style "Spaces," I've had clients who are college Professors that used 10.6 "Spaces" for setting up presentations with 9+ grids. Having the desktop number in the menubar and assigning desktops was much better than having to swipe through numerous desktops in 10.7. I read a solution in creating desktop wallpapers with numbers to indicate which desktop you are in, however for this client who teaches art, it doesn't help when the projection covers the entire desktop. Oh well. We've filed as many bug reports as we can, but Apple doesn't seem to be concerned with this matter. Here's hoping a third party can break the frameworks and implement some customization of "Mission Control" for these much requested 10.6 "features."

 

[Krazy Bill]

Here's hoping a third party can break the frameworks and implement some customization of "Mission Control" for these much requested 10.6 "features."

That's what I said when Lion was released. But that was in July and still nothing.

I fear our pleas for a suitable replacement to "Missing Control" has fallen on deaf ears my friend. Apple is just waiting for us complainers to whither away and die. They certainly have the clock on their side (as well as the cash ).

 

[0000757]

Yes. It's called the 10.6.8 patch.

This isn't helpful at all. What about the people (like me) who can't downgrade to Snow Leopard?

 

[Krazy Bill]

This isn't helpful at all. What about the people (like me) who can't downgrade to Snow Leopard?

You're screwed.

Really. Helpful or not, what do you want me to say? I can't suggest something that doesn't exist.

While there's a plethora of window management apps out there... nothing exists that brings back the Spaces/Expose functionality we had in Snow Leopard. I know... I've looked. (Queue the legions of iLion fans who never used spaces to chime in here extolling the virtues of MC).

I also think we'll never see a 3rd party app that will fill this void because of Apple's pending Sandboxing limitations for developers.

Sux to be us.

 

[FSMBP]

I hope you all are going to www.apple.com/feedback and saying something like "Mission Control is too confusing" and explain to them that is disorientating for new users (even though some of us have been Mac users for decades).

They may listen. But probably not. Apple is weird - why on earth did they shrink the "Stop-Light" buttons on windows...

 

[theSeb]

Anyone discover a work around for "Mission Controls" lack of "All Windows" in Lion?

As an OS X developer I've filed a bug report on this issue (as have many) and Apple engineers recognize it as an open case. Whether that means they will do anything about it is another matter.

I don't want to sound like an apologist, but I don't miss that feature at all, especially since I normally have far too many windows/apps open and "Expose All Windows" was not a useful solution for me.

Ctrl + Up , then control + left or right shows me everything that I need. Alt + two finger swipe on a group of windows from the one application, then further exposes the multiple windows in a more clear way.

I am not sure how SL's All Windows helps me to locate a particular window any quicker.

Or I can command tab to the application (I know which application the window I am looking for is open in) and then whilst holding command I can tap the down arrow to show me all of the open windows for that app.

 

[Krazy Bill]

I am not sure how SL's All Windows helps me to locate a particular window any quicker.

First off... in SL you get to see minimized windows without another swipe. Next, you can actually select that window by using the ever-popular arrow keys + ENTER. With Lion, once you're in MC your keyboard is hosed. It simply won't work and you are forced to use the trackpad. Sure, you can just CMB+TAB through your applications but then what's the point of MC?

Also, for lazy asses like me who like to just lay back and pick and choose my windows... I set up one hot corner for Spaces and another for Expose. A "flick"to each corner shows me *every* window in *every* space I have open and all of them are just a click away.

In SL, you can cycle through Windows with CMB+Tilde'. This won't work with full screen apps in Lion.

The coder for Mission Control was too mouse-happy. It's a concept that has merit for simple tasks but falls way too short for power users.

Or I can command tab to the application

But like I said... what's the point of MC if the good old Application Switcher that's been around for ages is better?

 

[theSeb]

First off... in SL you get to see minimized windows without another swipe. Next, you can actually select that window by using the ever-popular arrow keys + ENTER. With Lion, once you're in MC your keyboard is hosed. It simply won't work and you are forced to use the trackpad. Sure, you can just CMB+TAB through your applications but then what's the point of MC?

Also, for lazy asses like me who like to just lay back and pick and choose my windows... I set up one hot corner for Spaces and another for Expose. A "flick"to each corner shows me *every* window in *every* space I have open and all of them are just a click away.

In SL, you can cycle through Windows with CMB+Tilde'. This won't work with full screen apps in Lion.

The coder for Mission Control was too mouse-happy. It's a concept that has merit for simple tasks but falls way too short for power users.

But like I said... what's the point of MC if the good old Application Switcher that's been around for ages is better?

MC is an implementation of Virtual desktops and not an application switcher. You can use it like an application switcher if you want.

As for using the keyboard. I use ctrl + up arrow and then left or right to go the appropriate desktop or space. I then ctrl + down (or up - it does the same thing) and then I use ctrl + f4 to cycle through all of the windows in that space. Or I just ctrl + left or right to go the previous or next space directly since I know exactly what is in what space. For example evernote, terminal and a snippet tool are in space 3, xcode is in space 4, reference is in space 5 and so forth.

I don't use full screen because it is indeed broken in many aspects. Maybe it's because I am a late switcher to OSX and have only started using OSX in 2009, but I prefer using Lion and use it to my advantages instead of trying to work against it.

 

[Krazy Bill]

I don't use full screen because it is indeed broken in many aspects.

Ditto here (when I used Lion). I never could understand why just hiding the menu bar in an app (i.e., full screen) should change the whole dynamics of my virtual way of organizing.

Why full screen apps can't stay where I put them and behave like any other app is puzzling to me.

 

[theSeb]

Ditto here (when I used Lion). I never could understand why just hiding the menu bar in an app (i.e., full screen) should change the whole dynamics of my virtual way of organizing.

Why full screen apps can't stay where I put them and behave like any other app is puzzling to me.

I use better snap tool to "maximise" the application. It's my own full screen mode.

Edit: I also don't use Launch Pad. It's just redundant. I prefer the approach of having a folder in the dock.

At the end of the day Lion let's me get on with my work. That's all I expect and want from it. I find some of the complaints about it ridiculous, but I try to stay away from the more passionate and heated "debates".

 

[KnightWRX]

At the end of the day Lion let's me get on with my work. That's all I expect and want from it. I find some of the complaints about it ridiculous, but I try to stay away from the more passionate and heated "debates".

Frankly, Lion is not "worse" or "bad", it's different. People just want whatever they were using before instead of trying to learn something new. They don't really even know if it'll end up more efficient or not because they don't give it a chance.

I'm like you, Mission Control really organized Expose/Spaces much more efficiently for me than the old Snow Leopard/Leopard way. I too found that "all windows expose" was just a big mess and didn't help anything.

I CMD-arrow to the correct space where my app is running (most of my apps are associated with a space) and use Application Expose to find windows too. If I have 2 apps within a space, I do like you CTRL-up and switch or just CMD-TAB.

Launchpad is really nothing to write home about, I haven't used it once though. But frankly, it's completely out of the way so it doesn't bother me.

Lion's new gestures also do a world of good and I find that I use my trackpad all the way on top of my Rain stand even at my desk sometimes.

It's been 6 months, you'd think people would stop polluting this forum with the same thread over and over again. We know you don't like Mission Control, send your feedback and move on.

 

[klaxamazoo]

Frankly, Lion is not "worse" or "bad", it's different. People just want whatever they were using before instead of trying to learn something new. They don't really even know if it'll end up more efficient or not because they don't give it a chance.

You are assuming that the people that don't like MC didn't try it. I've tried it and it is annoying every time, just like the new Address Book is annoying every time I use it.

And stating opinion is not "pollution," that is what the internet is for. Just because you don't agree with our view does not mean we don't have the privilege to express it. The internet isn't fascist yet, so if you don't like reading about MC problems then don't read these threads because you know that this is a complaining thread.

 

[3282868]

F
It's been 6 months, you'd think people would stop polluting this forum with the same thread over and over again. We know you don't like Mission Control, send your feedback and move on.

My post wasn't intent to "pollute" and as a developer I have been using Lion since DP1. My intent was/is to hopefully learn of a method in bringing a feature many OS X users need. Certainly you are entitled to your opinion, and I think it's great that "Mission Control" works well for you. However, it doesn't work well for some and that is not due to any "learning curve" but rather the elimination of features that truly assisted workflows. "Spaces" as an iOS style format is unintuitive for many reasons I am certain have been discussed, and Expose simply needs "All Windows." Two simple options that could make Lion much more user friendly for some.

 

[Krazy Bill]

I use better snap tool to "maximise" the application. It's my own full screen mode.

In Lion I used "Cinch". It does the same thing. For keyboard full-window-sizing I use "RightZoom".

Edit: I also don't use Launch Pad. It's just redundant. I prefer the approach of having a folder in the dock.

Yep. No Launch Pad for me either. (But have other names for it which aren't as diplomatic as your term. ). Spot Light does the trick for me.

At the end of the day Lion let's me get on with my work. That's all I expect and want from it. I find some of the complaints about it ridiculous, but I try to stay away from the more passionate and heated "debates".

I used it for 5 months but just couldn't adapt my old "spaces" workflow. This wasn't a knee-jerk reaction either. I really tried.

Could I live with Lion? Sure, But I just don't have to right now.

 

[Jolly Jimmy]

Apple didn't listen when people complained about the new exposé in 10.6 (there were some really really heavy threads on here IIRC). I don't think this time will be any different unfortunately.

 

[dba415]

Mission Control and lack of Expose for all windows is the reason I reverted back to snow leopard.

 

[dyn]

Yes. It's called the 10.6.8 patch.

No it is not. I've been using OS X from 10.4 till the newest 10.7.2 and one thing Expose was never able to do was displaying all windows. If I fired up all my apps I had to use either the dock or cmd-tab to get to some of them because they simply do not show up in the Expose overview. When switching from my 15" MBP display to my much bigger 30" display it showed more of the apps but some of them were still missing. The current way of doing it is by grouping windows per app (which btw should be an option you can disable in sysprefs). This way you can get more windows into the overview thus actually having the ability of showing all windows. I think that's why the Apple devs consider it as an open issue. Let's hope that they'll get it sorted because for me the not showing all windows thing in OS X is the main reason why I use cmd-tab much more than Expose/Mission Control. I can actually get to all the apps, not just a selection of what fits on screen.

 

[InuNacho]

Apple didn't listen when people complained about the new exposé in 10.6 (there were some really really heavy threads on here IIRC). I don't think this time will be any different unfortunately.

I actually liked the Expose switch in 10.6, it's nice to see the minimized stuff in the dock.

Honestly I can't see using a Mac or any computer without Expose. I don't know how many times I've use Windows computers and instinctively sent the mouse into the bottom left corner or hit one of the F9-F12 keys.

 

[3282868]

No it is not. I've been using OS X from 10.4 till the newest 10.7.2 and one thing Expose was never able to do was displaying all windows.

10.6 Expose has "All Windows" (Safari, Mail, iCal, etc were not grouped together/over-lapped as in "Mission Control" making it easier to find a buried Safari page if more than one was open, and minimized windows in the Dock were also displayed):

 

[Phechs]

one of the first solutions, for the virtualdesktop missing functionality is Change Space from pennysmalls
http://pennysmalls.com/change-space-grows-up

Its open source, and decent, for now, but I would pay for a more robust solution, bringing SL espose & spaces functionality into iLion.

 

[KnightWRX]

10.6 Expose has "All Windows" (Safari, Mail, iCal, etc were not grouped together/over-lapped as in "Mission Control" making it easier to find a buried Safari page if more than one was open, and minimized windows in the Dock were also displayed)

Wait, you find that easier to find a Safari page ? I find it much easier to either Mission Control and switch to Chrome or CMD-TAB to chrome and then use App Expose.

All Windows Expose is a big mess that requires too much visual scanning to find anything. The more windows, the less effective it becomes.

 

[Simplicated]

Wait, you find that easier to find a Safari page ? I find it much easier to either Mission Control and switch to Chrome or CMD-TAB to chrome and then use App Expose.

All Windows Expose is a big mess that requires too much visual scanning to find anything. The more windows, the less effective it becomes.

It has always been possible to switch to Chrome with Expose or Cmd-Tab. The additional step to use App Expose just demonstrates how slow Mission Control is.

 

[3282868]

Wait, you find that easier to find a Safari page ? I find it much easier to either Mission Control and switch to Chrome or CMD-TAB to chrome and then use App Expose.

All Windows Expose is a big mess that requires too much visual scanning to find anything. The more windows, the less effective it becomes.

Not at all . It was much easier, I simply shot down to the lower left hot corner, saw all the windows I had opened which were labeled and easy to read, then select the Safari page I needed as it wasn't buried behind numerous other Safari pages, and done. Perhaps the screen real estate using dual displays with my Mac Pro facilitates "All Windows" Expose in addition I'm a multi-tasking fiend. I know exactly what windows I have open at all times so I don't have to dig through to remember which window in which app I need to access.

You mentioned earlier about being tired of the threads such as these, I can understand especially as "Mission Control" works well for you. When I stated I was seeking reasonable solutions, I found one yesterday for "Spaces" called "Change Space." (Thanks to Phechs - and others on MacRumors - for posting this as well, just realized it so apologies for reposting) Still a work in progress, it is almost exactly like the grid spaces of "Leopard" and "Snow Leopard" and even has a menu bar indicator of your current desktop space. I highly recommend any one needing 10.5/.6 "Spaces" to get this open source app, I even donated to help the developer(s) polish it. So in the end, the threads really aren't meaning to complain or whine as some have suggested (well, not mine at least ), but to help each other with solutions to these issues we would like to see remedied.

PS Also got color icons back for my Finder and iTunes sidebars through these forums last year, so posting threads such as these does help others