Lion over Windows?

Discussion in 'Mac OS X Lion (10.7)' started by Blues003, Aug 14, 2011.

  1. Blues003 macrumors 6502

    Apr 18, 2010

    I am a Windows 7 user thinking about buying its first Mac in a few months. I was aiming at the base 13'' MBP. However, after doing some more research, I came across another laptop, by Asus, which not only was 350€ cheaper, but also better spec-wise: same RAM and CPU as the MBP 13'', a dedicated GeForce GT520M, 500GB of HDD (opposed to 320€), and slightly lighter overlal (300g).

    As such, it would not make much sense to pay extra 350€ and compromise on a dedicated GPU/120GB of space/weight, in order to get a Superdrive that I do not use, and a number of other features that I'd consider important details, but not game-breaking (unibody design, backlit keyboard, bigger trackpad).

    The other point that differentiates the two is the OS. I have heard a lot about how OS X is great and all, but to be honest, most of what I heard sounded like parroting, and not like actually knowledgeable claims. I would, as such, like to know if you think OS X would make the price difference worth it, and if that is the case, why.


  2. digger1985 macrumors newbie

    Aug 8, 2011
    Ask yourself this.

    Could you live without "Save As"?
    Could you live without not being able to use the volume mixer to independently control volume for different applications?
    Could you live without have control over DPI settings to adjust system wide text size?
    Could you live without Aero Snap.

    And the final one,
    Are you going to end up installing Windows on your Mac anyway?
  3. Blues003 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Apr 18, 2010
    Considering the MBP 13'' is more expensive than the Asus, I'm actually looking for reasons to choose OS X over Windows, not the other way around.

    I could live without any of those. Also, I'd probably install Windows anyway to check that Office files did not de-format when I saved them on OS X.
  4. srf4real macrumors 68040


    Jul 25, 2006
    paradise beach FL
    Windows 7 is a decent operating system. I have to wonder why you are pondering switching, if you are looking for reasons to do so in here. Is it just the 'cool factor'? That's over; all teh cool people already got macs years ago. Now it's just trendy.:p

    If I had to list the things about mac that I'm not willing to give up,

    1. quality harware in my experience, nothing ever breaks.
    2. reliable and intuitive operating system (jury still out on Lion)
    3. useful and easy to use apps installed right out of the box
    4. no virus software subscription
    5. sleek professional ergonomics (I hate black plastic)

    You can get #1 and #5 out of a Windows pc as well, but it will cost you as much or more than an apple.
  5. digger1985 macrumors newbie

    Aug 8, 2011
    Regarding point #3, MS can't do what Apple does because of anti-trust concerns. Hell when MS wanted to build in PDF export support out of box in Office, Adobe made a fuss and MS had to leave it as a downloadble plug in.

    As for #4, there is MSE provided for free by MS (which should have been built in, but again anti-virus vendors kick up a fuss).

    Both OS X and W7 are equally as good as each other.
  6. srf4real macrumors 68040


    Jul 25, 2006
    paradise beach FL
    Let me change #4;:p

    4. No virus software
  7. Blues003 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Apr 18, 2010
    I am no go-because-it's-cool guy. I was thinking of going OS X because I heard it was an intuitive, safe OS, with a lot of potential for music editing - something I intend to do. I also read it was far more optimized for the hardware - which meant a worse hardware could perform better than expected. I also wanted something different, and OS X looked interesting when I saw people operating with it. I also like how MBPs offer the option to run both OS X and Windows, when PCs typically don't (hackintoshing is quite a PITA.)
  8. srf4real macrumors 68040


    Jul 25, 2006
    paradise beach FL
    All good things to consider. I do reccommend that you get at least a mac that has the i7 quad chip if you can afford it. You will be happy with it for a lot longer. The 2011 15" MBP is $500 more, yes. By far a better performer than the base 13". Are you concerned with being underpowered in four years and needing a new mac? If you plan on upgrading later on and earlier than I do it wouldn't matter though.. and you could "get your feet wet" for a steal relatively speaking on the 13" MBP.

    One of the reasons I don't look at macs as expensive is because I use the same ones for 5-7 years and they pay for themselves with the added efficiency and reliable performance. You won't see a ten year old Windows machine still running unless it's been visited by six different doctors with six different opinions.

    I have two twelve year old macs that run like teh day I bought them, no added investment other than ram.
  9. kalsta, Aug 14, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011

    kalsta macrumors 68000


    May 17, 2010
    What are you talking about? Is Windows 7 'Save As' better than Mac OS X 'Save As'?

    *Edit: Ah, let me guess… You're referring to Lion's fangled new document management features? I haven't installed Lion yet, so I can't comment on this… but it sounds great in theory. I'd have thought this was a plus for Lion.

    Oh my, how have I been able to live without this? Possibly because sound-based apps tend to have their own volume control, and system-wide volume is as easy as pressing the volume-up key on a Mac keyboard.

    I'll be honest… I've not spent much time with Windows 7, so I can't do a side-by-side feature comparison for you. But over the years, I've had to use different versions of Windows at different times (for testing websites, or because I'm using someone else's PC), and for me the experience is one of many, many little annoyances that grate on my nerves over time, and I just can't wait to get back to the Mac.

    Part of that experience is because I'm used to the Mac. For people who are used to Windows, they can have something of the reverse experience when switching to a Mac for the first time. On the other hand, I know plenty of people who have switched from Windows to Mac and never looked back. I can't say I can think of anyone I know personally who has done the reverse.

    At the end of the day, it's a personal thing, and the only way you can really know is to force yourself to learn the ins and outs of Mac OS X, and spend a bit of time with it. A few days will probably tell you what you want to know. Either you'll be wishing you were back in Windows… or you'll be heading for your nearest Apple Store.
  10. r0k macrumors 68040


    Mar 3, 2008
    The 300gbp difference is for the OS and for build quality. To me it is worth it on both accounts. There are some things that make osx better. I've been a unix user since before Windows 1. When windows came out our company started switching to it. Now everybody is on xp or 7 and there are only a handful of unix boxes left.

    Meanwhile at home I used Linux as much or more than Windows. I was impressed with the way I could take a Linux drive and toss it in another system and it would just work. If I tried that with NT, 2000 or XP I was looking at blue screens. When I got a Mac, at first I still had Windows boxes and Linux boxes. Now they are all gone with the exception of 1 Linux box I keep around as a web server. Everything I learned over the years on various versions of Unix still works on OSX but you know what? The gui really is good enough in osx that it serves all my needs.

    Yesterday I found out that Apple "took away" the ftp server in Lion. I need it for my scan to ftp scanner and it only took a few minutes to get it back. This is one of the rare examples where I have used terminal and sudo since switching to Mac. OSX serves the newbie and the power user equally well.
  11. maflynn Moderator


    Staff Member

    May 3, 2009
    I'd go with the platform that best suits your needs.

    Windows 7 is Microsoft's best OS to date. From rumors win8 looks to be a great update with many features, possibility exceeding that of Lion

    You need to ask yourself if the apps you use are available on the mac, whether the options that Lion removes from users is important. "Save as" for me is very important to me.

    So far Lion appears to be quite buggy so you may want to want until 10.7.1 or 10.7.2 to really judge the OS's worth and stability. With that said, Lion is Apple's best selling OS in history.

    Am I making a case for windows 7, no but rather making a case that Lion needs to smooth out some of its rough spots.

    I think the design and quality of a mac exceed that of many other PC makers, the integration of apple software and hardware is excellent. OSX in general is a better OS then windows, more solid, less malware - a better manager of its resources. Lion specifically is a tad buggy though
  12. Blues003, Aug 14, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011

    Blues003 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Apr 18, 2010
    I get your point, but unfortunately my maximum budget really is 1200€. As such, the best Mac laptop (and I do want a laptop; I want to carry it to faculty almost-daily) I can afford is a MBP 13''. Besides, I feel that my money would be better spent if instead of paying for the i5-to-i7 transition, I invested on a SSD instead. I doubt that on real-life situations, I'd get my money's worth out of an i7 in comparison to an i5.

    My current laptop lasted 4 years and it still runs... strugglingly, but it does. I have no fear of keeping a laptop for 8 years as long as it fits my needs (check them a little below on my reply;) )

    Thanks for your input. Unfortunately, I have no one who would be willing to lend me a Mac (I probably wouldn't lend a Mac of mine either :p) to try it out. I have watched Apple's tutorials and saw a lot of youtube vids / read reviews. It looks insanely appealing. But watching can only get me so far... which is exactly why I created this topic: to ask for an in-depth, knowledgeable opinion on why I would benefit more from Lion in comparison to Windows. I use it from time to time on my friends' laptop, but only in 5-minute bursts. It really doesn't allow me to have what I'd call a solid position on the matter.

    Thanks for your contribution. :D

    Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I'm not such a power-user. I am a med-student, which means that my working software can be limited to Office and SPSS. On my free time, I browse the web, chat, listen to music, watch videos, and sometimes emulate GBA/Nintendo DS/PSX/PS2 if the laptop will alow it (the NVidea 320m MBP did).

    I intend to start music editing (I studied music for 10+ years; it's one of the reasons the Mac is on the top of my decision table). I also intend to learn how to use Photoshop, and perhaps even learn how to use Linux: just for the fun of trying it out. Perhaps this list of needs and wants can help someone help me. :p

    For discussion's sake, let us go back to Snow Leopard vs Windows 7. How do you feel about that confrontation? Also, what features were you referring to when you mentioned Windows 8?

    Thanks to everyone for your input! :D
  13. DockMac macrumors regular

    Dec 22, 2008

    I'd say go with Mac.

    Depending on who and where you learn from, they may be Mac or Windows friendly, but a Mac can do both. Most of the music folks I know use Mac.

    Do you know what software you want to use to make music? The big ones out there are ProTools, Logic (Apple), and some others. If you know for sure which software you want to use to make music, then that may make the decision easier. If you are ambivalent, go with the Mac.
  14. res1233 macrumors 65816


    Dec 8, 2008
    Brooklyn, NY
    Macs are renowned for their reliability. If you use your computer for your job, I think it would be foolish to settle for less. Macs are not perfect as it's impossible for any computer to be, but they tend to be closer to perfection than their PC counterparts in terms of build quality. Also, OS X is a very stable OS, even with the bugs in Lion. Microsoft so far has had one good OS release: Windows 7. Till some time has passed and they've proven that they can keep dishing out quality, I think it would be foolish to invest in any Microsoft OS.
  15. sidewinder macrumors 68020


    Dec 10, 2008
    Northern California
    Windows 7 has more features than Lion. It's not features that make an OS great. You should know that. The problem with Windows 7, and it will be the same for Windows 8, is that it is built on top of an archaic code base that has more patches than base code. Of course, there is the whole Registry boat anchor as well.

    What Microsoft really needs to do is start over with a fresh code base. But they won't do that because it would allow developers and customers a chance to come up for air and evaluate alternate platforms.

  16. Blues003 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Apr 18, 2010
    I was thinking of starting with GarageBand and slowly work my way towards Logic. i was considering using a MIDI Keyboard (my budget is still not that high) in the beginning, and then slowly work my way up until I had a bigger studio. Obviously, by then, I'd also have a bigger laptop too.
  17. scottsjack macrumors 68000

    Aug 25, 2010
    Part of the answer lies in what kind of computer user you are. Mac OS X "just works" because of excellent, user friendly design but also because its apps and set ups are simple and sometimes less functional. If you're an experienced user you can do more nuts and bolts stuff on Windows 7.

    Personally I like Macs ecosystem of apps that talk to each other and transport over to an iPhone. Unfortunately Lion showed me that Apple is really heading in the no-file-system, tablet direction where even the dumbest user can function.

    If I had it to do all over again today having used Lion I would go with Windows 7. I'm switching from iCal, Address Book and Mail over to Outlook 2011 just to be on the same page as my Windows 7 machines.

    A lot of users really love Lion but some can't stand it. You're going to have to see what kind of OS you want to compute in.
  18. res1233 macrumors 65816


    Dec 8, 2008
    Brooklyn, NY
    Actually, Mac OS lets you get under the hood far more than Windows does nowadays. It used to be reverse, but thanks to the Unix underpinnings, virtually anything is possible. I will say that windows lets you do more from the GUI, but honestly, complexity should stay with the command-line due to how easy a GUI can get overcrowded.
  19. fortheloveofmac macrumors member

    Jul 28, 2011
    Lion seems so secure and aware of the user, to me. Mac in general. The finger gestures are fantastic, the autocorrect, Safari... I bought a 15 inch MBP to have it for a very long while and grow with it. So far, I've had no issues and it seems beyond user-friendly. Even the support (I had to call when I found out I could have gotten free Lion, as I started with SL for a couple of weeks. 5 minutes, super nice (I'm a sticker) and NOT from a foreign land haha. I could never understand the often rude Dell people). I have no fear of crashing or anything random/tragic like the Dell I had did twice within the first month when I had barely even used the Internet with it. Dell was a nightmare for me for no fault of my own, and after such a nightmare, I treat my MBP like gold without even thinking about it. It's excellent to have to authorize any downloads and not worry about anything freezing or taking eons to load. I think it's silly to download Windows on it, especially when most things, that I do anyway, can be converted. And Office for Mac 2011 is amazing. That save feature thing is odd to me because I use Office and it still has a save feature, so I can't comment on that. I think the machine itself is more durable and longer lasting than a PC and can handle a lot more (not wear and tear, but work), which is a main reason why I made the switch. From my experience, price means a lot, and in this case, I felt that the MBP being more than a PC meant, by review and rumor, that it would last longer and do more, and I definitely agree so far. I feel like I'd go through two more PCs before my MBP dies, and my friends that have Macs have had theirs since college or high school, so 4 to 8 years with no issues (other than repairs they brought upon themselves haha) and the ones that have gotten new ones went from MB to MBP or just thought it was time (the look changed, more power in [insert computer term here], etc) to have one to grow with in their professional/adult lives also.
  20. derbothaus macrumors 601


    Jul 17, 2010
  21. res1233 macrumors 65816


    Dec 8, 2008
    Brooklyn, NY
    Holy crap... USE PARAGRAPHS. PLEASE. What did this guy even say?
  22. QuarterSwede macrumors G3


    Oct 1, 2005
    Colorado Springs, CO
    I came here to say exactly that. When/if Microsoft finally chooses to ditch the registry I may take a look again for my personal machine. Of course, there's DLL Hell as well.
  23. munkery macrumors 68020


    Dec 18, 2006
    Mac OS X is definitely more secure than Windows.

    There is more free medical software for Macs that is actually used in the medical setting.

    more can be found...

    Given the specs shown of that ASUS, it is definitely not a business class machine at that price so it is not in the same class as a MBP.

    If it is a gaming spec machine, then battery life will be nowhere near as good.

    But, it really all depends on what you are comfortable with and what you are going to use it for.
  24. phpmaven macrumors 68040


    Jun 12, 2009
    San Clemente, CA USA
    You mention that looking at videos of OS X made it look "insanely great", that's because it is "insanely great" ;). there were a couple of comments here that Lion is buggy. That's nonsense. The vast majority of people are having no serious issues, including myself. Those that are having some problems are mostly related to upgrading from Snow Leopard, but that wouldn't be an issue with a new Mac\.

    Also, you mentioned a "bigger trackpad" at the outset. To me the trackpad on a MacBook is so much nicer and usable than on any PC that it alone is reason enough to switch. I absolutely hate the trackpads on PC laptops. I always end up using and external mouse. Once you spend a couple of days with a MacBook and it's beautiful trackpad, you will be in love.

    I'm a long time PC user who switched to Macs in 2008 and I would never go back. I have to use Windows on a daily basis to support other users and I still shake my head in disbelief that I stuck with it for so long.

    It sounds like you are talking yourself into it. I hope you do. :)
  25. Mr.C macrumors 601

    Apr 3, 2011
    London, UK.
    When someone writes a wall of text like that I just skip passed it and move on. It's too much of a headache trying to decipher what's being said. ;). :rolleyes:

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