Lion over Windows?

[QuarterSwede]

Could you live without "Save As"?

Save As still exists, it just called Duplicate in Lion. The fuss over how saving has changed in Lion is all over nothing. Lion can still save just like Snow Leopard except now it has added functionality (the best being that everything you do in apps that support resume is saved automatically. No need to Cmd+S).

 

[Blues003]

Lion seems so secure and aware of the user, to me. Mac in general. The finger gestures are fantastic, the autocorrect, Safari... I bought a 15 inch MBP to have it for a very long while and grow with it. So far, I've had no issues and it seems beyond user-friendly. Even the support (I had to call when I found out I could have gotten free Lion, as I started with SL for a couple of weeks. 5 minutes, super nice (I'm a sticker) and NOT from a foreign land haha. I could never understand the often rude Dell people). I have no fear of crashing or anything random/tragic like the Dell I had did twice within the first month when I had barely even used the Internet with it. Dell was a nightmare for me for no fault of my own, and after such a nightmare, I treat my MBP like gold without even thinking about it. It's excellent to have to authorize any downloads and not worry about anything freezing or taking eons to load. I think it's silly to download Windows on it, especially when most things, that I do anyway, can be converted. And Office for Mac 2011 is amazing. That save feature thing is odd to me because I use Office and it still has a save feature, so I can't comment on that. I think the machine itself is more durable and longer lasting than a PC and can handle a lot more (not wear and tear, but work), which is a main reason why I made the switch. From my experience, price means a lot, and in this case, I felt that the MBP being more than a PC meant, by review and rumor, that it would last longer and do more, and I definitely agree so far. I feel like I'd go through two more PCs before my MBP dies, and my friends that have Macs have had theirs since college or high school, so 4 to 8 years with no issues (other than repairs they brought upon themselves haha) and the ones that have gotten new ones went from MB to MBP or just thought it was time (the look changed, more power in [insert computer term here], etc) to have one to grow with in their professional/adult lives also.

Thanks for your input.

Mac OS X is definitely more secure than Windows.

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/13013889/

There is more free medical software for Macs that is actually used in the medical setting.

http://www.osirix-viewer.com/

http://www.ebioinformatics.org/

more can be found...

Given the specs shown of that ASUS, it is definitely not a business class machine at that price so it is not in the same class as a MBP.

If it is a gaming spec machine, then battery life will be nowhere near as good.

But, it really all depends on what you are comfortable with and what you are going to use it for.

My needs are listed above: Browsing, Video-watching, Music-LIstening, Office-working, music-editing, photoshopping, and light gaming. Regardless of what class of laptop the ASUS is or not, it's still better than the MBP 13'' when you compare it spec-for-spec.

You mention that looking at videos of OS X made it look "insanely great", that's because it is "insanely great" . there were a couple of comments here that Lion is buggy. That's nonsense. The vast majority of people are having no serious issues, including myself. Those that are having some problems are mostly related to upgrading from Snow Leopard, but that wouldn't be an issue with a new Mac\.

I do not have trouble with Lion being buggy. OS X was said to be fantastic already when it was Snow Leopard, and I'd have absolutely 0 reluctance in installing SL until Lion's bugs get all sorted out.

Also, you mentioned a "bigger trackpad" at the outset. To me the trackpad on a MacBook is so much nicer and usable than on any PC that it alone is reason enough to switch. I absolutely hate the trackpads on PC laptops. I always end up using and external mouse. Once you spend a couple of days with a MacBook and it's beautiful trackpad, you will be in love.

I'm a long time PC user who switched to Macs in 2008 and I would never go back. I have to use Windows on a daily basis to support other users and I still shake my head in disbelief that I stuck with it for so long.

It sounds like you are talking yourself into it. I hope you do.

I somewhat are. I've been more keen on taking the plunge though, considering what this laptop offers. What really impressed me about it was how it could fit in a dedicated GPU and still be cheaper!

There's also a good Sony Vaio offer on a local store, but I've had my fair share of Sony Vaio laptops (to be honest, just one: and it was enough). Awful drivers, faulty GPUs, overheating, electric shocking, refusal to give proper assistance... no more Sony Vaios for me!

 

[MartiNZ]

What are you talking about? Is Windows 7 'Save As' better than Mac OS X 'Save As'?

*Edit: Ah, let me guess… You're referring to Lion's fangled new document management features? I haven't installed Lion yet, so I can't comment on this… but it sounds great in theory. I'd have thought this was a plus for Lion.

Well there's a first time for everything. I guess it would take not having tried it to consider this in any way, shape or form a plus for Lion . It is the most dangerous and destructive 'feature' any OS has ever had. I'm only glad the MS Office apps don't support it yet and my workflows there can remain intact.

As for the general subject, I still can't work out why people try to get us of all people to convince them of what is really nothing to do with us. Apart from anything else this forum plays host to some of the most critical Mac users the Internet has to offer. You are far more likely to never want to switch ... huh I guess that's the challenge to us, try to give positives?

Okay, well it's hard because in Windows 7, most anything you don't like can be turned off: that's just not the way. Including Snap, a feature even worse than Lion's version control, of course. I think the most valid point here is that against the registry architecture. Antivirus is no longer a valid comparison, Apple just chooses to hide its efforts so that we only found out they existed when there was a threat. And it isn't Microsoft's fault, MSE can't be bundled for anti-competitive blah, right?

I dual boot on my '08 MBP, and have done since Vista hit SP1, making it a truly awesome OS and, I found, more enjoyable to use than OS X at that time. Lion is now risking that being the case again, for 7, but the native apps are what keep me maining Lion. Mail, iCal (even with butchered looks), Safari, iTunes, iChat, Preview (especially built-in PDF management!), iPhoto, etc. The complete package, as it were, lacking really only a decent MS Paint equivalent.

So it was indeed hard trying to sell OS X, and I couldn't do it entirely with a straight face, but there you go, challenge accepted!

 

[Mr.C]

there were a couple of comments here that Lion is buggy. That's nonsense. The vast majority of people are having no serious issues, including myself. Those that are having some problems are mostly related to upgrading from Snow Leopard, but that wouldn't be an issue with a new Mac.

Rubbish. There are a lot of people who are dealing with bugs myself included. This is both people with brand new Macs shipping with Lion like myself as well as those who have upgraded. Regardless Lion being buggy because of an upgrade from Snow Leopard doesn't excuse it.

Lion does have problems and when discussing my issues with a Genius at the Apple store he agreed and told me there is nothing I can do but try an install the OS which is a lot of hassle. His other option was to wait for a point update which hopefully will fix my problems.

That said I would never go back to Windows as my main OS. Having to use it at work is enough headache for me. I am planning on installing it under Bootcamp at home but that will only be used to play Windows games and for nothing else.

 

[WSR]

Save As still exists, it just called Duplicate in Lion. The fuss over how saving has changed in Lion is all over nothing. Lion can still save just like Snow Leopard except now it has added functionality (the best being that everything you do in apps that support resume is saved automatically. No need to Cmd+S).

My understanding is that SaveAs isn't just Duplicate. SaveAs is Duplicate, locate file in Finder, and finally Rename. So what use to be 1 step in SL is now 3 in Lion.

 

[maflynn]

For discussion's sake, let us go back to Snow Leopard vs Windows 7. How do you feel about that confrontation? Also, what features were you referring to when you mentioned Windows 8?

How do I feel about SL vs. Win7, instead of Lion? They're about the same info far as features stability and performance. I give win7 a slight edge thanks to features like aero peek.

 

[Blues003]

How do I feel about SL vs. Win7, instead of Lion? They're about the same info far as features stability and performance. I give win7 a slight edge thanks to features like aero peek.

I was ironically hoping you said that, so I could ask you this: what makes you use a Mac then, instead of Windows? Apple Software is usually what's considered to be the main reason for people to pay higher for lower hardware.

 

[munkery]

Regardless of what class of laptop the ASUS is or not, it's still better than the MBP 13'' when you compare it spec-for-spec.

Then why do most major computer manufacturers make both business and consumer class hardware?

The actual performance of business class hardware has less variance below listed spec due to higher quality control during manufacturing. This applies to all brands.

 

[balamw]

Like maflynn I'm in the use the OS that supports your apps best camp.

I'm a Mac because the OS and apps fit 90% of what I want/need to do at home.

I still give SL a slight edge over W7. Aero Peek I like, but certain other features like Aero Snap gets in my way more often than not.

I've only been running Lion for a short while now on one of my Macs (2009 MBP) and it's just wonderful for web stuff (IMHO, YMMV). Safari seems to be super snappy and I can get around with gestures most easily.

And, for me, this is the main differentiator. I've never met a notebook pointing device I really liked until the glass Magic Trackpads. Unfortunately, the W7 drivers for them are not so good and the OS/app support for the advanced features are minimal under Windows.

B

 

[maflynn]

I was ironically hoping you said that, so I could ask you this: what makes you use a Mac then, instead of Windows? Apple Software is usually what's considered to be the main reason for people to pay higher for lower hardware.

Because for me, OSX/Macs handle most of my needs. I use windows for other tasks that it does better.

I'm not married to a platform, be it windows or Mac. Rather, I find the best solution for my problem and in some cases that's windows and in others its Mac.

I've been known to use Fedora on occasion as well

 

[VitaminD]

I'm an owner of both Macs and PCs.

If you plan on doing music editing, I'd go with the Mac for 2 reasons. Mac's have a better line in input and don't suffer latency issues in OS X that most PCs do in Windows Vista/7. Those latency issues can be a real bugaboo when it comes to music production. Mostly caused by various Windows drivers. In my case, the USB driver that comes with Windows seems to cause the periodic latency issues - skipping, pops, etc. There are work arounds to fix it, but it can be a time consuming process of trial and error to lock it down.

I don't find OS X any easier to use than Windows 7. Windows has come a long way. But, for full disclosure sake, I do have some add-ons such as RocketDock on my Windows machines that make it more Mac OS X-like.

Moreover, I haven't had any issues (warranty claim, viruses, etc.) with my Windows machines and they have held up well (knock on wood) over the years. But I do find the build quality of the Macs I own to be much better as far as materials and finish are concerned. keyboards, body, screen, sound, ports, etc., all seem better built/spec'd on the Macs.

Is it worth paying the extra coin? In my opinion, for the most part, yes. Will you end up with buyer's remorse? Highly doubtful unless you need a certain interface (eSATA for instance) or you like user accessibility for upgrades(HDD - you can but you have to use fan control software AFAIK). Given that a Mac can also run Windows, via Bootcamp or VM(Parallel's or VMWare), you can't go wrong. Though, you may have to spend more coin to do that.

Good luck in your decision. Best wishes on your final choice.

 

[Blues003]

Because for me, OSX/Macs handle most of my needs. I use windows for other tasks that it does better.

I'm not married to a platform, be it windows or Mac. Rather, I find the best solution for my problem and in some cases that's windows and in others its Mac.

I've been known to use Fedora on occasion as well

That looks like a mature/wise decision. Well, considering the uses and needs I said earlier, what would you recommend then?

 

[maflynn]

That looks like a mature/wise decision. Well, considering the uses and needs I said earlier, what would you recommend then?

Mature/wise I'm not so sure about

As for which makes the most sense for you. I think apple laptops are the best out there. I'd lean towards them and then if you find you need to run windows you can do that either in boot camp, or in vmware.

It really depends on your software needs and what you're looking to do. If you only play games then it makes little sense to drop a lot of money on a MBP. Alienware would be a better option. My point is what do you need to do with it.

Regards.

 

[balamw]

I've been known to use Fedora on occasion as well

Ubuntu for me.

That looks like a mature/wise decision. Well, considering the uses and needs I said earlier, what would you recommend then?

Browsing, Video-watching, Music-LIstening, Office-working, music-editing, photoshopping, and light gaming.

Define light gaming? This is probably the one place where there would actually be a potential difference. For everything else it's a wash and is a matter of personal preference and budgets. (You can spend a lot less on a PC than a Mac, but the Mac will often outperform similarly priced notebooks under Windows).

When I came back to the Mac ~6 years ago the decision was no longer "Why get a Mac" it became "Why not get a Mac".

B

 

[munkery]

Don't forget about being a med student!

Regardless of which platform you decide to go with, I recommend R as an alternative to SPSS.

http://www.r-project.org/

Combined with the Rcmdr GUI it is a competent free alternative to SPSS.

http://socserv.socsci.mcmaster.ca/jfox/Misc/Rcmdr/

It can import SPSS and other statistical analysis software data sets.

Anything lacking in the R GUI can be done via command line.

 

[Damers]

Thanks for your input.
My needs are listed above: Browsing, Video-watching, Music-LIstening, Office-working, music-editing, photoshopping, and light gaming. Regardless of what class of laptop the ASUS is or not, it's still better than the MBP 13'' when you compare it spec-for-spec.

Have you ever considered a linux distro? Ubuntu has made great strides since it's release, now a very stable well represented OS. You can dual boot along side Win 7 (it's not hard, really) and get the same virus free environment as a mac. It's free, all the software is free (and it doesn't suck) and it's no longer a pain is the arse to maintain. Linux kernals support TRIM for SSD's while Lion doesn't natively support them yet.

If you haven't tried Lion yet, go into a apple store (if you can) and try it. Currently, Lion is a disaster for those of us who are power users. If you've never had the chance to work with SL you won't know what your missing with Lion so have at it. Personally I have no plans on switching to Lion anytime soon, I need 32 bit support for apps required for my work. Despite the hyperbolic remarks you'll read here, Lion has seemed to polarize the mac community, for worse.

I'm currently on my third apple laptop product and have been questioning my decision on my most recent purchase, a 2010 MBP. The laptop is awesome (stable OS, built like a brick ****** house) but for my needs I could have had a PC laptop and dual booted a linux distro and saved a bunch of cash. Yet everytime it comes time to buy a new laptop I seem to be drawn to apple. Maybe I'm brainwashed, I hope I'm not a closet fanboy, but few pc's actually rival apple hardware and OS.

 

[Blues003]

Mature/wise I'm not so sure about

As for which makes the most sense for you. I think apple laptops are the best out there. I'd lean towards them and then if you find you need to run windows you can do that either in boot camp, or in vmware.

It really depends on your software needs and what you're looking to do. If you only play games then it makes little sense to drop a lot of money on a MBP. Alienware would be a better option. My point is what do you need to do with it.

Regards.

Most of my time I browse forums, youtube, chat, and work on/study Office documents or PDF files for large periods of time. Being a MedStudent implies having big workloads. Hence, I'd enjoy a light and reliable laptop with good battery life so I can take it to faculty and use it whenever I have spare time.

On occasion, I like to watch some TV Shows, but that is nothing of too much importance. It is mainly done on holiday season, actually.

Even less occasionally, I game. My gaming needs are nowhere near what I'd call intensive. Most of it is GBA emulation, and sometimes Nintendo DS emulation. However, I do not rest aside the idea of eventually trying out PS1/PS2 emulation (MBPs with the Nvidea 320m do it just fine), or some computer-based games (like COD; I have no issues with running it on the lowest settings). As I said, nothing too intensive.

Finally, there are 2 activities I currently do not perform due to limitations of my current laptop, but would like to learn and try out: Photoshop and Music Editing. I am also curious in learning about the Linux OSs and possibly trying them out as well.

If it is important to the question as well, I'd eventually like to have an iPhone (and/or possibly and iPad?)

----------

Ubuntu for me.





Define light gaming? This is probably the one place where there would actually be a potential difference. For everything else it's a wash and is a matter of personal preference and budgets. (You can spend a lot less on a PC than a Mac, but the Mac will often outperform similarly priced notebooks under Windows).

When I came back to the Mac ~6 years ago the decision was no longer "Why get a Mac" it became "Why not get a Mac".

B

My needs have just been posted in detail above

Have you ever considered a linux distro? Ubuntu has made great strides since it's release, now a very stable well represented OS. You can dual boot along side Win 7 (it's not hard, really) and get the same virus free environment as a mac. It's free, all the software is free (and it doesn't suck) and it's no longer a pain is the arse to maintain. Linux kernals support TRIM for SSD's while Lion doesn't natively support them yet.

If you haven't tried Lion yet, go into a apple store (if you can) and try it. Currently, Lion is a disaster for those of us who are power users. If you've never had the chance to work with SL you won't know what your missing with Lion so have at it. Personally I have no plans on switching to Lion anytime soon, I need 32 bit support for apps required for my work. Despite the hyperbolic remarks you'll read here, Lion has seemed to polarize the mac community, for worse.

I'm currently on my third apple laptop product and have been questioning my decision on my most recent purcahse, a 2010 MBP. The laptop is awesome (stable OS, built like a brick ****** house) but for my needs I could have had a PC laptop and dual booted a linux distro and saved a bunch of cash. Yet everytime it comes time to buy a new laptop I seem to be drawn to apple. Maybe I'm brainwashed, I hope I'm not a closet fanboy, but few pc's actually rival apple hardward and OS.

I like the idea of learning about Ubuntu, but I am not so knowledgeable yet, and I will definetly not be learning about it that fast. I want to learn how to use it, but it'll be a slow, gradual process. As such, it does not end up affecting my buying decision by that much.

As for Lion, I suppose one could always install Snow Leopard?

 

[munkery]

This is a simplified set of instructions to dual boot Ubuntu with Windows:

1) GParted via live disk (http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php)
2) Install Windows in one partition
3) Install Ubuntu in other partition (http://www.ubuntu.com/)
4) Install bootloader utility such as EasyBCD (http://neosmart.net/dl.php?id=1)

 

[Damers]

I like the idea of learning about Ubuntu, but I am not so knowledgeable yet, and I will definetly not be learning about it that fast. I want to learn how to use it, but it'll be a slow, gradual process. As such, it does not end up affecting my buying decision by that much.

As for Lion, I suppose one could always install Snow Leopard?

If you purchase a newer MBP I don't think you can install SL.

Learning Ubuntu isn't like learning particle physics, they've made it very user friendly and now you don't even need to open a terminal window if you don't want. I have a copy of Ubuntu running on the wife's laptop and she's fine with it. You can burn a 'live' CD and try the OS out without installing if you want too.

ehhh... I swear I don't work for Ubuntu, didn't mean for this to come off as an advertisement either.

Frankly. Most of what you want to do is doable on an iPad (with the exception of the gaming). Maybe you should consider getting that first?

This is a really good point as well. You can get cases that have built in external keyboards. And +1 for me referencing a post from the future.

 

[balamw]

Even less occasionally, I game. My gaming needs are nowhere near what I'd call intensive. Most of it is GBA emulation, and sometimes Nintendo DS emulation. However, I do not rest aside the idea of eventually trying out PS1/PS2 emulation (MBPs with the Nvidea 320m do it just fine), or some computer-based games (like COD; I have no issues with running it on the lowest settings). As I said, nothing too intensive.

The GBA/DS emulators for OS X are in a bad state. Though for me, this is something that doesn't make much sense. I even find playing many GBA games to be unsatisfying on a DS lite, much less a PC. The buttons just aren't where they are supposed to be.

If it is important to the question as well, I'd eventually like to have an iPhone (and/or possibly and iPad?)

This will push you away from Linux. Though one iOS 5 is released and the iDevices become more free of their iTunes "hosts" this may change.

Frankly. Most of what you want to do is doable on an iPad (with the exception of the gaming). Maybe you should consider getting that first?

B

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This is a simplified set of instructions to dual boot Ubuntu with Windows

How is that any easier than Wubi? http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/windows-installer or running Ubuntu in Virtualbox/VMWare/Parallels?

B

 

[Blues003]

The GBA/DS emulators for OS X are in a bad state. Though for me, this is something that doesn't make much sense. I even find playing many GBA games to be unsatisfying on a DS lite, much less a PC. The buttons just aren't where they are supposed to be.

As said, gaming is a really minor part of my needs...

Frankly. Most of what you want to do is doable on an iPad (with the exception of the gaming). Maybe you should consider getting that first?

Not with the huge ammount of Office files I have to create! I even have to write up my Master's Degree's Monography next year. Nor would the iPad fit serious musical editing.

 

[munkery]

How is that any easier than Wubi? http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/windows-installer or running Ubuntu in Virtualbox/VMWare/Parallels?

Isn't Wubi a type of virtualization? As well as those other suggestions?

You get better performance via dual booting than virtualization.

Just providing options to the OP.

 

[balamw]

Isn't Wubi a type of virtualization?

No virtualization in Wubi, yes in the others. It's just a loopback filesystem that lives in a disk image within the NTFS file system and ties in to the standard Windows Boot Loader instead of forcing grub or LILO in the mix.

Also, Virtualization isn't what it used to be. With today's multi-core processors with VT extensions you can get near native performance to everything but graphics.

B

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As said, gaming is a really minor part of my needs...

Just my $0.02.

Not with the huge ammount of Office files I have to create! I even have to write up my Master's Degree's Monography next year. Nor would the iPad fit serious musical editing.

Again, define serious music editing. Your own music? Existing WAV/MP3s? ... You might be surprised as to what the iPad can do.

I certainly wouldn't use it without a separate KB for document creation, but it is definitely more capable than the Linux machine I wrote my doctoral dissertation on. So it should handle your Master's.

B

 

[munkery]

No virtualization in Wubi, yes in the others. It's just a loopback filesystem that lives in a disk image within the NTFS file system and ties in to the standard Windows Boot Loader instead of forcing grub or LILO in the mix.

Very cool but I thought it did impose some limitations?

Also, Virtualization isn't what it used to be. With today's multi-core processors with VT extensions you can get near native performance to everything but graphics.

Still running two OSes at once reducing the resources available to each OS.

Obviously, that can have benefits as well.

 

[handel30]

Morning.
I would, as such, like to know if you think OS X would make the price difference worth it, and if that is the case, why.

Regards,

Blues003

For me, it's the quality of the overall experience that makes apple worth the extra cost. I still have an ibook from 1999 that works pefectly and has never needed fixing. After working with windows for years, I decided to try os x again. I recently bought a brand new macbook and am overjoyed with it. Both Snow Leopard and Lion are a pleasure.